Official Freewing 90mm F-4 Phantom II Thread

[davegee]

Eventually, I recommend that you use at least a 6S 6000 mah battery with a decent C rating. I'm using either an HRB 6000 50C or even better an SMC 6200 40C (currently out of stock). The HRB tests out around 25C while the SMC is a true 40C, both weighing about 820gr. Tried an Admiral 6000 50C pro (tested out at more like 20C) and it did not perform as well. This should give you almost 4 minutes of flight time, more than enough to have some fun with. I think the 5000 will limit you to just under 3 minutes. I've used a 6000 weighing 874 gr and it still flew great, so one of these days I'm going to try my SMC 8100 mah that I fly exclusively in the F-16 (for over 5 minutes flight time) to see how it flies. It's weight is only 904 gr, so I doubt the extra 30 gr over the heavy 6000 will be an issue. My CG is around 195 mm, slightly aft of the recommended, but this is one of the few birds that I don't mind flying more nose heavy.

I'm with you on that one, Hugh. I've kept to the 5000 6S batteries for years because they were so interchangeable with the other airplanes I fly, both for props and jets. Never used anything higher than that, but if the F-4 works out, I'll probably invest in one of the larger batteries that you mention for it. I'm ok with 3 minute flights for the jets, but 4 minutes would be better.

[Hugh Wiedman]

I’m nearing the end of my 6s Phantom project. I have three of the SMC 6200’’s, and I also have a single SMC 8100. I would be very interested to see how well the F-4 would handle the 8100... I flew the 8100 in my Freewing 90mm F-18 and didn’t care much for how it handled with the larger pack.

I'm definitely going to try the 8100 sometime, hopefully soon. It's usually windy and gusty with strong crosswinds here this time of year so for now, I'm sticking with the 6200 until the summer conditions of lighter winds directly down the runway become more the norm. So far, the only EDF that "likes" the 8100 is my F-16 (which surprised the hell out of me), but think the 12 blade inrunner is the driving force behind that. Since I've upgrade all my EDF's to that 12 blade, I'm thinking the F-4 will also be a good candidate (agree with you that my F-18, even with the same fan, not so much). I'll definitely let you know how it goes as soon as I grow a pair and try it! I only have 4 of the 8100's and usually take the F-16 with either of my F-4's (and don't like to charge at the field), so the F-16 tends to eat up those 4 each time out before the F-4 get's a chance.

[flyinhigh042]

Eventually, I recommend that you use at least a 6S 6000 mah battery with a decent C rating. I'm using either an HRB 6000 50C or even better an SMC 6200 40C (currently out of stock). The HRB tests out around 25C while the SMC is a true 40C, both weighing about 820gr. Tried an Admiral 6000 50C pro (tested out at more like 20C) and it did not perform as well. This should give you almost 4 minutes of flight time, more than enough to have some fun with. I think the 5000 will limit you to just under 3 minutes. I've used a 6000 weighing 874 gr and it still flew great, so one of these days I'm going to try my SMC 8100 mah that I fly exclusively in the F-16 (for over 5 minutes flight time) to see how it flies. It's weight is only 904 gr, so I doubt the extra 30 gr over the heavy 6000 will be an issue. My CG is around 195 mm, slightly aft of the recommended, but this is one of the few birds that I don't mind flying more nose heavy.

I’m nearing the end of my 6s Phantom project. I have three of the SMC 6200’’s, and I also have a single SMC 8100. I would be very interested to see how well the F-4 would handle the 8100... I flew the 8100 in my Freewing 90mm F-18 and didn’t care much for how it handled with the larger pack.

[Hugh Wiedman]

For the next flight, I have a brand new 6S 5000 Smart battery that I have flown a few times in my E Flite P-51D. I'll go up for a shorter amount of time, maybe two minutes or so, and then examine the battery to see if it, too, is working too hard. If it is really hot, I may then opt for a new motor and ESC to put on this what has become a practice bird.

Going 8S is a distinct possibility if I get the kinks worked out on my new "practice" bird.

Eventually, I recommend that you use at least a 6S 6000 mah battery with a decent C rating. I'm using either an HRB 6000 50C or even better an SMC 6200 40C (currently out of stock). The HRB tests out around 25C while the SMC is a true 40C, both weighing about 820gr. Tried an Admiral 6000 50C pro (tested out at more like 20C) and it did not perform as well. This should give you almost 4 minutes of flight time, more than enough to have some fun with. I think the 5000 will limit you to just under 3 minutes. I've used a 6000 weighing 874 gr and it still flew great, so one of these days I'm going to try my SMC 8100 mah that I fly exclusively in the F-16 (for over 5 minutes flight time) to see how it flies. It's weight is only 904 gr, so I doubt the extra 30 gr over the heavy 6000 will be an issue. My CG is around 195 mm, slightly aft of the recommended, but this is one of the few birds that I don't mind flying more nose heavy.

[davegee]

Back from a flight with the FMS Hawk,......found a pair of old glasses that stop the plane morphing into two !! Enjoyed it like a "fix" ....might be tempted to get the F4 out weather permitting !!

Good for you! I know exactly what you are talking about with "double vision aircraft" in the sky. I decided once to put on some old glasses that I used to use for full scale airplane flying, but hadn't been checked in years. I just put them on and started flying, and realized that I was seeing two airplanes flying in a very tight formation! I got it down ok, but didn't use those glasses again I can still get away with flying without them, fortunately.

[locharrow]

Back from a flight with the FMS Hawk,......found a pair of old glasses that stop the plane morphing into two !! Enjoyed it like a "fix" ....might be tempted to get the F4 out weather permitting !!

[davegee]

"Suggest you fix it up and fly the snot out of it " That's about the best advice you'll get Dave...Fly it ... and use that info before you put your Sunday Best up in the air. My SB F4 lies on a comfy bed in the spare bedroom and wont be out till I can fly No 1 with my eyes shut (after I get my new glasses!!)

Wise words, Locharrow! This is now going to be my practice plane to really learn and get proficient. I sorta liken it to when you buy a new, shiny car. When you get that First ding in it, it is a disaster! But when you get the second, third and fourth, you just sorta note it and move on. Now that my F-4 has had the gear ripped out of it, slid into the rough, foam-gouging sagebrush and on the asphalt, too, it is now battlescarred and perfect for flying the Snot out of it, with no worries now!

[davegee]

Sounds like a success to me! Getting it down in one piece (sort of) with a fried battery is no small accomplishment. Suggest you fix it up and fly the snot out of it, then if you fall in love with it like some of us did, you may want to get a 2nd and have it Callie-afied. An 8S wouldn't be too shabby either. I've got 2 and the first was sort of my "practice F-4" and the 2nd I did in the Blue Angels scheme. Love 'em both, and the first still looks OK after about 100 flights with the old stock outrunner but a month ago upgraded both to the 12 blade inrunner. Now they are regulars in the rotation, although the Blue Angel tends to get the nod at any event! So I suggest you use and abuse this first one until there's nothing left of it! There is always something to be said for having no fear in flying it, you'll be able to test it's limits and then some without worrying that you'll lose it!

I'm totally on the same page with you, Hugh!! Before the first flight, I must admit I had a bit of trepidation about flying it, even though I have flown these F-4 and other jet planes ok in the past. But now, after these two incidents, I feel like "All right, you, Sumb*tch, you're going to do some flying, and you're gonna fly right!!" Or words to that effect.
I found that the stock stabilizer pitch numbers in mm from the seam were not enough. Per your photos of the position of the stab on your plane, they came out much closer to yours. For instance, with landing flaps, after I had trimmed it out for level flight or maybe just a slight descent, it was about 16mm below the seam when I checked it after landing.
I wasn't aware of a problem with the battery at first, the plane just seemed a bit sluggish to me, but then when I heard the pitch of the motor going lower and it seemed to be laboring, that was a call to get it on the deck Immediately! I don't think I had more than a few seconds of power left when it landed. I think I had the throttle stick full max, and it was basically gliding in. It was that close.

For the next flight, I have a brand new 6S 5000 Smart battery that I have flown a few times in my E Flite P-51D. I'll go up for a shorter amount of time, maybe two minutes or so, and then examine the battery to see if it, too, is working too hard. If it is really hot, I may then opt for a new motor and ESC to put on this what has become a practice bird.

Going 8S is a distinct possibility if I get the kinks worked out on my new "practice" bird.

[locharrow]

"Suggest you fix it up and fly the snot out of it " That's about the best advice you'll get Dave...Fly it ... and use that info before you put your Sunday Best up in the air. My SB F4 lies on a comfy bed in the spare bedroom and wont be out till I can fly No 1 with my eyes shut (after I get my new glasses!!)

[Hugh Wiedman]

The airplane stayed on the runway, and it was just the one main gear plastic mounting block that pulled out on the rollout. I'm gluing it back in with a lot of Epoxy, and will do minimal cosmetic repairs to the underneath for now. I'm now going to fly it again and again to try and get it dialed in. I think I can still make it look almost like new on the underneath parts of it, not that it's so bad. I have a full set of VF-84 graphics coming from Callie, but I think I'll hold on to those to see if this plane survives the testing I will do with it, or possibly get a new one that I can easily get it dialed in for one of my favorite planes to fly, based on the results of these tests.

I possibly could have done a little better job landing that might or might not have kept that gear mounting block from coming out, but it was a real emergency, I wasn't sure if the battery would hold out long enough to get it on the ground! And of course, a big crosswind came up at the same time, so I had that to deal with, as well.

Sounds like a success to me! Getting it down in one piece (sort of) with a fried battery is no small accomplishment. Suggest you fix it up and fly the snot out of it, then if you fall in love with it like some of us did, you may want to get a 2nd and have it Callie-afied. An 8S wouldn't be too shabby either. I've got 2 and the first was sort of my "practice F-4" and the 2nd I did in the Blue Angels scheme. Love 'em both, and the first still looks OK after about 100 flights with the old stock outrunner but a month ago upgraded both to the 12 blade inrunner. Now they are regulars in the rotation, although the Blue Angel tends to get the nod at any event! So I suggest you use and abuse this first one until there's nothing left of it! There is always something to be said for having no fear in flying it, you'll be able to test it's limits and then some without worrying that you'll lose it!

[davegee]

Hi Davegee....Semi-success!!!! Smart move getting it down fast.
-GG

The airplane stayed on the runway, and it was just the one main gear plastic mounting block that pulled out on the rollout. I'm gluing it back in with a lot of Epoxy, and will do minimal cosmetic repairs to the underneath for now. I'm now going to fly it again and again to try and get it dialed in. I think I can still make it look almost like new on the underneath parts of it, not that it's so bad. I have a full set of VF-84 graphics coming from Callie, but I think I'll hold on to those to see if this plane survives the testing I will do with it, or possibly get a new one that I can easily get it dialed in for one of my favorite planes to fly, based on the results of these tests.

I possibly could have done a little better job landing that might or might not have kept that gear mounting block from coming out, but it was a real emergency, I wasn't sure if the battery would hold out long enough to get it on the ground! And of course, a big crosswind came up at the same time, so I had that to deal with, as well.

[GliderGuy]

Hi Davegee....Semi-success!!!! Smart move getting it down fast.
-GG

[davegee]

Did my second "maiden" of my F-4 Freewing plane today. This time I DID get off the ground ok. Had to add several clicks of up elevator with the flaps set at the takeoff flap setting, but no big deal. Then brought the flaps up, a little up trim required, and then full flaps, again a bit of up trim required. Having Flight Modes in (Thanks, Hugh!) really helped out in each flight regime for trimming.

I did notice some "sagging" in the performance, and started hearing the jet motor sound pitch decreasing. I hadn't been up 3 minutes, but I knew the plane was in trouble. So I brought it in as quickly as possible, and did land it ok, although the gear mounts that I reglued in Gorilla glue did pull out, but mostly cosmetic damage to the bottom of the fuselage again. The nose gear hung in there tough, no problems with it.

The battery was totally fried. It was an Admiral 6S 5000 that I've had for a few years, but it just died right in the airplane. It had totally puffed out, bigger than I've ever seen a battery do.

So, I'm assessing whether to try and fix this plane again, or maybe part it out and buy a new one, not an ARF, but one that is totally ready to go, maybe even an 8S set up. I'll give myself some time to review my options, maybe go with a different plane altogether, possibly.

davegee

[GliderGuy]

Always something! You will get some Confirmations from these two recent posts....

https://www.hobbysquawk.com/forum/rc...830#post309830

See tip #2 in the below post.
https://www.hobbysquawk.com/forum/rc...836#post309836

Good Job on the repair, and good luck on the re-maiden.

-GG

[davegee]

Sometimes looks good or feels good doesn’t mean “good”.

I had the elevator horn of the P-38 come loose...and it hand tested to be firmly glued out of the box.

A lesson to be learned the hard way by us all...put a critical eye to EVERYTHING and strengthen to suit “your” evaluation / determination. You are the final QC. The P-38 horn got a layer of plywood put on it after I got it down by using the flaps for pitch control.

The F-4 elevator push rod and clevis and ball connector all need replacement with stronger hardware. RF chokes need to be added to the ESC wiring, etc. Such is the nature of the hobby.

-GG

Good points. I've learned a lot from this experience. On the plus side, I patched and repainted the bottom half of the F-4 this morning, and I'll start going through the tests again, just as before. However, This time, I Will check those set screws on the landing gear!!

Depending on the results of all those tests, weather permitting, I should be able to "redo" the maiden in the next several days!

Speaking of P-38s, I had a Flightline P-38, just loved it. On one flight, everything was going fine when one of the blades on one of the motors suddenly departed and the airplane started rolling immediately towards the "dead engine," not to mention a heck of a lot of vibration. This was something I probably couldn't have predicted, but I immediately chopped the power and had enough glide at idle power to put it down for a soft touchdown gear up in the grass off the runway. Virtually no damage. I was lucky. But with this latest event with my F-4, I'm thinking I should check propeller blades on my prop warbirds more often to see if there are any minute cracks in the blades or housing. There's always something!!

[GliderGuy]

Sometimes looks good or feels good doesn’t mean “good”.

I had the elevator horn of the P-38 come loose...and it hand tested to be firmly glued out of the box.

A lesson to be learned the hard way by us all...put a critical eye to EVERYTHING and strengthen to suit “your” evaluation / determination. You are the final QC. The P-38 horn got a layer of plywood put on it after I got it down by using the flaps for pitch control.

The F-4 elevator push rod and clevis and ball connector all need replacement with stronger hardware. RF chokes need to be added to the ESC wiring, etc. Such is the nature of the hobby.

-GG

[davegee]

Dave, sorry about the maiden. While I have had, heard of, loose, or not tight enough struts it's rare... Good to hear your positive about it. The F-4 is a worthy plane.

Sh*t happens, I guess. We all make mistakes in life, I know I sure have. For whatever reason, that person assembling my plane in China loosely secured the set screws so when you tugged on the gear, or even with several taxi tests and turns I did on the ground to check everything was ready to go, I felt it was all ready for the maiden this morning, Those gear let loose at the worst possible time just prior to takeoff. I'm lucky that I was able to get it down on the ground with as little damage as I did. It will fly again!

[davegee]

DG, then it definitely sounds like the set screws, good to know that the Aviation Safety Board has determined the cause! Another episode of Air Disasters with a potentially happy ending, at least there were no fatalities (as in a totaled F4). At least that's a simple fix to cure the problem.

I've had some success today on the repair to the F-4. I've installed the nose gear retract from my old SEA F-4, and also the nose gear landing gear door. The retracts are back in place now, and I guess in theory, I could fly tomorrow. But I'm trying to make all the cosmetic fixes to all the minor damage to the airplane, and will continue on that tomorrow. I hope to try the maiden again, next week. I guess the maiden actually worked a little today, I think it attained an altitude of 3 feet before it came crashing down!

I'm upset with Motion for sending me a product that was defective, and one that I normally would never have checked with the wrench, as it felt secure, but wasn't. But I guess it's part my fault too, for not checking it myself, although I've Never had an issue with any of my many foamies over the years with loose set screws in that area before. But I am aware of that now, and will always check Every connection in the airplane. It's good all of us do the same, or suffer the consequences if you don't.

Cheers

Davegee

[Hugh Wiedman]

Hi Hugh: I'm fairly confident that it was the set screws installed at the factory that were not fully tightened. When I recovered the aircraft to inspect it, both pins for each main gear had pulled out, and when I put them back in the holes again, they were totally loose in there, e.g., the set screws were not fully in place. The problem didn't manifest itself until near takeoff speed when one or both started moving in its mount like a castering tailwheel that hasn't been locked in place and is now swerving all over the place. If I had had more runway, I could and would have aborted even then, and used the brakes to come to an uneventful stop to then discover the problem. But per the field conditions just outside the runway bounds, I wasn't comfortable doing that, for fear of totally messing up my plane in the rough sagebrush and gopher holes.

Thanks for your helpful tips and comments.

Davegee

DG, then it definitely sounds like the set screws, good to know that the Aviation Safety Board has determined the cause! Another episode of Air Disasters with a potentially happy ending, at least there were no fatalities (as in a totaled F4). At least that's a simple fix to cure the problem.

[Evan D]

Dave, sorry about the maiden. While I have had, heard of, loose, or not tight enough struts it's rare... Good to hear your positive about it. The F-4 is a worthy plane.