New FMS/Eflite Su-30 coming soon

[xviper]

Never mind - I found it. Got them from Banggood (wife sill thinks this is a porno site...)

FMS 70mm 12b 3060-1900kv's...

Hoping for the best - 2.7kg thrust est...

They take a long time to get to you. You're better off buying them from RC Castle.

[xviper]

For a 90mm swap-out, does anyone have an opinion of this one? FMS 90mm Metal 12 Blade EDF Ducted Fan with 6S 4068-KV1850 Inrunner

I'm thinking about an upgrade for my FW F15 and / or F22....

Thoughts?

You should ask this question in their appropriate threads. But for those planes, you're better off going to 8s or to a custom 6s unit. Check out the thrust specs on the stock units and that unit to see you won't get that much more thrust. An 8s will get you another 1kg of thrust.
You can find those specs at RC Castle.

[jasmith41]

They only took a couple of weeks to get. They're already in the bird and ready to go...

It's the ones I've ordered on ebay that take a while - approx 3-4 weeks. I got the 80mm one i ordered on there and a day or two later i ordered a 90mm version, but it's due in tomorrow...

Horizon had the 80mm ones too, so i ordered 2 from them for the Mig-29 per Hugh's recommendation. He suggested putting the OEM ones from the MIG-29 in the A10, so i may do that as well.

Any thoughts on Schubeler other than they're expensive? I was looking at getting one of their 90mm ones for either the F15 or the F22...

[xviper]

No experience with Schubeler.

[jasmith41]

No experience with Schubeler.

The pioneer catches all the arrows...🤣

[Hugh Wiedman]

Got out yesterday with an odd collection of 5 aircraft, including the maiden of the 62" Extreme Flight-Aces High FW 190 "Red Tulip" (detailed in "What did you fly today thread") and the now "defunct" SU-30 among others. I've been planning on doing the 2 battery mod radfordc "pioneered" but just haven't had the heart to cut out the speed brake yet, but was resigned to the idea that it had to happen one day. I really like the way the speed brake helps slow it down on landing (and looks too cool) and always fly it with full ordinance which helps as well on an SMC 6200 for just over 3 minutes. Get it up, fly it a few laps and 1-2 aerobatics, and it's time to land, and quickly I might add!!!

Then I got to thinking (always a bad idea in my case), and if I'm not mistaken, I remember he was using 2 HRB 4000's which weigh about 1190 gr (please correct me if I'm wrong). Well, I actually fly my 90mm F-16 (with the 12 blade inrunner) on an SMC 8100 20 C for 5 minutes of aggressive maneuvers (actual tested C is 24C-still higher than most and the same tested C of my HRB 6000's). The SMC weighs 903 gr, but I needed to add 5 ounces, or 140 gr of weight in the tail of the SU-30 (none to the F-16 thankfully) to get it to balance at 150mm. So total weight for me is 1043 gr, still about 150 gr less than radfordc has with the 2 4000's, and I get to keep the speed break. In theory, that should work (said the just released mental patient ). Well after 5 flights yesterday, I'm taking the position that it was a success. Easily got 4 minutes of flight time, and frankly, with those FMS 70mm fans, it got off our thick grass (my biggest issue with these heavy jets-but did put a larger nose wheel on even before changing fans which works fabulously) in almost the same distance and seemed to me to fly just as well as it does on a lighter battery (but then I drive a truck and not a Porsche, so what do I know). I don't know why I didn't think of this earlier, except I did try the Hobbystar 8000 (100C not even close-18C) but that was with the E-Flight 70mm "rubber band" fans and it flew like and had no vertical (kind of like it had with any other pack), so I blocked the idea out of using my SMC 8100's (until I did some weight calculations of using 2 batteries), which are a higher actual C than the Hobbystars (those are now swimming with the fishes). SMC is also coming out with HV graphene packs of 7700mah (@25.2 volts), but you can charge to 26.1 volts, so if I can reprogram the ESC and cut off points, I'll get even longer flight times with less weight. I suspect, but don't have the electrical knowledge to know for sure so just a gut feeling, that radfordc's twin 4000's each powering only one fan will give longer flight times than a single 8100 being sucked down by 2 fans, but for now I'm going to go with it for a while. Please, stop me from thinking or this planet is doomed! Now I need to just fly the heck out of it and learn that it doesn't need to be flown at max throttle-actually cruises nicely at 50-60% throttle, kind of like my Winnebago!



Guess which one has an issue with flight time!

[jasmith41]

Hugh, what did i miss - what happened to the SU...?

[radfordc]

SMC is also coming out with HV graphene packs of 7700mah (@25.2 volts), but you can charge to 26.1 volts, so if I can reprogram the ESC and cut off points, I'll get even longer flight times with less weight. I suspect, but don't have the electrical knowledge to know for sure so just a gut feeling, that radfordc's twin 4000's each powering only one fan will give longer flight times than a single 8100 being sucked down by 2 fans, but for now I'm going to go with it for a while.

Hugh, sounds like a good plan. If I fly easy I can stay up for over six minutes. Flying hard drops that down to 4-4:30.

The only issue I see with using one 8000 pack is that all the current for two fans goes through one EC-5 connector. When I was doing that my connector got smoking hot so I'm sure there must have been some significant power loss there.

[Hugh Wiedman]

Hugh, sounds like a good plan. If I fly easy I can stay up for over six minutes. Flying hard drops that down to 4-4:30.

The only issue I see with using one 8000 pack is that all the current for two fans goes through one EC-5 connector. When I was doing that my connector got smoking hot so I'm sure there must have been some significant power loss there.

Makes sense. I'm sure that using 2 batteries is much more efficient than the one 8100. I'll fly it like this for a while and if I'm not completely happy, I'll do the "radfordc" mod. Just don't have any decent 6S 4000's and I'm not looking forward to adding to my already overblown battery inventory. Before I tried this latest "experiment", I was planning on measuring the speed brake bay to see if I could get an SMC 4500 in there. I think they would being 46X46X141 and weighing 588 gr each which would put me at the same battery weight you have. Those I do have and fly them in my Extreme Flight 3D planes, but got lazy and went with the big boy for now.

[InTheTubeDeep]

Got out yesterday with an odd collection of 5 aircraft, including the maiden of the 62" Extreme Flight-Aces High FW 190 "Red Tulip" (detailed in "What did you fly today thread") and the now "defunct" SU-30 among others. I've been planning on doing the 2 battery mod radfordc "pioneered" but just haven't had the heart to cut out the speed brake yet, but was resigned to the idea that it had to happen one day. I really like the way the speed brake helps slow it down on landing (and looks too cool) and always fly it with full ordinance which helps as well on an SMC 6200 for just over 3 minutes. Get it up, fly it a few laps and 1-2 aerobatics, and it's time to land, and quickly I might add!!!

Then I got to thinking (always a bad idea in my case), and if I'm not mistaken, I remember he was using 2 HRB 4000's which weigh about 1190 gr (please correct me if I'm wrong). Well, I actually fly my 90mm F-16 (with the 12 blade inrunner) on an SMC 8100 20 C for 5 minutes of aggressive maneuvers (actual tested C is 24C-still higher than most and the same tested C of my HRB 6000's). The SMC weighs 903 gr, but I needed to add 5 ounces, or 140 gr of weight in the tail of the SU-30 (none to the F-16 thankfully) to get it to balance at 150mm. So total weight for me is 1043 gr, still about 150 gr less than radfordc has with the 2 4000's, and I get to keep the speed break. In theory, that should work (said the just released mental patient ). Well after 5 flights yesterday, I'm taking the position that it was a success. Easily got 4 minutes of flight time, and frankly, with those FMS 70mm fans, it got off our thick grass (my biggest issue with these heavy jets-but did put a larger nose wheel on even before changing fans which works fabulously) in almost the same distance and seemed to me to fly just as well as it does on a lighter battery (but then I drive a truck and not a Porsche, so what do I know). I don't know why I didn't think of this earlier, except I did try the Hobbystar 8000 (100C not even close-18C) but that was with the E-Flight 70mm "rubber band" fans and it flew like and had no vertical (kind of like it had with any other pack), so I blocked the idea out of using my SMC 8100's (until I did some weight calculations of using 2 batteries), which are a higher actual C than the Hobbystars (those are now swimming with the fishes). SMC is also coming out with HV graphene packs of 7700mah (@25.2 volts), but you can charge to 26.1 volts, so if I can reprogram the ESC and cut off points, I'll get even longer flight times with less weight. I suspect, but don't have the electrical knowledge to know for sure so just a gut feeling, that radfordc's twin 4000's each powering only one fan will give longer flight times than a single 8100 being sucked down by 2 fans, but for now I'm going to go with it for a while. Please, stop me from thinking or this planet is doomed! Now I need to just fly the heck out of it and learn that it doesn't need to be flown at max throttle-actually cruises nicely at 50-60% throttle, kind of like my Winnebago!



Guess which one has an issue with flight time!

Whoooaaaah whats the huge Su27 in Ukraine livery??? at first look I thought the Su30 was the new Xfly twin 50 painted like the EF Su30!! I've been Tinkercad'ing with the Airbrake Batt bay design, I'm bombed with other stuff so its a slog, but I will get it done eventually and will use 2 x SMC 6s 4500s. I'll have a few extra LED Blue Su30 Burner's for sale next week if any of you Suu30 pilots are interested, here is a grab of my Alenka on first Blue Burner test (secret mission since Alenka is still sanctioned by wife) Hugh has filled me in on the FW 90mm F18, I just got the Blue Angels version !

[Hugh Wiedman]

Whoooaaaah whats the huge Su27 in Ukraine livery??? at first look I thought the Su30 was the new Xfly twin 50 painted like the EF Su30!! I've been Tinkercad'ing with the Airbrake Batt bay design, I'm bombed with other stuff so its a slog, but I will get it done eventually and will use 2 x SMC 6s 4500s. I'll have a few extra LED Blue Su30 Burner's for sale next week if any of you Suu30 pilots are interested, here is a grab of my Alenka on first Blue Burner test (secret mission since Alenka is still sanctioned by wife) Hugh has filled me in on the FW 90mm F18, I just got the Blue Angels version !

Great photos of Alenka! Love your blue burners, possibly the correct color for your location?

Anyway, the Su27 was a custom turbine job by one of our members for another member. Out of about 400 members in our club, the majority fly either large scale gas or turbines, and we've got our fair share of fairly well known pilots/designers/manufacturers. Several of our group are multiple top gun winners as well. Sometimes it's like going to an airshow to see the incredible turbines show up with guys like Pablo Fernandez (Elite AeroSports) who's probably the top 3D jet pilot in the world (and a hell of a nice guy) and creator of all kinds of jets you see at every major event and others like Marvin Alvarez (MarvinF14 on You Tube if you want to see some of his incredible work) and his father who custom paint/design incredible turbines for clients all over the world and guys with so much money/time on their hands they show up with a new $20,000 jet every month. Sometimes those of us in the minority flying "electric" models feel like Hillbillies showing up at a swanky party in Beverly Hills!

As I told you before, I'm really interested in your speed brake/battery bay mod with the 2 SMC 4500's, so when you finish, I want all the details, including exactly how you modified the bay (photos and idiot proof instructions, obviously for a idiot), any clever methods you use to "latch" the speed brake cover and your data on flight performance and time. radfordc has already convinced me 95% to ultimately follow his lead and drop the single SMC 8100, but you using the battery I would use would push me out of the plane (a reference to my first parachute jump many years ago before they ruined it with tandems).

[InTheTubeDeep]

Thanks Hugh- the airbake batt bay will consist of 2 moving parts, the airbrake will remain stock, the bay will be hogged out a bit and a 'cover plate' will have a clip lock, when opened will expose the bigger batt bay for easy removal/insert of SMC 4500. Gonna take me a month I reckon to get a working prototype. For all you Su30 pilots I 3DP a replacement Nose gear Retract base, link for Classifieds- I made 2 versions one stock, other with a built in shim to lower nose wheel when retracted so gear doors do not hit it

https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...P#post49272111

[Hugh Wiedman]

Thanks Hugh- the airbake batt bay will consist of 2 moving parts, the airbrake will remain stock, the bay will be hogged out a bit and a 'cover plate' will have a clip lock, when opened will expose the bigger batt bay for easy removal/insert of SMC 4500. Gonna take me a month I reckon to get a working prototype. For all you Su30 pilots I 3DP a replacement Nose gear Retract base, link for Classifieds- I made 2 versions one stock, other with a built in shim to lower nose wheel when retracted so gear doors do not hit it

https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...P#post49272111

OMG, you're doing this and ending up with the air brake still operational? You're a genius. That's all that's been holding me back, losing the air brake. If this can be done with it still functional, you need to be the head of "Skunk Works"! Now I gotta have it. I'm sending you my bird, COD of course, although when your finished doing mine, I'll consider paying half the return shipping! Hell, for that I'd drive it cross country to you! You've just earned yourself a new "pain in the drain" as I'm going to be all over you till you get it just right for consumer consumption. And lets keep this just between us, no need to let all those other frustrated SU owners horn in on this breakthrough. OUTSTANDING!!!! Haven't been this excited since I made my first successful RC landing (and that was finally just last week).

[Hugh Wiedman]

So I think I've answered my own question on whether an 8100mah battery performs as well as 2 4000mah batteries. After 15 "test" flights with my SMC 8100, I'd have to say, based upon radfordc reports, that the optimum set-up must be 2 batteries instead of 1.

The facts as I know them:
1) Both of us are flying at a balance point of 150mm and the weight of 2 4000's was about 1190 gr vs the single battery plus lead in the tail to get to 150mm weighed only 1040 gr.
2) Flight time on 2 batteries is 4:00 hard flying, and 6:00 or more just cruising
3) On 1 8100 battery got to 4:00 of lazy flying and at the pits the pack was at 48% remaining. That sounds OK, but here's the rest of the story:

I've got in-flight battery voltage telemetry that I set to announce the pack voltage every 30 seconds and a voice alarm telling me when voltage drops to 21.7 volts (about the lowest you want to go on 6S while in the air-voltage will come up a bit as you ease off the throttle). On take-off, pack voltage is 25.2 volts. Within 30secs after take-off (about the time to get in the air and into the first downwind leg), pack voltage had dropped to 23.4 volts. As I ease off the throttle and cruise at 50%, pack voltage slowly comes back up to 24.4 volts. Anytime I push the throttle for a vertical maneuver, voltage drops dramatically (much more than with any other EDF I have). The voltage alarm is constantly going off/on as I reach 3:40 and I land at/after 4:00, by the time I taxi to the pits, pack voltage is back up to 23 volts (50%). It's been a rough ride for those packs.

The twin 70mm FMS fans at full power draw about 150.9 Amps and about 3590 watts (Stock E-Flight fans were at 120.7A / 2800W). The SMC's are probably some of the best packs around and with the 8100, their individual cell amps are around 170 A each fully charged. The 2 fans together pulling on one battery really cause a roller coater of a ride with cell voltage based upon the throttle usage. Not a great way to treat a battery.

Now with 2 SMC 4500's, those packs have individual cell amps around 125 amps, so with only 1 fan pulling about 75 amps at full throttle, it should be a more balanced drain on the battery. At least that's my latest theory. Boy, do I need to stop thinking up these stupid theories!

So as soon as InTheTubeDeep gets his 2nd battery tray with the speed brake remaining mod perfected, I'm going to have to go to the 2 battery plan!

[Hugh Wiedman]

Now that my "experiment" with the 8100 mah battery didn't go as planned, I finally bit the bullet and did the radfordc twin battery mod. Thanks for sending me a description of how you did it. So it turns out I'm able to fit either the SMC 4500 mah 40C (weight 588 gr 46X46X141) or the SMC 5300 mah 40C packs in (weight 684 gr 43X43X160) while being able to put a tray in the floor with velcro straps. Still need to add the rare earth metal magnets and balance it but I'll definitely be able to get some lead out of my rear (no jokes please) as I had it balanced at 150mm with the 903 gr 8100 pack. Unfortunately, Danny doesn't have any more of those 5300's with the "lithium" wars going on, although I do have 8 in inventory as I was planning on using them in the Mig-29, but have mostly used the SMC 6200's.

The only question now is fly it with 9000 mah of juice or go fully loaded with 10,600 mah. May be enough to get me into action over Kiev from here!

I don't mind doing mods to aircraft, actually enjoy it, but this one shoulda never left the factory with those crappy E-Flight fans both operating on a single battery. Not that they would have kept it around any longer, but it really does fly great (and looks great in the air) with those FMS fans, even fully loaded with all ordinance! Small price to pay loosing the air brake!

[xviper]

Hugh Wiedman ............... I agree with your statement about the Eflite fans. After upgrading the fans to FMS inrunners, the performance was markedly superior. Then I tried the ChinaHobbyLine 5000s and the performance improved again (though just marginally). I am about to try another experiment as a result of one that I just completed with my 4s SebArt Mig29. As you already know, getting SMCs for me is a complicated process directly from Danny. I got my hopes up when a shop in Quebec started to carry them but their markup is quite huge and their selection is somewhat limited for what I need. I was just about to retire my SebArt Mig as my batteries were getting quite tired as were the fans in that plane. It didn't have enough power to lift off out of my hands as it used to. When shopping at RC Castle one day, I noticed that they started to carry a new brand of Coddar HV LiPos. A pair of 6000, 4s ones were on sale and shipping was free to me. I got them and when I put them into the Mig, the thing lit up like a scalded cat. These batteries were just a bit heavier than the previous Gens Ace 3800s I was using in that Mig. I wasn't expecting much in the way of flight time due to the light weight but was I surprised. They doubled the flight times and made the plane perform better than it ever did, even when new, with new batteries. They claim that these Coddars will have even better duty cycles than regular LiPos. That has yet to be seen as the reviews of the HobbyKing HV LiPos were appalling in both performance and longevity.
So, to end this story, I'm now awaiting the delivery of a pair of Coddar 6000mah, 6s HV LiPos and the SU-30 will be the first plane to fly them. I should have them in another week or two. From my experience with the smaller Mig, I am excited to see what these will do for the SU and my other twin "performance" jets that could use a bit more punch - Freewing F-14, Freewing Mig29, Freewing 80mm A-10. The 6000, 4s Coddar HV will see duty in my 8s jets soon. (Already tried it in my 8s 90mm F-22 and the result was spectacular.) I'm keeping my fingers crossed that nothing will get fried.

[Hugh Wiedman]

Hugh Wiedman ............... I agree with your statement about the Eflite fans. After upgrading the fans to FMS inrunners, the performance was markedly superior. Then I tried the ChinaHobbyLine 5000s and the performance improved again (though just marginally). I am about to try another experiment as a result of one that I just completed with my 4s SebArt Mig29. As you already know, getting SMCs for me is a complicated process directly from Danny. I got my hopes up when a shop in Quebec started to carry them but their markup is quite huge and their selection is somewhat limited for what I need. I was just about to retire my SebArt Mig as my batteries were getting quite tired as were the fans in that plane. It didn't have enough power to lift off out of my hands as it used to. When shopping at RC Castle one day, I noticed that they started to carry a new brand of Coddar HV LiPos. A pair of 6000, 4s ones were on sale and shipping was free to me. I got them and when I put them into the Mig, the thing lit up like a scalded cat. These batteries were just a bit heavier than the previous Gens Ace 3800s I was using in that Mig. I wasn't expecting much in the way of flight time due to the light weight but was I surprised. They doubled the flight times and made the plane perform better than it ever did, even when new, with new batteries. They claim that these Coddars will have even better duty cycles than regular LiPos. That has yet to be seen as the reviews of the HobbyKing HV LiPos were appalling in both performance and longevity.
So, to end this story, I'm now awaiting the delivery of a pair of Coddar 6000mah, 6s HV LiPos and the SU-30 will be the first plane to fly them. I should have them in another week or two. From my experience with the smaller Mig, I am excited to see what these will do for the SU and my other twin "performance" jets that could use a bit more punch - Freewing F-14, Freewing Mig29, Freewing 80mm A-10. The 6000, 4s Coddar HV will see duty in my 8s jets soon. (Already tried it in my 8s 90mm F-22 and the result was spectacular.) I'm keeping my fingers crossed that nothing will get fried.

Outstanding, great to hear that you've been able to acquire some decent batteries at a good price and free shipping to boot. Same with me, the FMS fans were quite superior but when I finally went to the SMC's, every EDF I have was instantly transformed, even the SU with the FMS fans, including longer flight times just like you experienced with the Coddars. I'll have to get me some and try them out. You are right, the current selection Danny has to offer in the SMC's are quite limited, but he tells me that should be rectified soon. His problem was that the lithium used by his previous manufacturers increased in price almost 10 fold overnight and he was not willing to pass that cost on to customers. Instead, he apparently has found a new source that is meeting/exceeding the quality/high discharge rate/lighter weights that he requires at what should be a price close to what he was able to deliver before. Like Coddar, and others, he will also be offering several HV batteries that the majority of the ESC's in use today will be able to handle, thus increasing flight times without increasing weight or size. As long as the chargers can be programmed for these HV batteries, all should be good. I have a healthy inventory of 6S SMC 4500's, 5300's (8), 6200's (14) and even 8100's so I plan on burning those up before spending any more cash that I would hope could be better used on aircraft. There's always that nagging thought at the back of my head that although I can charge the HV's, with my luck there'll be one or more in my hangar that decides to go the spontaneous combustion route!

[xviper]

Like Coddar, and others, he will also be offering several HV batteries

This is a VERY interesting development.

[radfordc]

Hugh, I'm looking forward to your flight report soon. Hope you like how it performs. BTW, I nearly killed my Su-30 last weekend. I started doing fast multiple rolls on a low pass and lost orientation. Though I was right side up and pulled hard on the elevator. The plane did 99% of a split ESS maneuver before it hit the ground. One foot more altitude and I would have made it! Luckily the repairs were relatively minor as there aren't any spare parts easily available anymore. I will hate it when this one is gone.

[Hugh Wiedman]

Luckily the repairs were relatively minor as there aren't any spare parts easily available anymore.

Thanks again for all your help and steering me in the right direction. It will probably be a couple weeks before I get it out as I'm heading out of town tomorrow for a bit. In any case, I'll definitely let you know how it performs.

And your quote above is probably why I will never buy another aircraft from HH. They just don't stay around long enough and I'm always in desperate need of spare parts!