New FMS/Eflite Su-30 coming soon

[Gvasiloff]

Glad you got the battery strap loosened! Interesting set-up with the fans. The stock fans are the 12 blade Eflight 2860-1850 Kv inrunners, and their performance in this bird, IMO, are marginal at best. Is the FMS unit a drop in fit? I see them on RC Castle for about $60 per unit. Is that where you got them? In your opinion, how does it fly with these fans and what kind of flight time are you getting on the RT 6250. That's one of my favorite batteries, however, I found that they don't quite have a high enough actual C to get the Eflight inrunners up to full potential, but I do like the idea of using them at only 794 g with a decent amount of capacity. Tested that battery on mine against the HRB 6000 50C (824 g) and the RT 5500 70 C (794g). The Amps/Watts at full throttle, fully charged battery, on the 6250 were 118.8/2649, where as on the other 2 they were 121.4/2960, and showed a noticeable increase in thrust.

In the end, I settled on an even lighter weight battery of 750 g and only 5000 mah, which produced the same output as the RT 5500 but felt the bird flew slightly better with that reduced weight and also allowed me to get the CG further back. I've tried a lot of different things with this in attempting to get it to perform better, but have yet to try different fans, so I would love to hear your opinion of the FMS fans. I'm getting just over 3 minutes on the 5000's (about the same on 6000) and it seems to fly better with these, but the flight time is a bit disappointing. I now have the 12 blade inrunner in all my 90mm birds and get 4 minutes on the F-4's, 4 1/2 on the F-18 and 5 minutes on the F-16 (but use an 8000 mah in that one). I also use the RT 6250's in my A-10 and get over 5 minutes, so flight time has become an addiction for me, without loosing flight performance (yah I want my cake and eat it too).

Yes, the FMS fans are a drop-in replacement. No need to change the ESCs either. I got them off of Banggood for about $50 each, shipped. They give the model a very noticeable increase in acceleration and vertical performance. It’s what the model should have come with stock. Another added bonus of these motors is they are each about 2 ounces heavier than the stock 1850 fans, which helps bring the CG farther aft with a big battery like the 6250 up front. Im getting consistent 4 minute flight times and landing at about 25-30%. Battery is warm, not hot. I’m sure they could benefit from an even higher C battery. These fans made the model feel sooo much lighter along with boosting the elevator throws to 125% max travel on much faster and higher torque Hitec digital servos.

[Hugh Wiedman]

Yes, the FMS fans are a drop-in replacement. No need to change the ESCs either. I got them off of Banggood for about $50 each, shipped. They give the model a very noticeable increase in acceleration and vertical performance. It’s what the model should have come with stock. Another added bonus of these motors is they are each about 2 ounces heavier than the stock 1850 fans, which helps bring the CG farther aft with a big battery like the 6250 up front. Im getting consistent 4 minute flight times and landing at about 25-30%. Battery is warm, not hot. I’m sure they could benefit from an even higher C battery. These fans made the model feel sooo much lighter along with boosting the elevator throws to 125% max travel on much faster and higher torque Hitec digital servos.

Outstanding, thanks for the tip, I may have to try that out, otherwise I'll be flying this bird less and less as compared to other EDF's I have! Last question, do you know what the diameter of the motor is, I've got the RC Geek AB's in mine (just replaced his original burners with newer ones that are smaller), but sized for the EFlight motors. Suspect the FMS motors are slightly larger, especially considering they weigh 2 ounces more!

Last Second Update:
Just looked on Banggood, and it has been discontinued. Checked FMS, "out of stock", so went to RC Castle and ordered 2, I must be completely insane!! Never ordered anything from outside the US, so this is a test.

[Gvasiloff]

It’s a 3060-1900kv motor, so the diameter is 30mm. It may just be longer than the 1850kv.

I ordered fan units from RC castle before. It may take a while, but it will be fine.

[Pilot-GJC]

Looking to buy a used Su30 this weekend and would really like some advice on setting up flaperon and tailerons if someone can point me in the right direction?

[fredmdbud]

Looking to buy a used Su30 this weekend and would really like some advice on setting up flaperon and tailerons if someone can point me in the right direction?

First thing would be what brand is your transmitter

[Hugh Wiedman]

It’s a 3060-1900kv motor, so the diameter is 30mm. It may just be longer than the 1850kv.

I ordered fan units from RC castle before. It may take a while, but it will be fine.

Hey, got my FMS fans from RC Castle this week, took just over 2 weeks, so not too shabby. The motor is 30mm in diameter vs the E-flight at 28mm, is slightly longer and weighs a bit more. But they fit with no problem. Installing my afterburners this weekend, then going to button it up and see if helps any. The extra tail weight will help as well, the furthest aft I can get the CG is 140mm, and that's with only a 5000 mah battery and 2 1/2 ounces of lead in the tail. Would love to get it back to 150mm. It flies well at the front of the CG range at 115mm, but take-offs on grass are tough there and it really fights you in getting the nose up. Much better at 140 mm but still too nose heavy for my liking.

Hopefully get it out soon and I'll get back with a report.

[Pilot-GJC]

First thing would be what brand is your transmitter

I'm running a DX8

[fredmdbud]

I'm running a DX8

Flaperon setting uses AIL & AUX1 channels for the ailerons, and elevons/taileron setting uses AIL & ELE channels, so you'll have to work around that.

I'd suggest setting up flaperons, and use mixes to ELE and AUX2 channel to get the tailerons. You can trim roll on the flaperons, and pitch on the tailerons, provided you don't inhibit that in your mixes. You'll also want to disable the AUX2 switch on your transmitter.

AIL - left aileron servo
AUX1 - right aileron servo
ELE - left tail/stabilator
AUX2 - right tail/stabilator

Flying tailerons only with the ailerons as flaps-only is another option.

[xviper]

I'm running a DX8

You can do it with a DX8 but it'll be hard to do it with the stock BNF receiver. It doesn't have enough channels for both flaperons and tailerons.

[Gvasiloff]

You’re going to like the 1900kv fans in it. But yeah, the stock BNF receiver is a joke in a plane of this scale in my opinion. This thing really benefits from flaperons and tailerons. I ditched that receiver and went with a 10ch setup and a gyro that can do dual elevators and ailerons. The stock elevator servos are too slow making the plane feel heavy as well. Upgrading those to Hitec digitals made a huge difference in making it feel lighter. Totally transformed the model as I didn’t care for it stock.

[fredmdbud]

You can do it with a DX8 but it'll be hard to do it with the stock BNF receiver. It doesn't have enough channels for both flaperons and tailerons.

Yep - the included AR636 6-channel receiver only has THRO/AIL/ELE/RUD/GEAR/AUX1 (BIND/BATT is not a channel).

If he wants to stick the stock receiver, maybe if he uses a gyro with a built-in taileron mix, and uses the AUX1 channel for flaps (not flaperons), but he'd have to get a reversed servo for one of the ailerons.

[Hugh Wiedman]

You’re going to like the 1900kv fans in it. But yeah, the stock BNF receiver is a joke in a plane of this scale in my opinion. This thing really benefits from flaperons and tailerons. I ditched that receiver and went with a 10ch setup and a gyro that can do dual elevators and ailerons. The stock elevator servos are too slow making the plane feel heavy as well. Upgrading those to Hitec digitals made a huge difference in making it feel lighter. Totally transformed the model as I didn’t care for it stock.

Finally received the FMS Pro 1900 kv fans from RC Castle. Not bad, received them just over 2 weeks from when I ordered them. I have to thank you profusely for recommending them as I was about ready to give up on this pig. Haven't got it out yet, but after bench testing it these fans are putting out at least 20-25% more than the E-Flite "gerbil wheels". I can feel the difference, but can't tell you the exact difference in thrust.

What I can say is that on a GT Power Meter, the maximum Amps and Watts drawn on the E-Flight fans with a real 40C battery was 118 Amps and 2860 watts. On the same battery, the FMS fans draw 148.65 Amps and 3657 Watts. That's about a 25 % difference. On the RT 6250 35C (which really tests out to a 25C rate), the numbers are still respectable at 142.3 Amps and 3221 Watts.

I also changed the afterburners from Chris's older larger diameter ones to his most recent Mini Burner which creates less obstruction and reportedly a difference in about 10% versus the older style. After all I've done now with the larger nose wheel, flaperons and upgraded fans and afterburners, if it still flies like a dog I'll be out of ideas. But I think this will make a marked improvement but not counting my chickens before they're hatched. More to come after I get her out again.

[Gvasiloff]

I hope it does it for you. It did for me. Out of curiosity, what battery are you testing that is a “real” 40C? Just curious because if I like the power output on the 6250 35C, it sounds like I’m going to like whatever that battery is that puts out even more power.

[Hugh Wiedman]

I hope it does it for you. It did for me. Out of curiosity, what battery are you testing that is a “real” 40C? Just curious because if I like the power output on the 6250 35C, it sounds like I’m going to like whatever that battery is that puts out even more power.

I have a couple prototype "test" batteries that are not yet on the market, one a 5000 mah weighing 745 gr that test's out to just under 40C and a 6000 mah weighing 865 gr that tests out (on the Progressive IR meter) right at 40C. I'll let you know when they are available to purchase. Use the 5000 mah in my Corsair and Spitfire giving 10 minutes flight time and have used it in the SU-30 before upgrading the fans and get just over 3 minutes. The 6000's work well in my 2 F-4's that have the 12 blade inrunners.

But the real gems are from SMC (Superior Matching Concepts). These are graphene, but their weight is at or below comparable batteries and each cell has a consistent, low IR and constant amperage. Their flight batteries test out at or above their labeled C (1st time I've found that, for sure). Their 6200 mah 40C weighs 814 gr and is a true 40C, costing $95. These are out of stock till June unfortunately. I'll eventually fly the SU-30 on those, as well as my F-18's and F-4's (all with the 12 blade inrunner). Contact Danny Sullivan with SMC, he's very helpful and will get whatever you need, including HV batteries if you're into reprogramming your ESC. His packs are by far the best I've seen in IR, weight and price. The 5300 mah 40C weighing 704 gr cost $80 are are perfect for the Mig. I also use his 8100 mah 20 C (tests out to 22C) weighing 904 gr in my F-16, again with the 12 blade inrunner and get over 5 minutes of flight time. The 6200 40C would give me about 4-5% higher thrust, but my F-16 gets along nicely with the 8100 and can't beat the extra flight time.

I've also found that generally, inrunners benefit more from higher C batteries than outrunners do. Not always the case, but especially in EDF's.

I've also found that Liperior batteries are not far off (about 15-20% less) from their labeled C and are a good alternative to SMC, but honestly SMC is the one for me. Most, if not all the other brands I've tested are at least 40-50% below their advertised C, if not more. I've got over 100 6S batteries and have been searching for low IR cells, low weight and decent prices (maybe when pigs can fly) for a while now and the SMC's do the best in those three areas that I've found. I do "like" the Roaring Top 6250's and have 14 of them. They now fly exclusively in my A-10, Avanti and Stinger 90 as these birds have enough power that I don't have to squeeze every last ounce of power out of them to get them to fly well.

But these are just my preferences, and it seems batteries are a very personal thing, so what ever works for someone is the right battery for them. I've been on this "ultimate" battery quest for at least the last few years and I've come to the conclusion that it's like looking for Big Foot. All that I've really accomplished is a stock pile of highly dangerous and flammable material and the draining of my bank account that could have been used to buy something useful, like another aircraft!

[Tigerman]

[Tigerman]

[Hugh Wiedman]

Finally got the SU-30 out with the FMS 12 blade 1900 Kv inrunners Gvasiloff recommended. Holy Cow, what a difference!! This was this birds last chance after 70 flights on the E-Flight "gerbal treadmills" before it got relegated to the garage rafters. Went from a super dog, to flying incredible. Man, what a difference a little more horse power makes (actually more than a little, at least 25-30%). Got off the ground in less than 100 feet and all the vertical you want. I even stuck the ordinance on (first time I dared to try that) and it made virtually no difference. It's now actually fun to fly. Incredible that HH and E-Flite sold this thing in the US with those TERRIBLE 1850kv fans, while the FMS version sold in Europe had these fans. I have to say that if you have the E-Flite fans, deep six them and get the FMS fans, the $120 is the best money I ever spent. Only took 2 1/2 weeks to get here from Hong Kong. I got a total of 25 flights in on 5 different birds, 5 for each. My 90 mm's all have the 12 blade inrunners in them and those all now fly great as well. Used a 5000 40C, a RT 6250 35C (actual C of 25) and a couple HRB 6000's 50C (actual C of 32). Flew the best on the 5000 40C, followed by the HRB which gave the most flight time. Waiting on some SMC 6200's that are a true 40C and about 35 gr less in weight than the HRB's. I will definitely fly this a bunch more now! It does look great in the air, especially with the afterburners being so close to the end, and seems like it lands much better as well, but who knows, maybe I just was so ecstatic over it's flight characteristics that I was very relaxed when it came time to land!

[Gvasiloff]

Heck yeah! Glad you thought the fans worked as well as I advertised!

[Hugh Wiedman]

Heck yeah! Glad you thought the fans worked as well as I advertised!

To be honest with you, they worked way better than you advertised, so you were being conservative. Actually thought you were probably full of , no way anything could make this pig fly better, but I'm a true believer and an Gvasiloff disciple! If you tell me you regularly walk on water, I'd not question it!

[radfordc]

You guys are killing me! Another $140 sunk into a plane I'm not sure I like all that much. But if it really gets 4 min flights that's almost twice what I'm getting now. Look at it this way, just 3 bottles of whiskey that will be gone in a few months.