New FMS/Eflite Su-30 coming soon

[xviper]

Uh, does a real Su 30 fly scale like? I'm not bagging on this eflite jet or on anyone but I would assume that this generation of real fighter jets performance would be hard to replicate in an EDF. Maybe it does and I'm incorrect but....

Doesn't bother me in the least. I guess whatever a real SU30 can do would be considered "scale" like and herein lies the issue of definition. What does one define as "scale like"? I consider "scale" like to be whatever the real thing can do. Some may interpret "scale" like to be relaxed and lumbering at low throttle. That's not me. I see some people use the term for when a plane is too underpowered to get out of its own shadow or they don't have the skill to fly it to the max, so they fly it slowly and more easily controlled by the skill they have. They call it "flying scale".
I don't think the stock model of this plane can do some of the stuff the real one can do. One example might be the "cobra" maneuver. This plane doesn't have the power to do it smoothly and fly out of it like the real one. It would likely fall like a perforated manhole cover in the middle of it. With no VT and the stock thrust to weight ratio, trying to do what the real one does at airshows would suck up the battery so fast that you might be lucky to get 1.5 minutes out of it.
My SebArt Mig29 (also twin 70mm) can and has plenty of power to do anything the real can. It's only limitation is my skill.

[SanExup]

xviper Exactly.

[bandetx]

"the real one flies up to 52,000 feet and has a range of over a thousand miles, if the foamy toy can do that you can't call it scale flying!!!"


🙄

[radfordc]

Here is a quote from the competition guide for the US Scalemasters Championship: "The contestant, or designated pilot, should then fly this aircraft in the most realistic and prototypical fashion possible performing the documented maneuvers. Each aircraft type has its own problem set so it is up to the modeler to choose the maneuvers that are best suited for their aircraft. Only maneuvers that are prototypical of the full size aircraft should be chosen, and they should be performed as though observing the full-scale aircraft." "The intent of the flying portion of the contest is to determine the pilot’s ability to match the model aircraft's flight performance to that of the full-size aircraft in the most realistic manner possible."

[bandetx]

People aren't flying electric foam toys at scale masters.

[Cchrissyv1]

Doesn't bother me in the least. I guess whatever a real SU30 can do would be considered "scale" like and herein lies the issue of definition. What does one define as "scale like"? I consider "scale" like to be whatever the real thing can do. Some may interpret "scale" like to be relaxed and lumbering at low throttle. That's not me. I see some people use the term for when a plane is too underpowered to get out of its own shadow or they don't have the skill to fly it to the max, so they fly it slowly and more easily controlled by the skill they have. They call it "flying scale".
I don't think the stock model of this plane can do some of the stuff the real one can do. One example might be the "cobra" maneuver. This plane doesn't have the power to do it smoothly and fly out of it like the real one. It would likely fall like a perforated manhole cover in the middle of it. With no VT and the stock thrust to weight ratio, trying to do what the real one does at airshows would suck up the battery so fast that you might be lucky to get 1.5 minutes out of it.
My SebArt Mig29 (also twin 70mm) can and has plenty of power to do anything the real can. It's only limitation is my skill.

I agree, xviper. I will never understand those that complain about the "scale" flying characteristics. I feel that is just setting yourself up for failure. By the way, I just got this plane - still in the box. I am looking forward to it. Everyone I have watched fly this plane says it is a great flyer but also it is not the fastest either, which is fine by me. This is a hobby we all enjoy, just enjoy it for what it is

[radfordc]

People aren't flying electric foam toys at scale masters.

A true statement....and absolutely irrelevant in this conversation.

[jetdoc]

Absolutely agree, spent the first 40-50 flights with a heavier 6000 and larger to try and get flight time, and it flew poorly with not much more flight time. The 5000 still gives about the same, but it does fly much better and found it cruises at 50% throttle (instead of 60-70 %) and climbs much much better with the lighter battery.

I've been flying mine on a 6000 and have noticed similar results. Our field is grass and a bit rough in places. I've noticed that with the 6000 I always get nose bounce after landing regardless of how softly the mains touched. Sometimes the nose has come down so hard that the nose cone hit the grass and dug in. Not pretty for the nose cone. I've toyed with the idea of a stiffer nose spring, or even stretching the existing spring to make it stiffer. If you guys are getting similar flight times with the 5000 as the 6000, switching to a 5000 could solve my nose bounce issue. I'll have to give it a try before modifying or replacing the spring.

[Hugh Wiedman]

I've been flying mine on a 6000 and have noticed similar results. Our field is grass and a bit rough in places. I've noticed that with the 6000 I always get nose bounce after landing regardless of how softly the mains touched. Sometimes the nose has come down so hard that the nose cone hit the grass and dug in. Not pretty for the nose cone. I've toyed with the idea of a stiffer nose spring, or even stretching the existing spring to make it stiffer. If you guys are getting similar flight times with the 5000 as the 6000, switching to a 5000 could solve my nose bounce issue. I'll have to give it a try before modifying or replacing the spring.

Just make sure your 5000 has a sufficiently high actual C to get the most out of the inrunners. The Admiral (701 gr) 5000 50 C's, do not have a high enough actual C, more like 20C, to get the job done. I had to use a Liperior 45C (780 gr) or 35C (better at 718 gr) that had an actual C closer to their rating.

I did try to stretch the existing spring to make it stiffer, but it seemed to make the nose bounce a little worse, and went back to the stock spring, but that just may be me. Also tried it with a small metal collar in the base of the spring, but it seemed to bottom out too quickly. If you figure out a solution (short of just figuring out how to land better which I still need to work at), let us know.

[Hugh Wiedman]

BTW jetdoc , there's a few other things I did to help flying off of grass that you may want to consider. I swapped out the 6 channel RX for one of the older discontinued 7 channel AS3X to program in flaperons. Some have instead used spoilerons, and say that works well on landings. I also removed the grass catcher on the nose wheel and put a 2 1/4 inch Hangar Nine Pro-lite wheel (which may no longer be available) instead of the stock 3 7/8" wheel. Just fits in the wheel well and get's the nose up a bit more on the take-off run.

Additionally, please note that the nose section were the battery sits has absolutely no carbon fiber support. The CF tubes end just before it gets to the battery bay, real ingenious engineering. In my quest to increase flight time, I even tried a Hobbystar 8000 mah 100 C (which works great in my F-16), but the SU-30 barely got off with it and had almost zero vertical. Sadly had to fly it at 70-80% throttle to keep it in the air and still got no more flight time. However, on landing (and probably caused by too many hard landings), I noticed a crack developing just aft of the battery line and right along the front nose whell bay line. Unfortunately, there's only foam up there supporting the battery!!!!

Also, the closer to the aft end of the CG you can get, IMO, the quicker it gets off grass, the better it flies with lower throttle settings and the easier it is to land with a nose up attitude. If I remember correctly, that aft end range is 140mm. I could only get to 135mm with a lighter weight battery, even after adding 2 1/2 ounces of lead to the tail. Probably because I added weight to the nose in extending the CF tubes a beefing up the battery bay.

Lastly, some are flying very well using a Roaring Top 5500 70 C. Still about the same flight time and it has a sufficiently high actual C to work. I've used those as well and it's a good option.

[Wild Man]

For the test flight on my SU-30 I flew it with the Admiral 6000 50c and have been using for all flights. The CG range is from 115mm to150mm I can not remember where the CG came out with the 6000 as far back in the battery compartment I could get it. The first flight went OK, but since then I have been doing much better. I have yet to bounce it on landing. One thing I have seen in some video's on this SU-30 is when they have gotten it to slow on landings stalled it and bounced them badly. Getting it to slow in High Alpha at touch down in some other video's causing the stall and then slamming the nose gear down hard. So far I have made very good landings with out bouncing the nose gear. I fly it off paved surfaces only. Here is the first flight. I recently ordered new main wheels to replace the skins LOL !!! nose gear wheels still have a little tread left. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbrNzp66Buw&t=266s

[Gvasiloff]

Has anyone successfully pulled the battery tray out of this thing? I fact that the straps are glued down and you can’t rotated them is driving me nuts. The buckle on the strap is always right on the corner of the battery. I’ve yanked on the tray pretty hard and it shows no sign of coming loose. If you managed to do it, please share the method that you used.

[Wild Man]

Has anyone successfully pulled the battery tray out of this thing? I fact that the straps are glued down and you can’t rotated them is driving me nuts. The buckle on the strap is always right on the corner of the battery. I’ve yanked on the tray pretty hard and it shows no sign of coming loose. If you managed to do it, please share the method that you used.

Both the straps in my SU-30 were loose and moveable. Another guy I know had the Same problem you have. The straps have glue on them from the manufacturer getting to much glue on the plywood tray and it spreads out and glues the straps in place. What he did was to take an exacto knife and cut along the strap on both sides, removed the strap with the ply glued to it, removed the glue from the strap and carefully reinstalled the strap and the ply making sure not to get any epoxy on the strap. I have had this problem in a few other planes but was able to pull them loose in some other planes when removing the battery the ply wood tray has pulled loose from the foam and came out with the battery. one thing I have done is to take a feeler gage and try to slide it in between the trap and the plywood plate to break it loose. good luck

[Hugh Wiedman]

Has anyone successfully pulled the battery tray out of this thing? I fact that the straps are glued down and you can’t rotated them is driving me nuts. The buckle on the strap is always right on the corner of the battery. I’ve yanked on the tray pretty hard and it shows no sign of coming loose. If you managed to do it, please share the method that you used.

Mine was like that from the factory as well (as many others were). I first drilled about an 1/8" hole in the center of the battery tray where the strap is, careful to only drill through the wood. Then inserted a philip head screw driver (or some other tool) in the hole to force the strap down and loosen it. On both straps, I had to drill holes at various locations, moving toward the edges, until I was able to get the straps loose. One strap required 3 or 4 holes spread out, the other about 8 . Once you get them free, it will make installing the battery sooooooooooo much easier! Can't tell you how often I cursed HH/E-Flight over this simple thing when I first started flying this bird. Of course found a bunch of other reasons, but done with this one issue.

[Wild Man]

Not only E-flite but Free-Wing, Flight Line and FMS, and others. I have cursed all these manufacturer's for this very annoying problem, it is usually an easy fix, but a real pain in the rear Sliding a feeler gage between the strap and the ply works well rather then drilling holes in the ply and then poking it with a screw driver, but if there is a lot of glue on the strap an ply drilling holes and using a screw driver to work it loose is also a good way to fix the problem

[Gvasiloff]

Thanks gents! The drilled hole idea worked! I drilled 2 x 1/4” holes where each strap was and then used a paint key in the hole to help separate the rest of the strap from underneath the plywood. No need to pull up the whole tray. Thanks guys!!!

[Gvasiloff]

Also, here’s my setup if anyone is interested-

-Lemon Rx 10Ch with satellite
-Castle BEC 2.0 14a
-Hobby Eagle A3 Super 3 gyro
-FMS 1900kv Platinum motors
-Hitec HS-5065MG servos in the elevators
-Swapped the stock 13g elevator servos into the ailerons to replace the stock 9g servos.
-Roaringtop 6250mah 35C battery
-Custom programming: Tailerons, Flaperons, separate nose wheel steering channel tuning on the knob. 33% Gyro stabilization on the flaperons for roll, tailerons for elevator, and rudder. First notch of flaps is flaperons down, second notch of flaps just adds the speed brake extended.

You can also see my antennae and satellite placement which seems to work well. Needed a 600mm extension to get it up there in the nose. I previously had it in the nose gear well and had a small dead zone when the model was head-on. Getting the satellite in front of the battery fixed the issue.

[Wild Man]

Thanks gents! The drilled hole idea worked! I drilled 2 x 1/4” holes where each strap was and then used a paint key in the hole to help separate the rest of the strap from underneath the plywood. No need to pull up the whole tray. Thanks guys!!!

Here is another little tip I like to use on all my straps, so I do not have to fiddle with keeping them out of the way while installing the battery

[Hugh Wiedman]

Also, here’s my setup if anyone is interested-

-FMS 1900kv Platinum motors
-Roaringtop 6250mah 35C battery

Glad you got the battery strap loosened! Interesting set-up with the fans. The stock fans are the 12 blade Eflight 2860-1850 Kv inrunners, and their performance in this bird, IMO, are marginal at best. Is the FMS unit a drop in fit? I see them on RC Castle for about $60 per unit. Is that where you got them? In your opinion, how does it fly with these fans and what kind of flight time are you getting on the RT 6250. That's one of my favorite batteries, however, I found that they don't quite have a high enough actual C to get the Eflight inrunners up to full potential, but I do like the idea of using them at only 794 g with a decent amount of capacity. Tested that battery on mine against the HRB 6000 50C (824 g) and the RT 5500 70 C (794g). The Amps/Watts at full throttle, fully charged battery, on the 6250 were 118.8/2649, where as on the other 2 they were 121.4/2960, and showed a noticeable increase in thrust.

In the end, I settled on an even lighter weight battery of 750 g and only 5000 mah, which produced the same output as the RT 5500 but felt the bird flew slightly better with that reduced weight and also allowed me to get the CG further back. I've tried a lot of different things with this in attempting to get it to perform better, but have yet to try different fans, so I would love to hear your opinion of the FMS fans. I'm getting just over 3 minutes on the 5000's (about the same on 6000) and it seems to fly better with these, but the flight time is a bit disappointing. I now have the 12 blade inrunner in all my 90mm birds and get 4 minutes on the F-4's, 4 1/2 on the F-18 and 5 minutes on the F-16 (but use an 8000 mah in that one). I also use the RT 6250's in my A-10 and get over 5 minutes, so flight time has become an addiction for me, without loosing flight performance (yah I want my cake and eat it too).

[Gvasiloff]

Here is another little tip I like to use on all my straps, so I do not have to fiddle with keeping them out of the way while installing the battery

Now that’s a great idea!!