New FMS/Eflite Su-30 coming soon

[jetdoc]

jetdoc Welcome to the SU-30 club, way to go on the maiden. I fly mine on grass as well and the flaperons make a big difference for me on take-off as well. Just curious, what battery are you using to get the four minutes. I've been using the RT 5500 70C and generally have to come in just under 3:30.

Also, I'm flying mine with the FMS 3060 1900kV inrunners instead of the stock Eflite setup so my amp draw is a little more than stock as well. I also have the Freewing Me-262 which is also a twin 70mm. I fly it for 4 minutes on an HRB 5000 50c. I've concluded that with edf's, especially twins, it's as much about flying style and control of my left thumb than most anything else. I now have around 20 flights on the Su-30 of at least 4 minutes duration each and have yet to land with cell voltage of less than 3.72. I have a friend in another local RC club who flies his Su-30 pretty much full power from takeoff to base leg and he never gets more than 3 minutes. One interesting thing is that when I fly this plane everyone stops and watches. It has such a presence in the air and is such a pleasure to fly. I read a lot of complaints and nitpicks about the Su-30 in these threads but after 35 years of RC I enjoy flying this more than anything I've flown in quite some time. It's all about individual preference, I guess.

[Hugh Wiedman]

Also, I'm flying mine with the FMS 3060 1900kV inrunners instead of the stock Eflite setup so my amp draw is a little more than stock as well. I also have the Freewing Me-262 which is also a twin 70mm. I fly it for 4 minutes on an HRB 5000 50c. I've concluded that with edf's, especially twins, it's as much about flying style and control of my left thumb than most anything else. I now have around 20 flights on the Su-30 of at least 4 minutes duration each and have yet to land with cell voltage of less than 3.72. I have a friend in another local RC club who flies his Su-30 pretty much full power from takeoff to base leg and he never gets more than 3 minutes. One interesting thing is that when I fly this plane everyone stops and watches. It has such a presence in the air and is such a pleasure to fly. I read a lot of complaints and nitpicks about the Su-30 in these threads but after 35 years of RC I enjoy flying this more than anything I've flown in quite some time. It's all about individual preference, I guess.

Thanks jetdoc . I usually fly mine with either the RT 5500 70C or the HRB 6000 50C as well for just a few seconds more. I've got about 30 flights on it and like it a lot, however, got out today with it and it would not get off the grass, even with flaperons. The problem was that our club had both of our usual lawn equipment broken down, which cuts the grass to 5/8" and it used to get off well. They just got a demo cutter that cuts must faster than the old equipment, however, it only cuts the grass at 1". They mowed it yesterday so I went out today to try it out and man, it sucks! I could tell that it wasn't getting up to speed and it felt like I was taking off of molasses. And I also brought another battery to try, the Hobbystar 8000 (weighs about 70g more than the RT & HRB) but never bothered to even try it. The club is thinking of buying that mower at a cost of $30,000 (and it's used) and if they do, I'm outta business at this field with the SU-30. Most of the 500 members have large scale gas or turbine so they don't seem to mind a little longer grass, but some of my EDF's (including the F-16 even though it has the upgraded 12 blade inrunner) just won't get off with the higher grass. Man, am I bummed. Heck, the F-4, Stinger 90 and even the Avanti struggled to get of this grass!

And I just loved landing these on grass, but if I can't get up, I won't need to land. I'll have to take them up to Broward to fly off asphalt, but I hate that club. They still have crazy rules (due to the virus), no shelters allowed yet and the electricity is shut off so you just bake in the sun.

[Hugh Wiedman]

Not much happening on this thread! Anyway, from my last post above, I could no longer get the SU-30 off of our grass field with the grass mowed from our new mower, it was 5/8" and now it is almost 1". It got off fine before about 30 times (not great, but needed 3/4 of the runway, but at least it got off). Tried it on 2 different days now and no luck. We are trying to get the dealer to allow it to cut a little shorter, but in the meantime, I thought I'd try using a different nose wheel. The majority of our members fly large gas or turbine, so the length of the grass is not an issue for them. I'm definitely in the minority with all my electric jets (all the prop planes are fine, just the F-4 and F-18 which do get off, barely, and the F-16 and SU-30 which do not get enough ground speed with the longer grass). So I took off the grass shield and found that a Hangar 9 Pro-Lite 2" and 2 1/4" fit, with only a few modifications of enlarging the axial hole on the wheel and adding some spacers to keep it centered. No modifications to the nose wheel bay are needed even with the 2 1/4". This also gives a slightly higher angle when sitting on the runway. The stock nose wheel, although it has a 2" label on it, is more like 1 3/4".

Any thoughts on if the larger wheel will create more drag? Not sure if the 2" or 2 1/4" is better, but going to try the larger of the 2 first. Maybe sometime this week if the rains and wind stop.



The Stock wheel is on the left, the 2" Hangar 9 in the middle and the 2 1/4" on the right. Photos above are with the 2 1/4".

[xviper]

Hugh, so ALL those wheels will fit inside the axle assembly? The physics of it would tell me that the bigger the diameter of the wheel (given the same wheel width, more or less), the easier it will roll, regardless of what it's rolling on.

[jetdoc]

Larger nosewheel is always better in grass. Sorry about the grass issues. That sucks. Our club president is Covid paranoid but we're still flying. He keeps pushing masks but in 95 degree weather with 95% humidity that's just not practical. We have permanent shaders so we stay relatively cool. Back to topic, have you tried the FMS 3060 1900kV inrunners? They fit perfectly right into the Eflite fans. Helped my performance quite a bit. Got mine from RC Castle in Hong Kong. Great service. One week HK to SC. Our grass is mostly Bermuda and is cut to about 1 1/2". Our field has a slight downhill SSW to NNE so I can only fly edf's in the hot months when the winds are out of the north to northeast and I can takeoff downhill. Cooler months are no problem either way. Another option is to put a shim under the nosegear to increase the wing angle of attack. I added a 3/16" plastic shim under the nose gear of my Freewing MiG-21 and now it'll lift off in about 100 feet.

[Hugh Wiedman]

Thanks xviper and jetdoc , your help is greatly appreciated. First off, yes all the Hanger 9 2" & 21/4" fit inside the axle assembly and retract into the nose gear bay (the grass catcher took up some space so with it gone, they all fit nicely). Just had to enlarge the axle hole on the wheels and add some No. 6 stainless washers on the outside of the assembly to take the place of the plastic grass catcher thickness. Then the plastic wheel hub rims are narrower than the stock (although the rubber wheel itself is the same width) so had to add some 8-32 Nylon flat washers on the inside of the axle assembly to keep the wheel centered.

Secondly, I haven't tried the FMS 3060 1900kv inrunners but if you are able to get off on 1 1/2" of bermuda grass, they must have a lot more guts than the stock 12 blade 1850 Kv inrunners because originally our bermuda grass was cut at around 5/8" and now it's just over 1" and I can't get off. Instead of adding a shim, I figured the extra 1/4" in wheel height from increasing the diameter by 1/2" might do the same thing.

[Clooney]

Just wanted to say hello and show off my SU30 that I haven't flown yet. Still stock but I haven't bought batteries for it yet. I'm leaning towards the HRB 6000 and was curious about what other's thoughts are. Also the CG spot is between 115-150mm, how does that work? I actually made decals for the spot as you can see on the top of the wings near the wing root. Anything I need to be aware of.

[xviper]

Also the CG spot is between 115-150mm, how does that work?

Any CG numbers given in any manual for any plane is purely a "recommendation". What you see for this plane is a recommended "range". I always start with something in the middle and change it by moving the battery until it "feels" right for me. What is recommended and what any pilot ends up with may not be the same. What feels right for you and what works best for you might even fall out of the recommended range. However, I tend to go for a bit nose heavy when doing a maiden and go from there.

[Hugh Wiedman]

Clooney nice repaint on the SU-30. I agree with xviper 100%. I think you'll find this to be a "heavy" flying jet (I call it "the bus"). It is definitely not very agile and rolls even with high rates on the aileron fairly slowly. Once it does get going, it carries a lot of momentum, so landings can be a little tricky at first, guess that's why they installed an air brake and most use it on landing, not the typical use of slowing it down after landing. I programmed flaperons in it as well solely to help in take-off since I fly it off of grass, although landing with full flaps and the air brake is nice for me. On landing, make sure you try to get the nose up, at least slightly to avoid too much pressure on the nose gear, so you're air speed is critical.

Regarding batteries, I use the RT 5500 70C or the HRB 6000 50C, both of which give decent full throttle thrust. The only negative (especially with the 5500 mah) is the limited flight time of 3:15-3:30, so I now have some Hobbystar 8000's to try, but am having a problem at our field with the grass length and even taking off now with the 5500-6000 has suddenly been a problem. Put a new 2 1/4' wheel on the nose and hopefully that will help.

Regarding the CG, which as xviper said is a personal preference, I maidened mine at 125mm, but fly it now more like 135-140mm (helps get it into a nose up attitude on landing for me better) with the battery all the way back, but follow his advice and you won't be mislead! Happy Hunting, but keep it clear of any Freewing US fighter or it will easily get smoked!

[PaulZ]

Dear SU-30 club members - I decided to sell mine. Its in perfect condition. Let me know if anyone is interested?

[Phantom]

Dear SU-30 club members - I decided to sell mine. Its in perfect condition. Let me know if anyone is interested?

Send me a PM

[Hugh Wiedman]

Finally got my SU-30 out yesterday to try out the new 2 1/4" hangar 9 nose wheel and two other batteries instead of the Roaring Top 5500 70C I've been using. Got a real crummy video on the 2 different batteries taken by a friend's phone (at least it proves it got in the air) that I attached. Long story short, the new nose wheel did wonders, took off of the grass in just over 100 feet using the HRB 6000 mAh 50 C (usually took almost twice that even with the RT and flaperons) and almost the same with the much heavier (900g) HobbyStar 8000. We all know this thing flies like a bus, but the bottom line, it flew great on the HRB (same as with the RT) with a little longer flight time than the RT. With the Hobbystar 8000, it still got off in about the same distance, but now flew like a fully loaded oil tanker. I had to use more throttle just to "keep it up" (no jokes please) and it fought me like hell to do any vertical. At the end, the 8000 only gave me marginally more time after having to use more throttle but definitely flew more like an ostrich (yes, I know they don't actually fly).

So after all this, the nose modification was definitely worth it. As far as the battery, although the RT 5500 is an outstanding battery, I'm now only going to use the HRB. Same weight, slightly more flight time and the performance is virtually the same for power (see my actual C and power tests in the thread "Lipo Wars" under batteries) but at a price of $80 for the HRB and $120 for the RT, to me it's a no brainer!



The really bad You Tube video is here: https://youtu.be/lh20BwGw_h4

[PaulZ]

Just wanted to say hello and show off my SU30 that I haven't flown yet. Still stock but I haven't bought batteries for it yet. I'm leaning towards the HRB 6000 and was curious about what other's thoughts are. Also the CG spot is between 115-150mm, how does that work? I actually made decals for the spot as you can see on the top of the wings near the wing root. Anything I need to be aware of.

Beautiful repaint!

[PaulZ]

Hugh Wiedman I am not surprised about your "battery wars" and final conclusions. I have some similar experiences on different airplanes. I decided to keep my SU-30 and also upgrade the nose gear as well as add brakes on the mains. She may be a bit of "truck" but very predictable and a joy to fly even in strong wind.

[Hugh Wiedman]

Hugh Wiedman I am not surprised about your "battery wars" and final conclusions. I have some similar experiences on different airplanes. I decided to keep my SU-30 and also upgrade the nose gear as well as add brakes on the mains. She may be a bit of "truck" but very predictable and a joy to fly even in strong wind.

Yes indeed PaulZ , glad you decided to keep her. This last couple of flights was in a 15-20 mph wind and with it's weight, hardly noticed it in the air. That wind also helped in the take-off and landing, so I've come to the conclusion that it actually flies better than when it's dead calm. Increasing the nose wheel by 1/2" also really helped it get up to speed so much quicker on the grass runway and that 1/4" higher of an AoA also helped relieve pressure on the nose wheel. All in all, a great modification for me. It really does have a nice presence in the air, as well as on the ground. I'm looking forward to "wearing the paint off" whenever I take out the jets!

[N4Speed]

Just wanted to say hello and show off my SU30 that I haven't flown yet. Still stock but I haven't bought batteries for it yet. I'm leaning towards the HRB 6000 and was curious about what other's thoughts are. Also the CG spot is between 115-150mm, how does that work? I actually made decals for the spot as you can see on the top of the wings near the wing root. Anything I need to be aware of.

I like your SU-30!

I have been using different brands of batteries and about a month ago, when I was searching for light weight battery, I came across several post in the Eflight F-16 70 MM section of forum with good feedback on Hobbystar. I ordered 6S 4200 mah and they weight considerable less than my HRB 4000 mah or Zeee (516 gram for Hobbystar, 598 gram for Zeee & 597 gram for HRB). I have a digital scale and these numbers are accurate. I now have 6 of the 6S 4200 and really like them, I get 6 minutes of flight with mixed throttle on my F-16. Physical dimensions of Hobystar is also smaller than HRB or Zeee.

I don't have SU-30 yet, but planning to order one. I just looked at weight for HRB 6000 and it's 863 gram VS Hobbystar 6200 at 790 gram. If you get their soft case 6200, it's only 760 gram.

[evensen007]

After limited success with the a-10 this su-30 has really pushed me over the hump. I've put about 40-50 flights on it in the last week and it's been awesome! Learning alpha and better approaches. This thing is a bit hard to keep on the short runway, but getting better every time! Love this jet, although it's a bit under powered. I can pretty much hit the landing like this or better every time.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/e5Qs7h21wyA8bi2X9

My mistake was taking the a-10 up as my first EDF ever; not that it's a poor flier. Honestly I probably would have crashed this su-30 the same or worse had I tried to make this my first jet flight.

[xviper]

After limited success with the a-10 this su-30 has really pushed me over the hump. I've put about 40-50 flights on it in the last week and it's been awesome! Learning alpha and better approaches. This thing is a bit hard to keep on the short runway, but getting better every time! Love this jet, although it's a bit under powered. I can pretty much hit the landing like this or better every time.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/e5Qs7h21wyA8bi2X9

You'll get it. It's just a matter of setting up the final so your wheels touch down closer to the start of the runway. My runway is about the same length. Most landings come to a stop before the end but a couple still sees it running into the grass at the end. I keep my fingers crossed that the speed is low enough when that happens. So far, the nose gear has held up quite well.

[Wild Man]

Nice landing evensen007 my first EDF was the E-Flite F-4 Phantom, I love my E-Flite 64 mm A10 Thunderbolt. I fly it 3 or 4 times a week and is one I always take with me every time I now have 3 A-10's 64 mm FMS V2 70 mm and the Free wing 80 mm a couple months ago I finally purchased an SU-30 and wish I had waited Now I have the Mig 29 freew ing on pre order. You are right that the SU-30 is under powered, but is a great flying EDF for what it is. Here is my SU- 30 First Testflight https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbrNzp66Buw

[Hugh Wiedman]

I like your SU-30!

I don't have SU-30 yet, but planning to order one. I just looked at weight for HRB 6000 and it's 863 gram VS Hobbystar 6200 at 790 gram. If you get their soft case 6200, it's only 760 gram.

The HRB 50 C 6000's weight is 824 g according to my scale. I now use them exclusively in the SU 30. These twin inrunners need a higher C battery to get full thrust. Was using the RT 5500 70 C. Both batteries are identical in weight and the actual C tested on an IR meter was the same, so the HRB is it for me. I tried the Hobbystar 8000 100C, weight 890g, but it could barely go vertical. It tested out at slightly lower actual C than both the HRB & RT, to be expected because of the relatively low weight for an 8000. The HSTAR 8000 did work well in my F16 with the upgraded inrunner, longer flight times and virtually no I'll affects from the extra weight. I only caution you on what the actual C is on that Hobbystar 6200 with the weight that low. The SU 30 NEEDS high discharge rate on takeoff, especially if on grass like me. Don't get me wrong, I like the HS 8000, but only in the F16 and their advertised C is way over blown. The RT 6250 35C also weighs 790 g, I use them in all my outrunners, but they do not have a high enough actual C for the inrunners like the SU 30. I suspect the HS 6200 is very similar to the RT 6250 35C, and that just ain't good enough for the SU 30 or my F 16.