New FMS/Eflite Su-30 coming soon

[xviper]

Today was the SU-30's turn in the rotation. First flights of this season. I needed to fly it again just to remind me that I'm not selling it. Flies well and predictably and has tremendous "presence". Still all stock. This was the first time that flew it on 6000, 50C HRBs. They worked great but nothing extraordinary to report. Nearly the same weight and performance as the CHL 5000, 70C. Two flights, two perfectly smooth landings. In fact, the second landing was so picture perfect, the few guys at the field all gave applause. There were several really bad landings at the field this morning and a really good landing on this big, heavy jet was appreciated.

[Hugh Wiedman]

Today was the SU-30's turn in the rotation. First flights of this season. I needed to fly it again just to remind me that I'm not selling it. Flies well and predictably and has tremendous "presence". Still all stock. This was the first time that flew it on 6000, 50C HRBs. They worked great but nothing extraordinary to report. Nearly the same weight and performance as the CHL 5000, 70C. Two flights, two perfectly smooth landings. In fact, the second landing was so picture perfect, the few guys at the field all gave applause. There were several really bad landings at the field this morning and a really good landing on this big, heavy jet was appreciated.

Great Stuff, nice to have you back "In the Rotation"!

[Hugh Wiedman]

You guys are killing me! Another $140 sunk into a plane I'm not sure I like all that much. But if it really gets 4 min flights that's almost twice what I'm getting now. Look at it this way, just 3 bottles of whiskey that will be gone in a few months.

I can't guarantee you'll be getting 4 minutes of flight time if you upgrade. And if you're flying off of asphalt, the extra take-off punch may not be all that important to you. I was only able to get 5 flights in yesterday on our grass field, which hasn't been mowed for almost a week, and all I can say was that I was shocked at the increased ground speed and it lifting off in 100 feet, where before on a newly mowed runway I was lucky to get off in 200 to 250 feet (with the help of a 10mph headwind). I was trying several batteries out and got 3:10 on a 5000 mah true 35C, and about 3:30-3:40 on the HRB. Still waiting for the SMC 6200 true 40C's to get back in stock which weigh about 25 gr less than the HRB. I will also tell you that it is quite possible to get 4:00 if you are on asphalt and cruise around at 50-60% throttle with only a few vertical maneuvers. I was so impressed with the performance of the FMS fans, I was continuously doing Cuban 8's, Spit S's and other verticals that before, if I got one in, I was pushing it. So no doubt I was a lot heavier on the throttle than the way I flew it before, but now it does anything you want it too without blinking an eye. Hope to get out tomorrow with it again and experiment more with only the HRB 6000's and hopefully our runway will have been mowed early in the morning. Either way, I still maintain this is one of the best upgrades I've done because without it, I think my aircraft would have been staying in the hangar for a very, very long time!

[Hugh Wiedman]

Got out again today with the SU-30, as well as the F-4 Blue Angel, F-18 Canadian and the F-16 (all of which have the 12 blade FW 90mm inrunner). Not to sound like a broken record, but those FMS fans really make a huge difference on the SU-30. Actually I like flying it best on the 5000 mah true 40C battery better than the HRB 6000, which has a lower true C. With the lighter weight and higher actual C, it just get offs so quickly and goes vertical like a rocket, I just can't pass it up. Only getting about 3:20 on the 5000 but then I really only got about 3:35-3:45 on the 6000. I kind of screwed up my final landing with a 15 gusting to 20 mph swirling wind, and tried to overcompensate with too much throttle and bounced the first touch, but like an idiot, punched the throttle and kept the nose down and it lifted up like a rocket instead of ending up in a really bad crash. Surprised the hell out of me and RudyD54 who was standing next to me. Never could have done that with the old fans.

Another member showed up with his $15,000 Turbine SU-27. Damn, that's one sweet bird, flies incredible, lands smoothly and gives over 10 minutes of flight time. And the vertical on that one is off the charts (FAA height limits be damned). If I had the cash, that's the one I'd get, but not to worry, I'll never get close to being able to afford something like that! Costs more than my "red neck trailer home" located in the swamp!



Can you tell which one is mine? If not, you definitely need some new spectacles



Love his "Heat Weathered Nozzles", or whatever you call it. But for that price, it should be able to take you out to dinner at least!

[Cchrissyv1]

Finally got the SU-30 out with the FMS 12 blade 1900 Kv inrunners Gvasiloff recommended. Holy Cow, what a difference!! This was this birds last chance after 70 flights on the E-Flight "gerbal treadmills" before it got relegated to the garage rafters. Went from a super dog, to flying incredible. Man, what a difference a little more horse power makes (actually more than a little, at least 25-30%). Got off the ground in less than 100 feet and all the vertical you want. I even stuck the ordinance on (first time I dared to try that) and it made virtually no difference. It's now actually fun to fly. Incredible that HH and E-Flite sold this thing in the US with those TERRIBLE 1850kv fans, while the FMS version sold in Europe had these fans. I have to say that if you have the E-Flite fans, deep six them and get the FMS fans, the $120 is the best money I ever spent. Only took 2 1/2 weeks to get here from Hong Kong. I got a total of 25 flights in on 5 different birds, 5 for each. My 90 mm's all have the 12 blade inrunners in them and those all now fly great as well. Used a 5000 40C, a RT 6250 35C (actual C of 25) and a couple HRB 6000's 50C (actual C of 32). Flew the best on the 5000 40C, followed by the HRB which gave the most flight time. Waiting on some SMC 6200's that are a true 40C and about 35 gr less in weight than the HRB's. I will definitely fly this a bunch more now! It does look great in the air, especially with the afterburners being so close to the end, and seems like it lands much better as well, but who knows, maybe I just was so ecstatic over it's flight characteristics that I was very relaxed when it came time to land!

Been a while since I logged into the Squawk so I am kind of catching up. I bought a used SU-30 a few weeks back - still in the box. After hearing all of the mixed reviews on this plane I am hesitant to fly it and starting to regret my decision to buy this plane now that there are a few other E-flite jets I feel would have been a better purchase. Anyways, since I have not even put the plane together yet this may be a good idea, to me at least. I never am one to modify a plane - my motto is I should not have to invest more money into a plane that I already invested a good chunk of change into with the initial purchase.

Anyone have a good link I can order these FMS fans? Anything I need to look out for during the install?

I might as well do this because the looks of this bird is what initially caught my interest and I really want this one to be a regular in my rotation.

[Flanker271]

https://www.rc-castle.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=256_630_632&product_id=8972

It is basically a drop-in replacement for the stock fans. Don't forget to check for motor direction before sealing it all up.

[Hugh Wiedman]

Cchrissyv1 I highly recommend getting those FMS fans in the link Flanker271 provided. Usually Horizon has the FMS fans as well, but not these and this was the only place I was able to find them. It only took 2 1/2 weeks to arrive in Miami after I ordered them, so I was pleasantly surprised with my experience with RC Castle, first time I've ordered anything from Asia. The difference between the stock E-Flite fans is so dramatic, IMO it's well worth the $139 (fans & shipping). And as stated, they're a perfect match with no mods required. They are about 50 gr heavier each, but that's a good thing as it will assist in getting the CG back closer to the 150mm area of the recommended range. The motor is also several mm larger in diameter, so the only thing I had to change were the afterburner cones. Normally I would have never bought new fans, but this bird seemed so border line underpowered and just flew so sluggishly that it was either find a better power source or hang it up for good. And I had over 70 flights on the stock fans, so I didn't develop that opinion without a lot of air time.

[Cchrissyv1]

Flanker271 Hugh Wiedman thank you both for your help! I may have to do just that. I want my experience an enjoyable one with this jet.

[kallend]

Cchrissyv1 I highly recommend getting those FMS fans in the link Flanker271 provided.

Confirm that these are excellent fans. I now have them in all my 6S 70mm jets, and the 80mm version in all my 80mm jets.

[Cchrissyv1]

Cchrissyv1 I highly recommend getting those FMS fans in the link Flanker271 provided. Usually Horizon has the FMS fans as well, but not these and this was the only place I was able to find them. It only took 2 1/2 weeks to arrive in Miami after I ordered them, so I was pleasantly surprised with my experience with RC Castle, first time I've ordered anything from Asia. The difference between the stock E-Flite fans is so dramatic, IMO it's well worth the $139 (fans & shipping). And as stated, they're a perfect match with no mods required. They are about 50 gr heavier each, but that's a good thing as it will assist in getting the CG back closer to the 150mm area of the recommended range. The motor is also several mm larger in diameter, so the only thing I had to change were the afterburner cones. Normally I would have never bought new fans, but this bird seemed so border line underpowered and just flew so sluggishly that it was either find a better power source or hang it up for good. And I had over 70 flights on the stock fans, so I didn't develop that opinion without a lot of air time.

Just ordered two of these bad boys for the SU-30. Even if it takes two weeks to deliver I can certainly wait, still working my way up to this plane. I am currently still getting used to flying the E-flite 70mm F-16 Tbird. Next on my list is that beautiful E-flite F-18, but that is a convo for another day.

Thanks to all of you, I certainly appreciate all of the willingness to help out pilots such as myself. Especially in today's world.

[radfordc]

Flew the Su-30 with the new FMS fans today. Didn't get what I was looking for. Yes, performance may have been improved a little but still only getting less than 2:30 flight time. You can feel how hot the battery and connectors are after a flight....pulling 150 amps or so.

It looks great in the air but, the problem with this jet is that it is a porker! When I lift it compared to my other planes it feels like I'm getting a hernia!

I saw on RCG that some guys are using two batteries in parallel in this plane. One 4000 mah battery in the nose and a second 4000 in the bay under the air brake giving 8000 mah of total capacity. Weight gain of two batteries is somewhat offset by removing some tail weight.

What do you think?

Red Alert said: "HRB 6S 4000Mah fits in the airbrake compartment, with a little bit of foam removed on the sides. My setup is 2 x 6s 4000Mah in parallel. 120g dead weight removed from the tail.

This plane should have never been designed / marketed to run from a single 6S 5000Mah IMO. A modern (heavy EPO) twin 70mm jet needs 2 batteries.
I strongly recommend this mod, for the following reasons:
- Easier to setup the proper CG. It's nearly impossible to get a good (not nose heavy CG) with a single pack on this jet.
- Less voltage sag, more power, even on stock motors
- Easier on the batteries, the wiring and connectors. 150A should be ran off 2 packs.
- More flight time"

https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?3441361-New-E-Flite-SU-30/page196

[radfordc]

I did the dual batt mod today. First, removed the air brake servo and cut away as much foam from side walls as possible. Rewired the ESC's so as to have each one connected to a separate battery...like the Mig-29 does. Total weigh is up to 10.5 lbs, CG is at 150mm. Test fly tomorrow.

[radfordc]

And...now I'm happy with this plane! The dual batteries make this thing fly like it should....good performance (with the FMS fans) and 4 min's flight time. Flys very much like the FW Mig-29.

https://youtu.be/7bVTUMZGa6U

[xviper]

Are you using 2 X 4000 mah batteries? I use a single 5000mah and get about 3.5 min. I'm surprised you get only 4 min. with 8000mah. I would have thought you could break 5 min with that much battery in there. It was amazing to see it lift off grass with the extra weight, even with stronger fans. It did appear to land very fast with no air brake.

[radfordc]

Are you using 2 X 4000 mah batteries? I use a single 5000mah and get about 3.5 min. I'm surprised you get only 4 min. with 8000mah. I would have thought you could break 5 min with that much battery in there. It was amazing to see it lift off grass with the extra weight, even with stronger fans. It did appear to land very fast with no air brake.

With 5000 batts I flew 2:30 and they were at 5% charge. Also the batts were extremely hot, as was the EC5 connector. I'm sure that the two FMS fans pull over the 120 amp spec for the EC5...maybe close to 150. With two separate batteries each EC5 only sees about 75 amps max.

It was a zero wind morning so I made sure to keep my landing speed up a little. I never found the air brake to be of much use. I find flying with two 4000 batts to be great. With just easy flying I'm sure I could come close to 6 min's.

[radfordc]

I am so happy with this jet now! When I first flew it I thought this was my least favorite plane ever. Now it's one of my all time best. All it took was throwing some cash at the problem....upgraded FMS fans and dual 6s batts. Today flying off unmowed grass in dead calm the jet took off like it was on asphalt. Fast and smooth in the air with plenty of vertical climb performance makes flying fun. What a turn around. My only issue now is I only have enough 6s 4000 packs for two flights a day. Easy peasy....more cash!

[Hugh Wiedman]

I am so happy with this jet now! When I first flew it I thought this was my least favorite plane ever. Now it's one of my all time best. All it took was throwing some cash at the problem....upgraded FMS fans and dual 6s batts. Today flying off unmowed grass in dead calm the jet took off like it was on asphalt. Fast and smooth in the air with plenty of vertical climb performance makes flying fun. What a turn around!

Agreed, amazing what a difference the right amount of horsepower makes, especially on grass! I almost peed my pants the first time I took off with these fans since it got off so quickly, I was shocked and not ready for it. Felt the same, went from being mothballed and stuck in the attic to earning a spot in the regular EDF rotation. Haven't gone the dual batts route yet, kudos for thinking of it. I'm content at this point to use an SMC 5300, which weighs only 704 grams and tests out to an actual C of 40, as advertised. Getting just under 3:30 flight time, so I'll play around with that for a bit in the meantime.

Shame on HH for sending this out with those God Awful E-Flight fans in them, no doubt their shortsighted plan to save a few bucks resulted in lackluster sales of this aircraft as a lot of people called it an "Underpowered Bus" (well me, anyway)!

[radfordc]

I flew 4:30 this morning and the batteries were at 30 percent.

[Hugh Wiedman]

I flew 4:30 this morning and the batteries were at 30 percent.

Outstanding, what is the total weight of the 2 4000 mah batteries you are using. I ask this, because I've got several SMC 8100 mah 20 C batteries (which test out to 22C, which is higher than a RT 70C/HRB 50C/Admiral 50C) that weigh in at 903 gr that I use in my F-16 which has the 12 blade inrunner in it. On that, I get 5 minutes of flight time and was thinking of trying it in the SU-30. The only down side is the extra weight (all in the nose) moving the CG from 150 mm to something like 120 mm. For you having 1/2 your battery weight in the speed brake compartment closer to the balance point has to make it much easier to get the CG where you want it.

[radfordc]

The two 4000s weight 1190 grams total. But, I can maintain the CG at 150mm with no additional weight in the tail beyond the stock weigh that comes installed originally. The total flying weight of the plane is 10.5 lbs. That seems very heavy compared to the original stock configuration with one 5000 battery. But the plane doesn't fly "heavy"...it flys fast and when you pull nose up it climbs with authority. Yes, the new FMS fans provide more punch; but I think having each fan motor on a separate 6s battery prevents the voltage sag caused by trying to draw 120-150 amps from one battery. I'm flying at 50% throttle for most of the flight except when going vertical...ie, steep climbs, loops, cuban 8s, etc. I haven't tried the slow, high AoA, "Harrier" type stuff and this plane may not excel at that. My Su-35 does that sort of stuff real well....of course it flys about 3-4 pounds less weight.