Official Freewing MiG-29 Fulcrum Twin 80mm Thread

[fredmdbud]

Wax pencils or crayon could work, too

[SanExup]

Yep….may require a little foam removal from the inside of the lid.

Paint some lipstick onto the top 4 corners of your middle battery and place the canopy on lightly. Then look inside and you will see where the foam removal is needed. Typically, only a little removal is needed.

-GG

PS - Lipstick is easy to wipe off and marks the foam well. Your color of choice…..LOL

Is this the lead in to a 'putting lipstick on a Mig' joke?

[GliderGuy]

Is this the lead in to a 'putting lipstick on a Mig' joke?

OK guys...I deserve the ribbing!

But seriously, I didn't have any crayons or wax pencils handy. My daughter-in-law was visiting, and I borrowed her lipstick. It worked GREAT for marking where the battery hit against the foam. BTW, she said I could keep the lipstick because she didn't want it back. Imagine that!!??

-GG

[themudduck]

Hey guys, so I've been through about 150 pages of this thread. If I read correctly so far..nothing really set in stone as to the cause of the loss of elevator authority.
Also that motion/freewing have not really responded to alleged issue, other than the upgraded servos they shipped out(thank you MRC/FW)
Now that I have suitable sight to fly this bird, I will implement the upgrades you have all posted. I'd like to thank you all for contributing to safer flying of the Mig

So many posts - we waited for a LONG time for Motion to weigh in. I can't point it out for you but Motion did finally post some time ago with some recommendations which were somewhat helpful. It seems that there is more than one cause for the problems (which is sometimes the case with such things). Anyway here is what they recommended:
- use more powerful elevator servos (which come with the plane now. They promised an upgrade kit but its not available yet)
- never fly with full flaps at high speed (can blank out the elevators and it also can force the plane down)
- don't activate the gear and the flaps at the same time and don't use the function on your radio to slow down flap deployment past 3 seconds The 8-amp BEC is already supplying voltage to the receiver and the other control surfaces, and when you activate the flaps and LG at the same time there is the potential that the extra load can cause a voltage-drop situation (which can cause the elevator servos to stop working). Some people had flaps set to more than 7 seconds. They explained that digital servos draw the same amount of current even when they are running slowly. I didn't know that!

I think its sound advice.... so what I do is when landing: I slow the plane down and deploy the LG first, that creates some drag... I wait for the LG to complete the entire cycle (3 gears and 2 doors) then I set 1/2 flaps and let the plane slow down some more. Then after the plane has slowed down I set full flaps on final approach. This has worked well for me.

I also use chokes (as recommended by GliderGuy) and two capacitors on the AL3 Gyro (the capacitors can supply a little juice in a sudden low-voltage situation).
And, I am using HD elevator pushrods and the inner hole position on the elevator servos. So far I haven't tried reflex.
I wanted to install HD wires to the elevator servos but on my plane, the elevator wire is glued in on one side and I couldn't remove it....

I don't understand why they don't supply us with a larger BEC, like 10 or 12 amps, seems like it would provide some headspace. But anyway I haven't had any problems since doing these mods. I love this plane!

[Daryl]

So many posts - we waited for a LONG time for Motion to weigh in. I can't point it out for you but Motion did finally post some time ago with some recommendations which were somewhat helpful. It seems that there is more than one cause for the problems (which is sometimes the case with such things). Anyway here is what they recommended:
- use more powerful elevator servos (which come with the plane now. They promised an upgrade kit but its not available yet)
- never fly with full flaps at high speed (can blank out the elevators and it also can force the plane down)
- don't activate the gear and the flaps at the same time and don't use the function on your radio to slow down flap deployment past 3 seconds The 8-amp BEC is already supplying voltage to the receiver and the other control surfaces, and when you activate the flaps and LG at the same time there is the potential that the extra load can cause a voltage-drop situation (which can cause the elevator servos to stop working). Some people had flaps set to more than 7 seconds. They explained that digital servos draw the same amount of current even when they are running slowly. I didn't know that!

I think its sound advice.... so what I do is when landing: I slow the plane down and deploy the LG first, that creates some drag... I wait for the LG to complete the entire cycle (3 gears and 2 doors) then I set 1/2 flaps and let the plane slow down some more. Then after the plane has slowed down I set full flaps on final approach. This has worked well for me.

I also use chokes (as recommended by GliderGuy) and two capacitors on the AL3 Gyro (the capacitors can supply a little juice in a sudden low-voltage situation).
And, I am using HD elevator pushrods and the inner hole position on the elevator servos. So far I haven't tried reflex.
I wanted to install HD wires to the elevator servos but on my plane, the elevator wire is glued in on one side and I couldn't remove it....

I don't understand why they don't supply us with a larger BEC, like 10 or 12 amps, seems like it would provide some headspace. But anyway I haven't had any problems since doing these mods. I love this plane!

thank you!

[Airguardian]

does anyone else have problems fitting the canopy back after putting the batteries in the middle and rear trays? im using run of the mill 6s 5000 packs but there doesnt seem to be enough room to get the hatch down over them securely

Just as mentioned I had to carve a fair bit fo foam to make mine fit, but I am using Panther 6S 5Ah packs which are huge and heavy.

Sooooo smooth! Suggestion for a future video: Inset showing your movements of the sticks in synch with the plane’s motion.

Been there, done that, just not yet with the MiG-29 but I will heed your suggestion for sure! ;)

In the meantime, here's what you asked for, just with other models:

There are videos showing pilots constantly jockeying the sticks (being not smooth) who could use your smoothness of control as evidence that stick jostling isn’t the way to do it correctly.

My dad was a WWII flight instructor and when came time to teach me to fly full scale planes, he harped on being a smooth pilot.

I think there's a place for both types of control actions. Sometimes, 'smooth' is more warranted, but under certain conditions, violtent 'short-impulse' input may work better or achieve the desired result more satisfactorily. I try to fly with a combination of both, each takes its own set of skills to develop and master. ;)

[GliderGuy]

Thanks AG! Yes, I should have stated “smooth or purposeful”. Agreed….acro can require both. However, even your quick/purposeful movements have very little randomness.

Your split screen videos are good instructional examples.

-GG

[kallend]

I think there's a place for both types of control actions. Sometimes, 'smooth' is more warranted, but under certain conditions, violtent 'short-impulse' input may work better or achieve the desired result more satisfactorily. I try to fly with a combination of both, each takes its own set of skills to develop and master. ;)

I would suggest as examples: a slow roll wants to be very smooth, and a 4 point or 8 point hesitation roll wants to have crisp movements with abrupt, well defined "points".

[Airguardian]

Was thinking more about extreme post-stall stuff, including cobras, kulbits, hooks, loaded rolls, flat spins, tailslides, square-loops... But yeah!
Ultimately you really need to master a combination of all and know when each applies better ;)

Sustained high alpha is noteworthy here, as it often is better to just leave the jet to its natural dynamics with the absolute minimal input you can live with as a pilot, but then in other conditions, you require sharp 'impulse' commands to get the desired effects. This is very dependant on aircraft, setup, AoA, gyro settings (if any) etc. So there's not quite a 'one rule fits all' IMO. :)

[Phantom]

So many posts - we waited for a LONG time for Motion to weigh in. I can't point it out for you but Motion did finally post some time ago with some recommendations which were somewhat helpful. It seems that there is more than one cause for the problems (which is sometimes the case with such things). Anyway here is what they recommended:
- use more powerful elevator servos (which come with the plane now. They promised an upgrade kit but its not available yet)
- never fly with full flaps at high speed (can blank out the elevators and it also can force the plane down)
- don't activate the gear and the flaps at the same time and don't use the function on your radio to slow down flap deployment past 3 seconds The 8-amp BEC is already supplying voltage to the receiver and the other control surfaces, and when you activate the flaps and LG at the same time there is the potential that the extra load can cause a voltage-drop situation (which can cause the elevator servos to stop working). Some people had flaps set to more than 7 seconds. They explained that digital servos draw the same amount of current even when they are running slowly. I didn't know that!

I think its sound advice.... so what I do is when landing: I slow the plane down and deploy the LG first, that creates some drag... I wait for the LG to complete the entire cycle (3 gears and 2 doors) then I set 1/2 flaps and let the plane slow down some more. Then after the plane has slowed down I set full flaps on final approach. This has worked well for me.

I also use chokes (as recommended by GliderGuy) and two capacitors on the AL3 Gyro (the capacitors can supply a little juice in a sudden low-voltage situation).
And, I am using HD elevator pushrods and the inner hole position on the elevator servos. So far I haven't tried reflex.
I wanted to install HD wires to the elevator servos but on my plane, the elevator wire is glued in on one side and I couldn't remove it....

I don't understand why they don't supply us with a larger BEC, like 10 or 12 amps, seems like it would provide some headspace. But anyway I haven't had any problems since doing these mods. I love this plane!

If you deployed the half flaps prior to the gear then flaps full, you'd be flying like the full size birds!

The reason for this is to reconfigure the camber on the wing to add equal drag as well as lift, so when you deploy the gear, pure drag, you won't have to add power in order to maintain altitude while you slow down, because you've already increased lift with half flaps, additionally you've added more drag than with gear alone. Realistically, hinged flaps beyond about 35° add more drag that lift.

My 2 cents

[Airguardian]

Well, not all birds use flaps in the same fashion...

Here you have a Su-35 deploying gear and flaps simultaneously (arguably gear before flaps).

Time mark 7:10

Of course, flaps first, gear later is the usual thing to do, but it's not a universal rule, so to speak.

[Phantom]

Too true!

[Airguardian]

New MiG videos, enjoy!

[viper1gj]

Of course, flaps first, gear later is the usual thing to do, but it's not a universal rule, so to speak.

True, in the full scale F-16 the gear and flaps are both on the gear handle switch. When gear goes down the flaperons drop to 30 degrees. I usually fly my Mig-29 by slowing first and dropping gear followed by half flaps, then full flaps just before starting final turn. Thrust as required to control descent rate in final turn and on final approach with reduction to idle just prior to touchdown in the flare.

[viper1gj]

Here's another cool turbine conversion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lo2PjDafxr8

[themudduck]

If you deployed the half flaps prior to the gear then flaps full, you'd be flying like the full size birds!

The reason for this is to reconfigure the camber on the wing to add equal drag as well as lift, so when you deploy the gear, pure drag, you won't have to add power in order to maintain altitude while you slow down, because you've already increased lift with half flaps, additionally you've added more drag than with gear alone. Realistically, hinged flaps beyond about 35° add more drag that lift.

My 2 cents

Well sometimes I use 1/2 flaps when I am beginning to slow down, then I deploy the gear. The point is that I don't do them both at the same time. This is in compliance with Motion's suggestion, which makes a lot of sense to me.
When you activate the gear, you have 3 servos drawing current for some time, perhaps 6,7,8 seconds or more and then there are two doors. (on my model I did the mod to sequence the doors so they shut).
Motion recommended not activate the flaps (with a delay) at the same time as the gear. So, I deploy one, then the other after the first one is completely finished. In either order!

I don't use full flaps until just before landing (when I am on straight final approach) because they really function mainly as air brakes (adding drag, more so than lift). Full flaps for me are set at around 70 degrees. They don't affect the trim at all and help to slow the plane down. Of course the throttle needs to be used to compensate for the drag.

[Airguardian]

This was a while ago... I commented it but here's the video, this is what happens when you inadvertently get into a 'high alpha lock' while on final.

I repaired the jet in no time and she's made about 40 flights since so no need to cry other than for my wounded pride...

Hope the video makes you laugh a bit!
There are many replays of the crash at the end of the video processed at different speeds and zooms to give a better idea of what's going on throughout.

Have fun, and be careful with the jet's thrustline! ;)

PS: Hugh Wiedman, Maybe you don't want to watch this one for previously discussed issues regarding my infallibility as a superhuman being...

[Hugh Wiedman]

PS: Hugh Wiedman, Maybe you don't want to watch this one for previously discussed issues regarding my infallibility as a superhuman being...

No change in opinion, all you were doing was testing out any aerodynamic issues for the rest of us, just as an good test pilot would do! RudyD54 did virtually the exact same thing while I was spotting him a few months ago (clearly it was my fault giving him bad advice), with not coincidentally, virtually the same result.

[GliderGuy]

Thanks AG, instructional as always.

Be aware that a slow approach may not be the only thing that causes a high alpha lock. I was on base leg and hit a gust that pitched the nose up…she locked up.

And, I was at a normal pattern speed and low-ish throttle setting. Killing the power and letting the nose fall through was the only option. Lucky that enough altitude was in hand (but not by much)…instinctive recovery was below a tree line while out of sight.

I am now VERY attentive to any pitch-up in the pattern and immediately counter it.

-GG

[Airguardian]

Right!
Still it would also help to have more pitch-down throws available which on the Freewing bird are limited by the lack of the scale shaft being implemented plus the leading edge root section of the stab is fixed to the fuselage so when the stab pitches down, there's more clearance so that the stab doesn't rub with the fin. That last part should be easy enough to mod... but am a lazy dog.

No change in opinion, all you were doing was testing out any aerodynamic issues for the rest of us, just as an good test pilot would do!

Oh, yes... right, right, that was totally it!