Official Freewing 90mm F-16 Falcon Thread

[Aros]

I have been keeping my fingers crossed that the next 90mm to get the high performance option with the 1835kv inrunner would be the F16. Buying it all separate gets pretty expensive. Since you are buying it all separate, and you make the pages for the website, clearly there isn't a high performance F16 right around the corner! Also, I don't know how it works out with your employee discount, but for us peasant customers, it is only $5 more to buy the PNP and the 1835kv inrunner than to buy the ARF+ with the esc and inrunner all separate. Then, you could sell off the stock outrunner to recoup a few dollars. (Can you tell I have been considering the F16 for a while??)

Yeah, unfortunately I haven't heard of the 90mm F-16 getting ready to get the High Performance/Inrunner treatment as of yet. That could change though. As for the PNP...Dang, I didn't even think of that! I was so in my head about the ARF+! Drat, that would have been a great idea. Ah, well...Next time!

[Bellke]

After all the issues I was having with this plane (all on me, not the plane), I finally got it in the air this past weekend. It actually wasn't bad either, minor trim and it seemed to be locked in. I was worried about the weight and what I had seen on several of the YouTube videos had me concerned it was going to be really tough to get off the ground and then a booger to land, but the weight actually settled it down and while the landing was a little quick, with practice I think it can slow down reasonably well. The 1st flight was on the stock motor and while it wasn't overly impressive, it did fly well at half throttle. I think 3 min is the perfect time for a 5000mh battery. I ended up at 4:05 because the time initially got away from me and then I had to make 2 landing attempts. I was impressed at the high alpha and the smooth landing. I've got a couple of 6000 batteries and after reading DCorsair's post it's good to know the CG isn't affected. BTW, I used 120mm as the CG and it seemed to spot on. Slight elevator trim which I'm sure goes back to my setup and it was good to go. I kept hearing it's not a bad plane and I think DCorsair and Hugh are right. Ignore the negative videos and things will be fine.

[gooniac33]

Alright, rain and wife be damned I ordered the ARF+, 12 blade 4068-1835Kv Inrunner and 130A ESC...Bring on the Arctic Camo paint and some warmer temps!

Atta boy!!! I am really considering doing the same... My F-104 is so picky with flying conditions and may need to get a new home. I kinda want a Thunderbird to give the Gooniac Treatment!!

[James]

Atta boy!!! I am really considering doing the same... My F-104 is so picky with flying conditions and may need to get a new home. I kinda want a Thunderbird to give the Gooniac Treatment!!

[DCORSAIR]

Have to say, the T-Bird is an excellent choice, had two of them and for some reason, just maybe because of the airshow colors, both seeemed to fly better than the gray version........

[Aros]

Good thing I am painting mine Arctic Aggressor then.

[Hugh Wiedman]

After all the issues I was having with this plane (all on me, not the plane), I finally got it in the air this past weekend. It actually wasn't bad either, minor trim and it seemed to be locked in. I was worried about the weight and what I had seen on several of the YouTube videos had me concerned it was going to be really tough to get off the ground and then a booger to land, but the weight actually settled it down and while the landing was a little quick, with practice I think it can slow down reasonably well. The 1st flight was on the stock motor and while it wasn't overly impressive, it did fly well at half throttle. I think 3 min is the perfect time for a 5000mh battery. I ended up at 4:05 because the time initially got away from me and then I had to make 2 landing attempts. I was impressed at the high alpha and the smooth landing. I've got a couple of 6000 batteries and after reading DCorsair's post it's good to know the CG isn't affected. BTW, I used 120mm as the CG and it seemed to spot on. Slight elevator trim which I'm sure goes back to my setup and it was good to go. I kept hearing it's not a bad plane and I think DCorsair and Hugh are right. Ignore the negative videos and things will be fine.

Get that 6000 in it with the same 120 cm and you'll never go back to the 5000. I had to put 1 ounce of lead in the nose to cg at 120mm with the 5000 all the way forward, and the 6000 balanced maybe 2 inches aft, so now I can remove the lead and slide the 6000 a little more forward. I think the extra LED afterburner I put on made the lead necessary in the first place. The 6000 gave me almost an extra minute with no ill effects, so now I'm comfortable with about 4:30 (unless it's a turn and burn sortie, always an extra thrill now and then). How sweet it is.

[e4dragongunner]

Ya, know.... Up until now the 90 mm F-16 is one I have avoided adding. But Thanks to all you techno Mavericks pushing the envelope, I am seriously reconsidering.
4:30 for a 90 mike mike Viper?? is AWESOME!

And you get that with Inrunner... and a 6000? Yes?

[Hugh Wiedman]

Ya, know.... Up until now the 90 mm F-16 is one I have avoided adding. But Thanks to all you techno Mavericks pushing the envelope, I am seriously reconsidering.
4:30 for a 90 mike mike Viper?? is AWESOME!

And you get that with Inrunner... and a 6000? Yes?

Si Senor, the 6000 and the in runner. Also programmed flaperons so I use less full throttle duration on take-off. Set my timer at 4:00, then if it is an "aggressive" flight, I configure to land at 1 minute left, finishing around 3:30 to 3:45. If it's a "relaxing" cruise on the 1st flight of the day, configure to land at 4:00 notice, finishing around 4:30.

[Aros]

Alright got her all ready to go. Have some questions and tried searching the thread but wasn't coming up with the info I was hoping for (it was funny/nostalgic reading my posts from nearly 5 years ago getting her ready for the original's maiden). So to avoid reading 577 posts I hope some of you don't mind indulging me with some info that I am sure has been addressed along the way. Much appreciated!

1) CG... I read recently someone saying the sweet spot was 120mm. Does that sound about right? I know we all have our preferences but I always like to hear a general consensus +/- 5mm....

2) Blinking LEDs... I see and think I remember now that by default the LEDs all blink/flash. I don't mind the tail LEDs flashing but I want the nav lights solid. I was looking at the diagram but I couldn't make sense of it. Is there a easy way to get the nav lights to solid state?

3) Throws... I assume the recommended for ailerons are too touchy...I always dial those down, especially for a maiden. Anyone have some numbers they have found like the CG that seem to be the sweet spot/range?

4) Clean/Dirty... She looks SO badass with full ordinance package and tanks! I want to fly her that way but I probably should maiden clean or at least with just the wingtip rails. Has anyone found a huge difference in flying fully clean versus fully dirty or somewhere in between? I know some jets don't seem to mind flying full dirty, maybe just a tad slower is it, but others behave entirely differently. Any thoughts on this are appreciated.

Well those are the main questions I have. I may go against my normal routine and paint her all up Arctic Camo before maidening. Primarily because the weather is garbage here in the Pacific Northwest and a maiden seems far out at this point. Might as well keep busy with painting her in my chosen livery. Temps aren't too cold at the moment. 50's...Might be doable. Thanks again for any information anyone is willing to offer!

[Hugh Wiedman]

Aros, welcome to the squadron!
My 2 cents:
1) For me, sweet spot is 118-122, anything further back and it still flies well but landing is difficult.
2) Can't help you with the blinking lights, sorry
3) I reduced the aileron rates 10%-15% (10 low, 12.5 mid, 15 high if you use 3 rates). Just the opposite on the elevator, increased rates 15-20%. For expo, although that is a highly personal item, I like 35-40%.
4) I've only flown it with the 6 missiles, and honestly did not notice much of a difference. As far as with tanks, I'm curious on that as well. May never strap them on though, with over 100 flights on my F-4s, I've yet to try it with the tanks.

Can't wait to see your Artic Camo repaint, I'm already jealous.

As I've mention earlier, you seriously may want to program flaperons. I know you fly off asphalt, so you don't need them for takeoff like I did to get off grass. Where they do help is reducing the draining of the battery on takeoff (shorter full thrust duration) and an easier climb to get some maneuvering altirude. Every little bit of extra flight time is like a gift from heaven. Oh yah, helps on landing slow high alpha as well.

[Hugh Wiedman]

Oh, one last thing. Like all planes, a nice, slow acceleration on takeoff is preferred, but with this jet, even more so. It's like driving a winnebago, not a Ferrari. Punching it on takeoff only drains the battery quicker without benefit. I only have it at full throttle the last 30 feet or so, then raise it off at a shallow angle of attack, retract the gear, and when it's about 20 feet off the ground reduce it to say 70%, and finish out the climb and initial turn with takeoff flaps still deployed and then cut to say 60% as I enter the first downwind leg and return flaps to up position. I'm sure this is normal procedure for everyone, but it took me a while to figure it out, and I've seen way to many guys yank it off the ground at a high angle of attack and it just doesn't look right!

[Aros]

Good stuff Hugh, thanks for the response! Did you increase the elevator throw from recommended due to personal style or did you feel this model needs the extra throw on pitch?

On the blinking lights, do you mean you too haven't figured it out, or do you just mean you don't mind them flashing? Finally, I do plan on mixing flaperons...What kind of throws have you found effective? I usually program my flaps for takeoff and landing mode. Thanks again!

[Hugh Wiedman]

1) I increased the elevator throws because I felt it needed it, not for takeoff, but for better response getting it into high alpha.
2) On the blinking lights, I don't mind them so haven't investigated making the wing tips solid-actually too busy worrying about other items to get there. Would like the wing tips solid though.
3) Me too, on takeoff flaps I set the deflection at 15mm and landing at 22mm. You could go a little more if you like as this is more modest than usual for me (ala your and my Corsair). If I remember, the manual suggests 25 on both but didn't want to over-extend the aileron servo at full flaps, although with the aileron throws slightly reduced, I'm not likely to pull a full aileron roll at full flaps anyway.

[Phantom]

I have mine set up for 3 flight modes on a single 3 way toggle switch.

1. Flaperons at 15% and conventional elevator, used for take off and high wind landings.

2. Conventional setup aileron and elevator for enroute flight.

3. Full deflection flaps, no ailerons or flaperons and elevons for the tail, with about 15% of rudder mixed in with the elevons being the master. This is for normal landings. I've got a few hours watching the full scale birds land at Kunsan and Osan AFB over here and about half of all the real world landings I've witnessed up close and personal aren't the most graceful touchdowns. For my model, full non moving flaps and an all moving tail with a wee bit of rudder mixed in gives me the slowest most stable landings I've experienced with my limited time flying this F-16. I've been flying it on these flight modes since the 3rd flight and I like it. When using full flaps my F-16 lands more like the Mirage 2000.

[DCORSAIR]

Aros, welcome to the squadron!
My 2 cents:
1) For me, sweet spot is 118-122, anything further back and it still flies well but landing is difficult.
2) Can't help you with the blinking lights, sorry
3) I reduced the aileron rates 10%-15% (10 low, 12.5 mid, 15 high if you use 3 rates). Just the opposite on the elevator, increased rates 15-20%. For expo, although that is a highly personal item, I like 35-40%.
4) I've only flown it with the 6 missiles, and honestly did not notice much of a difference. As far as with tanks, I'm curious on that as well. May never strap them on though, with over 100 flights on my F-4s, I've yet to try it with the tanks.

Can't wait to see your Artic Camo repaint, I'm already jealous.

As I've mention earlier, you seriously may want to program flaperons. I know you fly off asphalt, so you don't need them for takeoff like I did to get off grass. Where they do help is reducing the draining of the battery on takeoff (shorter full thrust duration) and an easier climb to get some maneuvering altirude. Every little bit of extra flight time is like a gift from heaven. Oh yah, helps on landing slow high alpha as well.

If you do try the tanks, be careful. I have tried the tanks several times and have never got it to fly right, the elevator is the issue, it will fly with them on but the elevator feels weird and after adjusting my CG several ways, I never became comfortable with them, I personally think they block out some of the elevator airflow, thats what it feels like to me, if you watch videos of this jet flying you sure don't see anyone bragging on how great this jet flies with the tanks on, missles and all that are fine, but not those huge tanks. I don't use all those fancy mixes or anything like that, remember, the fuselage is an airbrake basically, use it.

[PaulZ]

Good stuff Hugh, thanks for the response! Did you increase the elevator throw from recommended due to personal style or did you feel this model needs the extra throw on pitch?

On the blinking lights, do you mean you too haven't figured it out, or do you just mean you don't mind them flashing? Finally, I do plan on mixing flaperons...What kind of throws have you found effective? I usually program my flaps for takeoff and landing mode. Thanks again!

Regarding the lights - there are no always-on ports on the control board so you bave two options:
1) Solder a 100ohm resistor in series with each LED that you want to stay on and y-connect them to any free port on the board to the positive and negative terminal. Note that Freewing LEDs don't have resistors in line, these are on the control boards.
2) If you have a spare one, use the Freewing big blue box (MCB-E I think). It has more features than the one that comes with the f-16 control board. That way you will have all the light options including always-on and additionally a nose stearing port that shuts off when the gear is retracted.

[Aros]

Good stuff folks, again I appreciate all the responses and information! I did learn last night that the real F-16's lights are in fact blinking most the time. So it turns out to be a scale feature, even though it looks "off" to some, like me. I will just keep them as they are, especially knowing that it mimics the full scale. DCORSAIR yeah that's my thoughts about the tanks too. She looks tough as nails with them on but I think they are more a static feature than meant for flight. Looking back in my archives I see that I flew mine with tanks and ordinance on the maiden and early flights which might help explain at least partially why I was having a hell of a time with landings the first few attempts.

[Aros]

Was able to maiden today after all. The clouds parted, the sun came out and off we went!

Flew with ordinance but no tanks. Used a 6S Roaring Top 5500mAh, CG was at 120mm. I decided to increase the elevator throw a bit on the low rates..I took off on low rates and let her gain speed and she ate up 3/4 of the track as I kept giving more back pressure still wasn't lifting off so I had to jam the elevator full back and she finally popped up for a pretty un-scale takeoff, lol. Once I got the nose back down and settled her in she felt a bit nose heavy...Had to add several clicks of up to get her flying level. Ailerons still felt a bit too twitchy for me even on low rates (a problem I had with the HSD 105mm as well) but all-in-all she flew great. I am going to drop in my Demon gyro in her, seems like a great candidate.

The landing was perfectly imperfect. Came in too high and too hot so I chopped the throttle and tried kicking the nose up but she just wanted to stay flat and float...I finally coaxed her down to a flatter landing than I was hoping. But the landing wasn't too bad, nor too hard. Just not the high alpha scale landing I wanted to achieve. I get its a learning curve with any new model so I look forward to figuring out her likes and dislikes.

I didn't have flaperons and I definitely plan on adding them, especially where we fly (at a school track). I felt like she was a touch too nose heavy and might explore 125mm next time or so. I had the RunCam2 on the top of the canopy and I know that can affect CG a little, but how much I am not certain on this model. I thought I recorded the flight onboard but I guess I didn't hit the button right to activate the recording. Dang it. Next time.

She's in one piece, the landing gear didn't take an unnecessary beating so I am happy!

[Hugh Wiedman]

Congratulations, all in all, a success. Before you move the CG back any, try the flaperons for take off first. Same thing happened with me at the beginning, no flaps and it ate the runway up, in fact, first run it did not get off. I'm on grass and it was wet making it worse. Proceeded to move the battery back each flight to help it get off, but that didn't seem to matter. Over 4 flights of moving it back each time, it got back around 134 mm cg and didn't help take off but landing was impossible (at a certain low speed, the nose rises up without any elevator input, the plane rises, the wings simultaneously stall and then it drops like a rock- all right before your eyes as if it's possessed).

Part of the problem with take off is the slight nose down attitude it has on the gear, I think.

Then for the next 4 flights I moved the battery forward to 122mm cg where I started with (which was recommended by several guys here), used takeoff flaps and it was a completely different animal. The landing flaps also helped tremendously with a smooth high alpha touch down. With 1/2 flaps it gets off the grass in the same distance as my 2 stock F'4s.

You will really enjoy a gyro as well. I installed the AR636 with gyro and it flies smooth as a baby's bottom. Gains for fly around are 25-30-35 (R-P-Y) and for take off and landing I have the gains cranked up to around 70-75-80.

Try those 2 things first (flaperons & gyro) before you change the cg much from the 120 range. And if you want a shorter take off, you can always try full flaps, but even on grass and the 6000 battery I haven't needed to, 1/2 worked fine for me.

Now get back out there and get er done.