Official Freewing 90mm F-16 Falcon Thread

[Aros]

Good advice! I think you nailed it Hugh. She needs flaperons especially for my environment. Adding a gyro will almost feel like cheating as she is a solid bird as is. But I feel the benefits outweigh any negatives (not that I think a gyro has any negatives). I will heed your advice and keep the CG but try the sop****re flight with flaperons. Something tells me I will exclaim, "Eureka!" I agree on the slight nose down attitude on takeoff as well. That, overall weight and ordinance can conspire for a longer takeoff roll than one would like.

Looking forward to the next flight! Which looks like a month away. Stupid weather. :pleading_face:

[Hugh Wiedman]

In the meantime, don't get discouraged and start thinking, gee, everyone said this flew heavy, why did I get talked into buying it again. Trust me, with the flaperons you'll be singing it's praises.

On the other hand, you may be saying Damn, I'm never listening to that moron again. :triumph:

[Aros]

HA! Never...I know this is a sweet bird, but has a higher wing load than others and that's okay...The reward is mastering her from takeoff to touchdown. And that's always the most fun part! If I wanted hands off flying I would have ordered another Avanti S!

[Phantom]

HA! Never...I know this is a sweet bird, but has a higher wing load than others and that's okay...The reward is mastering her from takeoff to touchdown. And that's always the most fun part! If I wanted hands off flying I would have ordered another Avanti S!

I'm reading your conversation and wondering why I never have this pitch up you folks are referring to when I reduce power on base to final. I'm really perplexed because I'm happiest with the CG at 122 to 124. I thought perhaps it's the rate at which I reduced the throttle....

Then it hit me, everything I've read on here speaks to limiting the flap/flaperons travel due to blocking out the elevators. I use flaps with as much travel as I can and an all moving tail,(elevons) for landing and have never felt any loss of authority out of my stabilizers.

I believe now that I don't have that pitch up on final when the power is reduced due to the full non- moving flaps. They cause the nose to pitch down effectively cancelling out the pitch up you folks are talking about. At 15% for take off flaps they create more lift than drag and cause the nose to be light as ground speed increases and they start creating lift. This allows for very scale takeoffs, very pretty on this model. At full flaps the nose does the opposite and has a pitch down effect due to the drag being so far back.

If what I'm observing is correct, it actually makes this model very hands off to fly. I've only got 5 flights with this configuration. The drag on base to final keeps your angle of attack nose down, and as the speed bleeds off and the drag is reduced she settles into a nice nose high attitude for landing.

[Aros]

Forgive me if I misunderstood but are you saying you use tailerons in conjunction with flaperons for final approach? In my instance, I had neither, and had zero pitch up on base to final. In fact, the opposite. She was fast and floaty and try as I might, I couldn't get her into that high alpha stance we all covet, and instead she landed pretty flat. We may be talking about two different things so I apologize if I misinterpreted your comments.

[Phantom]

Forgive me if I misunderstood but are you saying you use tailerons in conjunction with flaperons for final approach? In my instance, I had neither, and had zero pitch up on base to final. In fact, the opposite. She was fast and floaty and try as I might, I couldn't get her into that high alpha stance we all covet, and instead she landed pretty flat. We may be talking about two different things so I apologize if I misinterpreted your comments.

Affirm for everything but high winds I use tailerons with I described as elevons in post 580, but in this configuration I don't use Flaperons, I use full non-moving flaps. Below is my #580 post which is how I have my F-16 set up...

I have mine set up for 3 flight modes on a single 3 way toggle switch.

1. Flaperons at 15% and conventional elevator, used for take off and high wind landings.

2. Conventional setup aileron and elevator for enroute flight.

3. Full deflection flaps, no ailerons or flaperons and elevons for the tail, with about 15% of rudder mixed in with the elevons being the master. This is for normal landings. I've got a few hours watching the full scale birds land at Kunsan and Osan AFB over here and about half of all the real world landings I've witnessed up close and personal aren't the most graceful touchdowns. For my model, full non moving flaps and an all moving tail with a wee bit of rudder mixed in gives me the slowest most stable landings I've experienced with my limited time flying this F-16. I've been flying it on these flight modes since the 3rd flight and I like it. When using full flaps my F-16 lands more like the Mirage 2000.

[DCORSAIR]

I will say it again and not being a know it all, I have flown this jet for 3yrs and you don't need any mixes of any kind, if you choose to do so that is great, these guys have all the mixes down and working, and that is fine, but if you stay with your CG around 118mm-120mm you will nail the landings after a little practice, you have to slow this jet down on the down wind leg, when I turn to final I see the belly and the gear, hold it in that AOA, after a little practice you will find it locked in on that final approach, once you find the right altitude you need on final, you can let her drop, it won't drop a wing but it will pancake if your to slow on the thottle so be ready, if you get it right and you time your flare and throttle just right, you will be rewarded with a nice scale touchdown on the mains, so it will fly as is right out of the box, I have proven that with my five that I've had. I suggest the next time you go out, don't raise the gear, fly it around that way for the whole battery, it will require you to hold up elevator, this is normal for this jet in slow flight, once you feel it, you will get the landings down so much easier.

I'm not saying this is the only way to fly this jet, only a suggestion if you don't like flipping switches and programming mixes.

[Hugh Wiedman]

WOW, nice to see the F-16 fan club is out in force. When I first got mine 6 months ago, it seemed this thread was almost dead. :sob:Thought this bird may be on the endangered list, but not anymore.

I'm somewhat like DCorsair, keep it simple. 120 mm cg with flaperons at 14mm deflection for take off and 23mm for landing. Any throttle below 50% requires some up elevator, and it cruises around with a slight nose up attitude.

On landing I reduce to 35% throttle which gives a nice smooth glide path and HAO, but still enough speed that it doesn't go to ground without your permission. Once 2 feet off the ground and where I want it to touch down, I reduce throttle further and ease in up elevator to get a nice nose up 2 pointer. Not always, but the majority of the time as brain farts are quite common with me and happen randomly, causing a "why did I just do that".

Whatever works for you is best as I'm sure there are many ways to "skin this cat".

[Aros]

I will say it again and not being a know it all, I have flown this jet for 3yrs and you don't need any mixes of any kind, if you choose to do so that is great, these guys have all the mixes down and working, and that is fine, but if you stay with your CG around 118mm-120mm you will nail the landings after a little practice, you have to slow this jet down on the down wind leg, when I turn to final I see the belly and the gear, hold it in that AOA, after a little practice you will find it locked in on that final approach, once you find the right altitude you need on final, you can let her drop, it won't drop a wing but it will pancake if your to slow on the thottle so be ready, if you get it right and you time your flare and throttle just right, you will be rewarded with a nice scale touchdown on the mains, so it will fly as is right out of the box, I have proven that with my five that I've had. I suggest the next time you go out, don't raise the gear, fly it around that way for the whole battery, it will require you to hold up elevator, this is normal for this jet in slow flight, once you feel it, you will get the landings down so much easier.

I'm not saying this is the only way to fly this jet, only a suggestion if you don't like flipping switches and programming mixes.

I like your style buddy. I hate mixes (because I suck at them, lol) and I love flying stock whenever possible. I may attempt her again bone stock. The only thing that makes me want flaperons is to shorten the takeoff roll mainly. It was spooky watching her almost run into the chain link fence at the end of the track before being able to rotate! Maybe I was too conservative with the power...I heard someone say not to goose her right out of the gate, but maybe I should have her at 100% power a bit sooner...

[Hugh Wiedman]

15mm of flaperons at take off will ease the spookyness. :ghost:

[Hugh Wiedman]

Don't forget the ailerons run the entire length of the trailing edge, so a little flap deflection gives a lot of extra lift.

[Aros]

Flaperons activated! I have 15mm set for takeoff and around 18/20mm for landing...If the weather holds I will attempt another sortie, this time with video!

[Hugh Wiedman]

Flaperons activated! I have 15mm set for takeoff and around 18/20mm for landing...If the weather holds I will attempt another sortie, this time with video!

Outstanding airman, carry on, can't wait for your video.:f16:

[DCORSAIR]

I like your style buddy. I hate mixes (because I suck at them, lol) and I love flying stock whenever possible. I may attempt her again bone stock. The only thing that makes me want flaperons is to shorten the takeoff roll mainly. It was spooky watching her almost run into the chain link fence at the end of the track before being able to rotate! Maybe I was too conservative with the power...I heard someone say not to goose her right out of the gate, but maybe I should have her at 100% power a bit sooner...

Oh yes, goose her right out of the gate with full up elevator and see what happens, I gurantee you a very short take off, I watch the nose wheel as it gets light and starts to bounce a little, then relax some of that up elevator a little and instead of a pop off the runway, it will lift off nicely, I flip my retract switch for up when I see the rotation about to happen, the gear are going up as soon as it leaves the runway, not recommended until you get used to when it rotates, not bragging by no means but I have hundreds of flights on this jet and know what it likes and dislikes, another enjoyment I like, I get bored easy I guess, do a high speed pass into a large full throttle loop, at the half way point of the loop, flip your retract switch and you roll it over and cut your power alll the way off, keep the nose pointed down but not enough to build up to much speed, she will do the best power off landings you have ever seen........

As you can see, I love this jet, just sold my last one and going back into scale helis for a little bit, but when I return this jet will be the first one I purchase again, maybe even get one to have new in the box, hope they don't discontinue this one anytime soon.

As Hugh said in his post earlier, 2 feet off the ground is where it all happens with this jet, get that right and you will nail every one of your landings.

[Phantom]

I'm not a mixer switch guy usually either, but I fly from an "aircraft carrier" so runway is at a premium. You make the deck and don't run off the other side or you take your bird home in a bag, no arresting cable to catch either lol. I could add brakes to the F-16 but I really don't want to add any more weight to her as I've already had to go 8s due to my short runway environment as to not use up 90% of it on my take off role like on 6s.

I use flaps or flaperons for every bird I have for take off and as much drag as I can get for every landing. Flaps, gear, airbrake, and high alpha for aerodynamic braking if possible. I use 90° flaps on my Venom, 70° on my A-4, 85°on my F-5, full span flaps for my F-18, and F-14, dorsal airbrake on my F-15, and even the airbrake on my T-28 not because I need it on the T-28 but I enjoy learning to fly with all the drag devices available. I don't own a single bird that needs to come screaming in on final like it's on fire lol

[DCORSAIR]

I'm not a mixer switch guy usually either, but I fly from an "aircraft carrier" so runway is at a premium. You make the deck and don't run off the other side or you take your bird home in a bag, no arresting cable to catch either lol. I could add brakes to the F-16 but I really don't want to add any more weight to her as I've already had to go 8s due to my short runway environment as to not use up 90% of it on my take off role like on 6s.

I use flaps or flaperons for every bird I have for take off and as much drag as I can get for every landing. Flaps, gear, airbrake, and high alpha for aerodynamic braking if possible. I use 90° flaps on my Venom, 70° on my A-4, 85°on my F-5, full span flaps for my F-18, and F-14, dorsal airbrake on my F-15, and even the airbrake on my T-28 not because I need it on the T-28 but I enjoy learning to fly with all the drag devices available. I don't own a single bird that needs to come screaming in on final like it's on fire lol

[Aros]

Second flight...OUTSTANDING!

Wow flaperons were the magic ingredient! Took off MUCH better...Quicker rotation, smoother climb out...She flew like she was on rails! Gyro? What gyro? I don't need no stinking gyro, lol...

CG was fine all along. 120mm...Solid. Love the inrunner setup. Came in, dropped to full flaperons and it was like landing a trainer. Thanks again to everyone who chipped in their helpful advice.
Who has two thumbs with a big grin? This guy!

[Hugh Wiedman]

Fabulous, great video, so glad the flaperons worked out for you. :hugging: Its surprising what a difference they make on this bird. Two flights and you're already landing like a flight instructor. Bravo.

[Aros]

LOL, not sure about Flight Instructor but I accept your compliment! Many times I have poo-poo'd flaperons and mixing in general for many models but this model is a clear and obvious example of one that benefits from flaperons. It was self evident from the start. What once was a heavy wing-loaded beast has been transformed - thanks to the inrunner and flaperons - to an easy to fly scale beauty!

[Hugh Wiedman]

BTW, did you hook up a separate servo to deploy the front half of the port missile? Not sure that's quite scale, thought it needed the back end to fly to its target, but what do I know. Maybe if you add back some aileron throw and rotate at full deflection, you could deploy the front half of all of them at once.