Official Freewing 90mm F-16 Falcon Thread

[Hugh Wiedman]

I have a Radiomaster TX16S using openTX. 6 flight mode buttons I've not bothered to use but you have a pretty darn good point.

A top pilot at our club showed this to me several years ago and now I'm hooked on using it, simple to set up and makes trimming your aircraft perfectly for any configuration in flight on the maiden. No more guess work with mixes or with guessing how much elevator compensation to put in on the flap set up menu as I also use flaperons on my F-16 (which you can still use those mixes as a starting point). And I have to admit that even after the initial trimming, I find myself occasionally fine tuning it every 5-10 flights as weather conditions may change (seems hot humid days vs dry cooler days sometimes affect the orientation), I try different batteries and may not have the same CG or I even play around with the CG, and sometimes I may fly with extra ordinance or non at all, so all that may change how it flies. With the ability to trim in flight at the beginning of the sortie, it's locked in for the rest of the flight and the whole day, no matter what configuration you are in. All of our large turbine pilots and large scale warbird pilots use it (primarily because their aircraft has flaps), and I'm trying to get all our foamy electric guys with flaps to use it as well.

[Aros]

Hugh Wiedman showed me how to use FM's and it changed everything. SO handy, so much more intuitive. A hoist of favorite beverage to you Hugh!

[Thoemse]

I got a hacker streamfan 1200kv 10S lying around. Is it a crazy idea to put it into an ARF F16 using2x 4000mah Lipos. Battery weight: 950 grams.
Is there enough room and is it possible to achive the COG or is it simply a bad idea? The streamfan has a heavier motor than the typical wemotec fan so that would change the COG a bit too.

[Hugh Wiedman]

I got a hacker streamfan 1200kv 10S lying around. Is it a crazy idea to put it into an ARF F16 using2x 4000mah Lipos. Battery weight: 950 grams.
Is there enough room and is it possible to achive the COG or is it simply a bad idea? The streamfan has a heavier motor than the typical wemotec fan so that would change the COG a bit too.

I know virtually nothing about the differences in certain EDF fans, but if you can get enough thrust out of that fan, I believe the batteries will fit and the weight shouldn't be a problem. The HobbyStar 8000 mah battery I'm using weighs 910 grams and the dimension is 43mmX68mmX135mm (wxhxl). The 135 mm length still leaves a good 30-40 mm in the cockpit to move it, but the width of 68mm is to the edge of fuselage wall so nothing wider and the height of 43mm is about maximum as well.

Have no idea if the fan will fit in either. I will tell you that the 6S 12 blade inrunner fan I'm using is a 4068-1835Kv motor. So I wonder if the 1200 Kv motor will give enough thrust, but as I said, I have no idea what the thrust comparison of an 10S 1200 Kv fan would be compared to my 6S 1835 Kv fan, but my first thought is that the Hacker would not provide as much thrust simply because the Kv is so much lower (unless maybe if its something like a 16-18 blade fan).

[Thoemse]

I know virtually nothing about the differences in certain EDF fans, but if you can get enough thrust out of that fan, I believe the batteries will fit and the weight shouldn't be a problem. The HobbyStar 8000 mah battery I'm using weighs 910 grams and the dimension is 43mmX68mmX135mm (wxhxl). The 135 mm length still leaves a good 30-40 mm in the cockpit to move it, but the width of 68mm is to the edge of fuselage wall so nothing wider and the height of 43mm is about maximum as well.

Have no idea if the fan will fit in either. I will tell you that the 6S 12 blade inrunner fan I'm using is a 4068-1835Kv motor. So I wonder if the 1200 Kv motor will give enough thrust, but as I said, I have no idea what the thrust comparison of an 10S 1200 Kv fan would be compared to my 6S 1835 Kv fan, but my first thought is that the Hacker would not provide as much thrust simply because the Kv is so much lower (unless maybe if its something like a 16-18 blade fan).

It is really about size for the lipos and COG. Thrust is no issue. It's delivering 4.4kg of thrust. From experience the thrust of wemotec fans is thrustworthy and not as "optimistic" like chinese competitors are. If the lipos fit it should be a rocketship with that edf.

I'll check the dimensions. Weight seems to be no problem.

[Hugh Wiedman]

It is really about size for the lipos and COG. Thrust is no issue. It's delivering 4.4kg of thrust. From experience the thrust of wemotec fans is thrustworthy and not as "optimistic" like chinese competitors are. If the lipos fit it should be a rocketship with that edf.

I'll check the dimensions. Weight seems to be no problem.

Agreed, with enough thrust, weight is definitely not a problem with this airframe (although some complain that it flies "heavy" but I think that is with the original stock outrunner fan-at least the 12-blade inrunner has plenty of guts and I don't feel that it flies "heavy" at all, even with a battery of over 900 grams). I have no idea how much actual thrust the 4068-1835 KV inrunner has but RC Castle measures it around 4.0kg, so if that is "optimistic", then the 4.4kg for yours sounds impressive and should indeed work great. I'm flying mine at a CG of 126 mm with the gear down (back a bit from the 118mm the manual suggests). The battery bay without any trimming will accommodate something of 68 mm wide, by 45-50mm in height and a length of 210 mm. However, at that length of 210 mm you won't have much room to move the battery to affect the CG. With the 8000 mah battery I use, I've got about 10 mm I could move it further back, or 65 mm I could move it forward to adjust the CG. Hope these measurements help.

The only video I have of my F-16 in the air is attached, with the first flight on an HRB 6000 (weight 825 g) and the second on the heavier Hobbystar 8000 (weight 910 g). You can see that the take off run is virtually the same and that extra weight has no affect, as long as you have enough thrust from a decent EDF. Both flights were balanced at 120mm and since those flights, I've moved it back to 126 mm and it flies even better.

[Mizer67]

My 1835kv 90mm from FW measured 3,300 grams of thrust when installed in the F-22. 4,000 grams outside of the plane I would expect to be possible.

Not sure of the F-16's AUW, but the F-22 at ~3700 grams flew very light and had great vertical with that motor.

[Thoemse]

Agreed, with enough thrust, weight is definitely not a problem with this airframe (although some complain that it flies "heavy" but I think that is with the original stock outrunner fan-at least the 12-blade inrunner has plenty of guts and I don't feel that it flies "heavy" at all, even with a battery of over 900 grams). I have no idea how much actual thrust the 4068-1835 KV inrunner has but RC Castle measures it around 4.0kg, so if that is "optimistic", then the 4.4kg for yours sounds impressive and should indeed work great. I'm flying mine at a CG of 126 mm with the gear down (back a bit from the 118mm the manual suggests). The battery bay without any trimming will accommodate something of 68 mm wide, by 45-50mm in height and a length of 210 mm. However, at that length of 210 mm you won't have much room to move the battery to affect the CG. With the 8000 mah battery I use, I've got about 10 mm I could move it further back, or 65 mm I could move it forward to adjust the CG. Hope these measurements help.

The only video I have of my F-16 in the air is attached, with the first flight on an HRB 6000 (weight 825 g) and the second on the heavier Hobbystar 8000 (weight 910 g). You can see that the take off run is virtually the same and that extra weight has no affect, as long as you have enough thrust from a decent EDF. Both flights were balanced at 120mm and since those flights, I've moved it back to 126 mm and it flies even better.

That video shows me just what I needed to know. We got a fantastic flat tarmac track with our club. The one thing though: It is 70 meters long. Land to soon and the plane will shatter, don't come to a halt after 70 meters it is either going into our "natural fence" wich is not mowed grass 1m high, or roll to the side into bumpy but mown grass. With jets that usually kills the front retract.
Watching your landings was very helpful in my case because it looks like it can be landed slow and high alpha. I got a 90mm Flyfly mirage 2000 that UI can land just fine on this track. Some jets are out of the equation though because of high landing speed.

[Hugh Wiedman]

That video shows me just what I needed to know. We got a fantastic flat tarmac track with our club. The one thing though: It is 70 meters long. Land to soon and the plane will shatter, don't come to a halt after 70 meters it is either going into our "natural fence" wich is not mowed grass 1m high, or roll to the side into bumpy but mown grass. With jets that usually kills the front retract.
Watching your landings was very helpful in my case because it looks like it can be landed slow and high alpha. I got a 90mm Flyfly mirage 2000 that UI can land just fine on this track. Some jets are out of the equation though because of high landing speed.

Great, glad to help. Of course not all of my landings are always like that, but the F-16 will slow down nicely and easily get into a somewhat high alpha for landing. Obviously on a nice flat tarmac your take-off distance will be even shorter. You should also keep in mind that I set mine up with flaperons, primarily to help get off the grass, with deflections for take-off flaps at about 16 mm and landing flaps about 22 mm. These are relatively minor deflections for flaps, but I obviously did not want to over extend my aileron servos and kept them rather tame. This helped getting it to slow down a bit, so you might want to give flaperons a thought since your runway length is minimal. A nice 5-10 mph headwind also does wonders for take-off and landing!

[gooniac33]

Haven't flown mine in a while... time to take it out this weekend!!

[Aros]

Mine smashed into a tree on takeoff (don't ask lol) and came straight down and plunged the nose cone completely into the grass! The front of the fuse is busted up pretty good but with some goop, sanding and painting I think I can avoid needing a new fuselage. I have a spare nose cone and I will need to buy a new cockpit but the good news is the entire rest of the bird was untouched, gear and all. I'll start the repair project this weekend.

[Mizer67]

I have one spot on the wall left to use and have been eyeing this plane for a while.

Trying to pull the trigger on either it or the Phantom.

Can anyone tell me an accurate empty weight? Concerned it's too heavy to perform very well.

[Aros]

It's too heavy with the old outrunner setup it used to come with. Now with the High Performance inrunner version it flies great. Still a heavy jet (the older FW jets were heavier in general than the newer gen models) but with the proper power setup it flies like it should. If you're still concerned about AUW the F4 and F-22 are outstanding jets in presence, size, performance, and being lightweight (comparatively-speaking).

[Mizer67]

Yes, I have the F-22 and still think it's the best performing 90mm jet out there. In 90mm, I have the F-18 also and it is great too. Different but great. It's ~2800 grams empty and flies fine at that weight with the stock 6S 1900kv setup.

I flew the 90mm F-16 ~5 years ago and thought it was significantly underpowered and piggish as a result. I still want an F-16 though and after owning the 70mm E-Flite, wasn't impressed. People love them but mine never flew well. I find I fly my 90mms more lately and find myself liking the larger format, but am not quite ready to step up to the HSD F-16.

[Aros]

...but am not quite ready to step up to the HSD F-16.

Either am I and I have had 3 of them!

[Hugh Wiedman]

I have one spot on the wall left to use and have been eyeing this plane for a while.

Trying to pull the trigger on either it or the Phantom.

Can anyone tell me an accurate empty weight? Concerned it's too heavy to perform very well.

I really like the F-16 with the 12 blade 1835 Kv inrunner, IMO it flies great. Got out today and put 20 flights on the group, 4 each on the F-16 and F-4. Is it heavy? I don't really think so (now that E-Flight SU-30, that's one heavy pig), but I also fly the F-16 with a very heavy 8000 mah battery in it and get over 5 minutes and with that 12 blade, it takes off of grass very well and has all the vertical I need. Not sure about the 9 blade inrunner it now comes with, although I suspect it too flies very well (better than the original stock outrunner), but that 12 blade has mucho horsepower. I fly it fully loaded as well and the weight of the larger battery (over a 6000 mah) is not even noticeable. On the other hand, although the F-4 is slightly lighter (barely), it also flies extremely well, and I still have the old 9 blade 1750 Kv outrunner, which I think Freewing has "outlawed". With the 1900 Kv inrunner it now comes with I bet it flies exceptional. I won't find out though 'cause I just ordered another 12 blade inrunner to put in the F-4 (and a 2nd one to go in my F-18), so can't wait to see how that fan performs in the F-4. My opinion, you need to get both, but if you only get one, I would go with the F-16. It definitely has a real presence in the air, especially when flown with all the ordinance. The F-4 does not have quite the versatile flight envelope as the F-16. There are certain times that you can create a wing stall, especially if you are going vertical and pull too much up elevator, it can get very squirrely, where the F-16 is much more maneuverable and gets into a high alpha much easier.

The empty weight of both the stock jets is about the same, 2850 grams (F4) and 2900 grams (F-16 w/o ordinance), although my F-4 weighs in at 3030 grams because I added extra weight with the 3D printed cockpit, several coats of clear urethane and a twin afterburner. The empty stock F-16 is about 2900 grams. Mine however weighs in at 3090 grams empty because I added some extra paint, clear urethane coating, the heavier 12 bladed inrunner and a 2nd LED afterburner to go along with the included ring burner (the more the merrier).

[Mizer67]

I really like the F-16 with the 12 blade 1835 Kv inrunner, IMO it flies great. Got out today and put 20 flights on the group, 4 each on the F-16 and F-4. Is it heavy? I don't really think so (now that E-Flight SU-30, that's one heavy pig), but I also fly the F-16 with a very heavy 8000 mah battery in it and get over 5 minutes and with that 12 blade, it takes off of grass very well and has all the vertical I need. Not sure about the 9 blade inrunner it now comes with, although I suspect it too flies very well (better than the original stock outrunner), but that 12 blade has mucho horsepower. I fly it fully loaded as well and the weight of the larger battery (over a 6000 mah) is not even noticeable. On the other hand, although the F-4 is slightly lighter (barely), it also flies extremely well, and I still have the old 9 blade 1750 Kv outrunner, which I think Freewing has "outlawed". With the 1900 Kv inrunner it now comes with I bet it flies exceptional. I won't find out though 'cause I just ordered another 12 blade inrunner to put in the F-4 (and a 2nd one to go in my F-18), so can't wait to see how that fan performs in the F-4. My opinion, you need to get both, but if you only get one, I would go with the F-16. It definitely has a real presence in the air, especially when flown with all the ordinance. The F-4 does not have quite the versatile flight envelope as the F-16. There are certain times that you can create a wing stall, especially if you are going vertical and pull too much up elevator, it can get very squirrely, where the F-16 is much more maneuverable and gets into a high alpha much easier.

The empty weight of both the stock jets is about the same, 2850 grams (F4) and 2900 grams (F-16 w/o ordinance), although my F-4 weighs in at 3030 grams because I added extra weight with the 3D printed cockpit, several coats of clear urethane and a twin afterburner. The empty stock F-16 is about 2900 grams. Mine however weighs in at 3090 grams empty because I added some extra paint, clear urethane coating, the heavier 12 bladed inrunner and a 2nd LED afterburner to go along with the included ring burner (the more the merrier).

Thanks Hugh. That's good info.

I read on the other site last night about the F-16 being 3200 grams empty, but perhaps the power setup was different. Thought with those beefy gear and extra servos it was significantly heavier than the current generation of planes.

I have a spare 12-bld. 1835kv FW EDF that should be a drop in fit. Fantastic thrust on that motor. Just for giggles I also have an FMS 1850kv 12-bld on the way that's new that looks to be in direct competition to FW's version. I've been impressed with their EDFs (for the price) so thought I'd test this new one out against my favorite Freewing motor on 6S.

I need to cut the roster to fit two more 90mms in my garage space. Running short of wall to hang them on unless I go higher.

[Hugh Wiedman]

I have a spare 12-bld. 1835kv FW EDF that should be a drop in fit. Fantastic thrust on that motor. Just for giggles I also have an FMS 1850kv 12-bld on the way that's new that looks to be in direct competition to FW's version. I've been impressed with their EDFs (for the price) so thought I'd test this new one out against my favorite Freewing motor on 6S.

M67, I can tell you for sure the FW 12 Blade inrunner is a drop in fit for the F-16. It will be interesting to see your comparison with the FMS fan. Elbee has said that it is also a drop in fit for the 90 mm F-18. Certainly my favorite FW EDF!!! So much so that I just ordered 2 more last night (am I crazy or what-could have bought another plane) along with 2 twin afterburners (LED cones only) to put in my F-4 and F-18. Both had the "old" 9 blade 1750 Kv outrunner and were due for a power surge. Got tired of the incessant whining of that old outrunner and after flying it again yesterday, I just had to say bye bye to those things. Anyone looking for two 9 blade 3748-1750 Kv outrunners, both with afterburners, REAL CHEAP? But wait, if you act now, you can buy one and get the second free, with only a nominal (price of a new Mig) shipping?

BTW, in my previous testing of EDF's, the inrunner vs these older outrunners, I found that the inrunner REALLY benefits from a higher C battery, but it didn't make much of a difference with the outrunner. The difference on power draws for a 35C vs a 75C (of course not the actual C, but their "labeled" C) was an increase in over 7Ah and 300 watts.

[DCORSAIR]

M67, I can tell you for sure the FW 12 Blade inrunner is a drop in fit for the F-16. It will be interesting to see your comparison with the FMS fan. Elbee has said that it is also a drop in fit for the 90 mm F-18. Certainly my favorite FW EDF!!! So much so that I just ordered 2 more last night (am I crazy or what-could have bought another plane) along with 2 twin afterburners (LED cones only) to put in my F-4 and F-18. Both had the "old" 9 blade 1750 Kv outrunner and were due for a power surge. Got tired of the incessant whining of that old outrunner and after flying it again yesterday, I just had to say bye bye to those things. Anyone looking for two 9 blade 3748-1750 Kv outrunners, both with afterburners, REAL CHEAP? But wait, if you act now, you can buy one and get the second free, with only a nominal (price of a new Mig) shipping?

BTW, in my previous testing of EDF's, the inrunner vs these older outrunners, I found that the inrunner REALLY benefits from a higher C battery, but it didn't make much of a difference with the outrunner. The difference on power draws for a 35C vs a 75C (of course not the actual C, but their "labeled" C) was an increase in over 7Ah and 300 watts.

Hugh,
You will love the 1835 in the F-4, sounds great, I pulled that 9 blade out after one flight I think, I don't like whiners....

Here is what yours will sound like....sweeet

[Hugh Wiedman]

Hugh,
You will love the 1835 in the F-4, sounds great, I pulled that 9 blade out after one flight I think, I don't like whiners....

Here is what yours will sound like....sweeet

C'est Tres Magnifique!!! I don't know how I've put up with that old outrunner for so long, must have some 200 flights on it. I always loved the sound and performance of that 12 blade in the F-16 but it just didn't dawn on me till yesterday that I should put one in the F-4 and the F-18 (also with that old outrunner). I'd have gotten a 3rd 12 blade for my 2nd F-4 (the blue angle version) but that will have to wait just a bit longer until my credit card cools down. From the looks of your great video, it's not just the sound that's a huge improvement, although I'm sure the pilot had as much or more to do with that as the EDF. On some of my verticals, cuban eights and split S's with the old outrunner, I had to be careful at the top and not pull too hard for fear of the occasional wing stall as it groaned to get over. Did make for some interesting weird maneuvers at times though.