Originally posted by keilau
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Originally posted by Rubicon99 View PostBy plastic I meant the hull “plastic” not plastic in the motors. Many documented case of the radiant motor heat caused by high voltage battery use melting the surrounding plastic parts of the tanks hull. But good to know the information you provide about the motor fan material though.
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Originally posted by keilau View Post
HL uses ABS plastic to mold the frame/hull of their RC tanks. ABS has very good strength as slightly elevated temperature. One of the test I plan is to use a 3S Lithium battery (11.1 volt nominal) with a Mabuchi RS-380PH-3270 motor which is rated for up to 15 volts DC. But I will not call that a "high voltage battery". But it never hurt to be careful.
“High” voltage is also generally term as it relates to the max % of voltage the basic HL 6.0S/7.0 MFU and the amount of voltage one can put into the MFU to power the motors. The systems have a max voltage rating of 12.6v (=11v 3cell Lipo battery at full charge) and an proximate *amp draw max of 10 per motor. The systems although rated for 12.6 volts WILL overheat rather quickly much over 9.6v (~76% of max voltage) when running 390 motor with heavy loads placed on them. I have a dozen burned up systems to illustrate this.
*Informational note: 6.0/7.0 MFUs have amp load/draw limits of ~10amps (6.1S limit is15 amps) per motor. Exceeding the amp draw limit causes rapid heating of the MFUs and at best a shut down or at worst a burn out. Easy to do at +9.6 volts with 390 motors.
Don’t take this wrong, but I feel you may be way overthinking the motor issues given the general simplicity of HL tanks and the ease of swapping out parts. Motors are cheap, they burn up, wear out and some work slightly better then others.
Now if buying and testing every motor to find that slim performance margin or confirm its ratings is your thing, by all means have at it. Maybe even start a stand alone thread about your motor testing as this thread is getting “long in the tooth” and a bit muddied with off shoot topics which do little to help those looking for a quick easy answer to the Red or Blue question.
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I have shown that even the HL grey 380 is capable of driving a normal version steel gearbox and metal track on the Leopard 2A6. But the temperature rises is too high in my judgement. I expect the HL blue motor to do much better. I am a hobbyist and an engineer, my interest is not on the question of blue or red. I want to help my fellow hobbyist to find out:- How to detect a defective motor before it does more serious damage to the tank.
- What is the limit of generally available motors when used to drive a HL tank.
It would be nice for technically knowledgeable fellow tankers to set some boundary on what not to do.
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I think these guys here on this forum have outlined quite well the better ways to upgrade a tank and some things not to do by experience. Especially Rubicon.
What your doing with the motor testing is interesting, but not necessary.RC tank parts and accessories I make
www.RichardSJohnson.net/id28.html
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Originally posted by RichJohnson View PostI think these guys here on this forum have outlined quite well the better ways to upgrade a tank and some things not to do by experience. Especially Rubicon.
What your doing with the motor testing is interesting, but not necessary.
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Originally posted by SoCalBobS View PostDo you like your HL tanks? I do mine. If yes, they’re not crap, they’re fun!
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Originally posted by keilau View Post
I just received my gearbox for the 2005 HL Pershing from e-bay seller, build-for-you, today. Will be working on it the next few days and report my result at the Pershing thread.
I also got some 380/390 heatsink with fan. But I will have to see if they can fit. If no space for the heatsink, I will remove the smoke generator and put a 40mm fan there instead.
I use a pair of Mxfans 390 instead of the red motor. For all practical purpose, these 390 motor are interchangeable.
I replaced the stock grey 380 motor on the OEM steel gearbox from the Leopard with the red motors and mounted it on the Pershing. It went in easily. I am also upgrading the Pershing to 6.0 electronics for better driving quality. I have purchased a second Heng Xin gearbox which, I think, can be used on the Pershing with the blue motor. When I am all done, I will post to the Pershing thread.
An other option of all bearing gearbox with red motor for the M26 Pershing is the HL Ultimate II gearbox.
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Originally posted by keilau View Post
Yes, I like my HL tank. They are affordable. But I must say that they are borderline crap. For example, the mounting of the gearbox is NOT sturdy at all. I got the Tiger I in 2004 and the M26 Pershing in 2005. The motor was so weak that it is a living room only tank. Take it outdoor and put it on the lawn, it cannot move on grass. There is a lot of fun upgrading it. Now it can run outdoor, it is fun. Over the year, the electronic improved the most. The latest TK-6.0S RC with good enough proportional control to make driving fun.
Also comparing 15+ year old HL tanks (which admittedly at the time were junk) to those being produced today and somehow insinuating the quality is the same is frankly just an unfair comparison.
The new 6.0-7.0 tanks are hands down far superior to their earlier counter parts in fit quality, durability, performance and far better then the typical Tamiya tank in handling, durability and overall proportional control. I own a dozen Tamiya tanks with MFU/DMDs ranging from the T1 to T11 and none equal the ease of driving and proportional control of the basic HL 6.0 system.
You need to spend a little more time with the new generation of HL tanks and stop basing your option on 15 year old product quality. Today’s HL tanks are not what they used to be and are fast becoming the industrial leader. They are not perfect, but dollars for dollar you get more out of them then with a Tamiya tank that cost three time as much.
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Originally posted by Rubicon99 View Post
I have TOTALLY disagree with you about the gearbox mounting not being sturdy. I am well known in the tank hobby for beating the living SH** out of HL tanks and I have NEVER ONCE had a gearbox mount fail!!! To say that they have issues just shows your inexperience with them.
Also comparing 15+ year old HL tanks (which admittedly at the time were junk) to those being produced today and somehow insinuating the quality is the same is frankly just an unfair comparison.
The new 6.0-7.0 tanks are hands down far superior to their earlier counter parts in fit quality, durability, performance and far better then the typical Tamiya tank in handling, durability and overall proportional control. I own a dozen Tamiya tanks with MFU/DMDs ranging from the T1 to T11 and none equal the ease of driving and proportional control of the basic HL 6.0 system.
You need to spend a little more time with the new generation of HL tanks and stop basing your option on 15 year old product quality. Today’s HL tanks are not what they used to be and are fast becoming the industrial leader. They are not perfect, but dollars for dollar you get more out of them then with a Tamiya tank that cost three time as much.
The gearbox mounting of this 2021 tank is identical to my 2005 Pershing, with 3 self tapping screws (M3 size) and 2 index tab on elevated post off the tank floor. I will not call this "sturdy". The 2021 leopard comes with a steel gearbox, It is the normal (no ball bearing) version of HL gearbox. It is identical to the Pershing gearbox too. You can see that I can use these 2021 gearbox on the Pershing with no problem too. See picture in Post #49.
Rubicon99, I mean no disrespect to you. You cannot use the label "inexperience" without showing or describing how Heng Long had improved or changed their gearbox mounting in the last 17 years. You seem to look down on effort which try to improve the RTR tanks from Heng Long. BTW, I consider the Heng Xin all ball bearing gearbox to be a world ahead of the HL steel gearbox too.
I do not regret how I called some (not all) of the HL OEM components. I call it as I see it based on the experience on only 4 Heng Long tanks, 3 of which are more than 10 years old and one recent purchase.
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Just about everything else has changed on the HL tank except the transmission mounts, probably because they work just fine if you dont over tighten the screw and strip them out.
I have not stripped a Henglong transmission mount but I had a used tiagen all metal sherman chassis that some of the screws were stripped out. Same kinda mount. I just drilled them and put a hex 2/50 bolt and nut on the stripped out holes.
If you want better than this design, which nearly everyone uses on their products, you could try Mato, or even better Tamiya. Tamiya tanks are kits, that you build like an RC car and a plastic model.
Rubicon has been around this hobby for a long time, with all sorts of tanks. He has shown us how to knock them and upgrade them for excellent performance beyond what was expected.RC tank parts and accessories I make
www.RichardSJohnson.net/id28.html
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Originally posted by RichJohnson View PostJust about everything else has changed on the HL tank except the transmission mounts, probably because they work just fine if you dont over tighten the screw and strip them out.
I have not stripped a Henglong transmission mount but I had a used tiagen all metal sherman chassis that some of the screws were stripped out. Same kinda mount. I just drilled them and put a hex 2/50 bolt and nut on the stripped out holes.
If you want better than this design, which nearly everyone uses on their products, you could try Mato, or even better Tamiya. Tamiya tanks are kits, that you build like an RC car and a plastic model.
Rubicon has been around this hobby for a long time, with all sorts of tanks. He has shown us how to knock them and upgrade them for excellent performance beyond what was expected.
I have comment on the quality of Mato metal track too. Consider this to be "inexperienced" because it is based on one single sample of Mato track and one Heng Long metal track.
I have been trying to get the Mato metal track to work on my HL M26 Pershing 3838 without any success. After 5-10 minutes' run, it de-track badly and I will start to search the floor for fall-off or broken endcaps.
Most of the time, the endcap just fell off intact. But there are enough incidents that the endcap fell off broken. I finally have to stop trying after used up most of the spare endcaps. If you have a contact at Mato, I would like to contact them to see what I can do.
By comparison, the HL metal track that came with my German Leopard 2A6 3889-1 still works fine after a month. I should be testing it on the new gearbox soon, see Post #49 above.
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Originally posted by keilau View Post
For anyone who considers Mato to be quality parts, I refer you to the "High End Castings" thread, post #19 to 23. I expect to have to do that when using Mato cast parts.
I have comment on the quality of Mato metal track too. Consider this to be "inexperienced" because it is based on one single sample of Mato track and one Heng Long metal track.
I have been trying to get the Mato metal track to work on my HL M26 Pershing 3838 without any success. After 5-10 minutes' run, it de-track badly and I will start to search the floor for fall-off or broken endcaps.
Most of the time, the endcap just fell off intact. But there are enough incidents that the endcap fell off broken. I finally have to stop trying after used up most of the spare endcaps. If you have a contact at Mato, I would like to contact them to see what I can do.
By comparison, the HL metal track that came with my German Leopard 2A6 3889-1 still works fine after a month. I should be testing it on the new gearbox soon, see Post #49 above.
The best tracks made for the Pershing are Tamiya and Kenny Kong / IMPACT tracks. They run about $85 a set.
HL Leopard 2 tracks are single pin and not correct as the real tracks are dual pin with end connectors. DKLM and Tamiya make Leopard 2 tracks that put the stock metal HL tracks to shame and are about the same price.
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I suggested Mato tanks because they have different tranny style of mounting than Henglong which you don’t like. They are the only ones that are a bit different other than Tamiya. I have owned a few Mato Sherman’s of the early run and have my reasons for not wanting to own them again but not for anything regarding issues you have raised. Also, most mato metal tracks need to be run on mato metal sprockets. Pershing and Sherman fall into this category..
And yes, lots of brands of after market track come loose as they break in. Rubicon mentioned the solution we commonly use.
Please take a second to consider that some of us have been in this hobby for many years and have serviced and or built many tanks.
I for example, have owned every single rc Sherman produced in 1/16 scale, and purchased nearly every single aftermarket track, detail bit, accessory, body hull kit, turret upgrade kit etc etc that has been made by every small manufacturer out there that relates to a Sherman tank.RC tank parts and accessories I make
www.RichardSJohnson.net/id28.html
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Originally posted by RichJohnson View PostI suggested Mato tanks because they have different tranny style of mounting than Henglong which you don’t like. They are the only ones that are a bit different other than Tamiya. I have owned a few Mato Sherman’s of the early run and have my reasons for not wanting to own them again but not for anything regarding issues you have raised. Also, most mato metal tracks need to be run on mato metal sprockets. Pershing and Sherman fall into this category..
And yes, lots of brands of after market track come loose as they break in. Rubicon mentioned the solution we commonly use.
Please take a second to consider that some of us have been in this hobby for many years and have serviced and or built many tanks.
I for example, have owned every single rc Sherman produced in 1/16 scale, and purchased nearly every single aftermarket track, detail bit, accessory, body hull kit, turret upgrade kit etc etc that has been made by every small manufacturer out there that relates to a Sherman tank.
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Originally posted by Rubicon99 View Post
You need to peen the end connectors. It’s not hard it is just time consuming. Mato Pershing, Abrams and Leopard 2 dual pin tracks are well known to have loose end connectors and why most of us that have been in the hobby a while don’t recommend them to those new to tanks.
The best tracks made for the Pershing are Tamiya and Kenny Kong / IMPACT tracks. They run about $85 a set.
HL Leopard 2 tracks are single pin and not correct as the real tracks are dual pin with end connectors. DKLM and Tamiya make Leopard 2 tracks that put the stock metal HL tracks to shame and are about the same price.
Every time before I used the Mato track, I inspect each pin and seat them properly. But it does not help much. I have to admit that Mato made a very good looking track. For now, I am back to the plastic track. I am thinking using the plastic endcap on the Mato track. What do you think?
I did not notice that the HL metal track is a one pin design. You are right and it looks terrible in detail appearance, but it seems to function ok. I will add this to the borderline crap list.
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Originally posted by RichJohnson View PostI suggested Mato tanks because they have different tranny style of mounting than Henglong which you don’t like. They are the only ones that are a bit different other than Tamiya. I have owned a few Mato Sherman’s of the early run and have my reasons for not wanting to own them again but not for anything regarding issues you have raised. Also, most mato metal tracks need to be run on mato metal sprockets. Pershing and Sherman fall into this category..
And yes, lots of brands of after market track come loose as they break in. Rubicon mentioned the solution we commonly use.
Please take a second to consider that some of us have been in this hobby for many years and have serviced and or built many tanks.
I for example, have owned every single rc Sherman produced in 1/16 scale, and purchased nearly every single aftermarket track, detail bit, accessory, body hull kit, turret upgrade kit etc etc that has been made by every small manufacturer out there that relates to a Sherman tank.
I still call some of the components that HL used on their tank borderline crap.
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As an engineer, I think you would really enjoy building and operating a Tamiya tank. They really are the connoisseur level of rc tanks. Especially the more modern ones like the Abrams and the leopard and type 10.
I’m working my way into an m51 super Sherman right now which I will be substituting a urethane cast A1 hull and the whole MFU system for a servo operated system.
”Every time before I used the Mato track, I inspect each pin and seat them properly. But it does not help much. I have to admit that Mato made a very good looking track. For now, I am back to the plastic track. I am thinking using the plastic endcap on the Mato track. What do you think?” Keilau
if you want to try and see how it works, it’s up to you. Mato’s metal sprockets for a Pershing would not fit a Tamiya shaft, and their track will not run on a Tamiya sprocket. I took measurements of their metal pads and they were nearly the same dimensions as Tamiya where it mattered So I made an experiment of tearing down a Tamiya Pershing track and inserting mato metal chevron pads. A few nights of work and I proved it was a very bad idea as it did not roll on the Tamiya sprocket and a waste of a side of mato track as the pins often bent coming out. All in all, it was something I wanted to try but went very badly....RC tank parts and accessories I make
www.RichardSJohnson.net/id28.html
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