TD M60 A3 review.

[keilau]

I don't have the TD gearbox out of the tank to check the measurements but from memory it looked similar to a "short" shaft HL.

The HL cross drive gearbox has 4 designations: L49MM, H55MM, H60MM and H65MM. The TongDe gearbox is fully enclosed metal gear and cheaper than any of the cross drive gearboxes. No reason not to get it.

[Rubicon99]

The TongDe gearbox has the drive axle extended 18 mm beyond the case wall. Which HL cross drive gearbox has the right drive axle length?

I don't have the TD gearbox out of the tank to check the measurements but from memory it looked similar to a "short" shaft HL.

[keilau]

Looks like I was correct about the mounting points underneath the M60 gearboxes. This is a copy of the HL cross drive gearboxes that TD is realizing soon.

The TongDe gearbox has the drive axle extended 18 mm beyond the case wall. Which HL cross drive gearbox has the right drive axle length?

[Rubicon99]

Looks like I was correct about the mounting points underneath the M60 gearboxes. This is a copy of the HL cross drive gearboxes that TD is realizing soon.

[Rubicon99]

@Rubicon99, thank you for your sharing. One of the reason that I decided to go with the plastic version and delay the metal upgrade is that I realized the TongDe track to be a single pin design.

If the plastic TongDe comes with plastic gearbox, I will upgrade to the TongDe metal gearbox vrey soon. I have a spare pair of Torro black 380 which is a perfect fit according to your recommendation.

The plastic TD M60 comes with a plastic gearbox. I ordered a stand alone metal one when I ordered my plastic M60. The metal single pin track works and is well built, no hallow spaces and the pin is fully enclosed inside the pad/link(same with the plastic version). Far superior to how HL build theirs. The plastic tack is also far superior to the HL plastic tracks probably even better then Tamiya's nylon tracks. I like the TD plastic tracks much more then the metal ones. So much so I order two spare sets of plastic tracks. They run smoother and are more quite then the metal one, they are also far far lighter. The TD metal tracks are really heavy even more so the HL metal tracks of similar size. This is largely do to not having the hallow track pads.

IMO the best all around combination for the TD M60 would be metal gearboxes, metal suspension arms, metal sprockets, plastic tracks and plastic/rubber idlers/road wheels. A further added bonus would be the SS wheel bushing replaced by bearings, but that all depends on how hard the tank is intended to be used.

[keilau]

@Rubicon99, thank you for your sharing. One of the reason that I decided to go with the plastic version and delay the metal upgrade is that I realized the TongDe track to be a single pin design.

If the plastic TongDe comes with plastic gearbox, I will upgrade to the TongDe metal gearbox vrey soon. I have a spare pair of Torro black 380 which is a perfect fit according to your recommendation.

[Rubicon99]

Yes, The $199 shipping by USA Post is for a single M60A3 metal version tank only. The shipping for the plastic version is $128 now. It went up some. The cost seems to relate to shipping weight.

I don't want to take a chance with sea shipping at AliExpress.

There is a lone Canadian TongDe seller on e-bay. They sell the plastic basic versions only. Price and shipping are pretty reasonable.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/16604353133...gAAOSwOI1kQbQR
They should be able to ship quicker. I may get the basic version for now and worry about the metal upgrade later. Anyone can tell me what gearbox does it come with?

When I changed my very old Pershing M26 to Torro gearbox, I have a bunch of metal parts left:
1..Heng Xin gearbox with Torro black 380 motors.
2. Meto/Tamboy metal track.
3. HL metal sprocket and idler wheel.
I will test them on the TongDe M60A3 if any of them fit.

None of the parts will fit *. I have tested everything that is even close. The tracks and sprockets are wider then anything comparable and the sprockets have a rather aggressive negative backspacing/axle mount that is needed to a-line them with the road wheels.

The TD metal gearbox are actually quite nice, very comparable to the Heng Xin. They use steel gears, full bearings and are completely enclosed. The gearboxes disassemble and reassemble rather nicely. They also are super easy to manipulate both taking out and put back in. The screws mounting arrangement looks questionable, but it works very well. I have not experienced any issues with the mounts or screws. The only issue with the gearboxes I have experienced is with the motor pinion gears, they did not mesh well. But simply changing the 380 motors to something nicer solved that issue. There is and is not enough room for 390 motors. They can be made to fit, but it's not simple drop in, some minor modification are needed.

The TD idler mount is rather stout and appears at least twice the size of comparable HL tanks of similar over size and weight. The wheel is metal with bearings and rubber tires. The plastic version is plastic with SS bushings and rubber tires. So either way both at equal or better then HL and Tamiya. I don't think you will be making any actual improvements by swapping in another companies parts.

*The Heng Xin gearboxes might be able to be installed if you can modify their mounting plates. There are additional unused lower hull mounts under the stock gearboxes. These appear to be in the proper positioning to mount the base for HL dual current/cross drive type gearboxes. I did not test this because I did not want to go through the added work of removing one from another perfectly good working tank just to test fit. Besides the stock metal gearbox are rather nice.

The metal version of the TD M60 is noisy by comparison to similarly equipped HL tanks. Not so much gearbox noise that for the most part is no more or less then a HL Ultimate or Taigen Black bearing gearboxes. The noise comes from the all metal single pin tracks interacting with the metal sprockets and the sound of the motors. I filmed my M60 with the sound volume turned down so the natural noises of the tank could be heard. These can be found on my Instagram @ Fsttanks.

[keilau]

I just ordered a TongDe Patton M60A1 plastic version from Nova Hobby in Canada. The shipping is US$42. I will report back the overall shopping experience including shipping when I get the shipment.

Canadian Postal Service used to be much slower than USPS, but USPS is slowing down fast. I still expect it to be faster ordering from DKLM in Hong Kong.

I asked Nova Hobby about the other TongDe tanks such as the M60A3. They said the next shipment from TongDe is in late summer or later.

[keilau]

$199? That's not correct unless you ordered a bunch of other items as well. Both of my M60s were $110 each for air shipment. Those that are getting them shipped "ground" from Aliexpress are having them arrive with far more broken parts. The TD M60 is not packed well from the factory and the heavier metal version take a beating in shipping. They fair better being shipped air and end up arriving with less damage and broken parts.

My biggest complaint about DKLM high shipping price is the time it takes them to ship the tank out. I have come to learn their "in stock" numbers mean nothing and are simply place holders. Which means they don't actually physically have them ready to ship from their shop. So it can take almost a month for your TD tank or TD parts to ship. For the price being paid this is inexcusable. I suspect DKLM has them drop shipped from the factory because they state they inspect and remove the battery but mine arrived completely factory sealed and with batteries still inside which leads me to conclude the tanks DKLM sells are shipped from the factory which would explain the very long delays between paying and receiving the tank.

I do not know about everyone else but when I buy an indicated "IN STOCK" item and pay top dollar for shipping I expect it to ship within a few business days. If you are like me then be ready to get pissed at the wait time. Oh and DKLM is horrible at answering emails through their official web site. But they will answer them quickly on Facebook. Again if you are like me and don't use Facebook then you have to wait a long long time for a response or have a friend that is on Facebook ask for you.

Yes, The $199 shipping by USA Post is for a single M60A3 metal version tank only. The shipping for the plastic version is $128 now. It went up some. The cost seems to relate to shipping weight.

I don't want to take a chance with sea shipping at AliExpress.

There is a lone Canadian TongDe seller on e-bay. They sell the plastic basic versions only. Price and shipping are pretty reasonable.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/16604353133...gAAOSwOI1kQbQR
They should be able to ship quicker. I may get the basic version for now and worry about the metal upgrade later. Anyone can tell me what gearbox does it come with?

When I changed my very old Pershing M26 to Torro gearbox, I have a bunch of metal parts left:
1..Heng Xin gearbox with Torro black 380 motors.
2. Meto/Tamboy metal track.
3. HL metal sprocket and idler wheel.
I will test them on the TongDe M60A3 if any of them fit.

[Rubicon99]

I visited the DKLM website to check on the M60A3 price. The $278 looks very good for the metal version.

https://www.dklmrc.com/Tondge_116_M60A3_Patton_RTR_RC_tank/p2389473_21966811.aspx

But they offer only one shipping option at checkout: USA Post at $199 which makes it unrealistic.

$199? That's not correct unless you ordered a bunch of other items as well. Both of my M60s were $110 each for air shipment. Those that are getting them shipped "ground" from Aliexpress are having them arrive with far more broken parts. The TD M60 is not packed well from the factory and the heavier metal version take a beating in shipping. They fair better being shipped air and end up arriving with less damage and broken parts.

My biggest complaint about DKLM high shipping price is the time it takes them to ship the tank out. I have come to learn their "in stock" numbers mean nothing and are simply place holders. Which means they don't actually physically have them ready to ship from their shop. So it can take almost a month for your TD tank or TD parts to ship. For the price being paid this is inexcusable. I suspect DKLM has them drop shipped from the factory because they state they inspect and remove the battery but mine arrived completely factory sealed and with batteries still inside which leads me to conclude the tanks DKLM sells are shipped from the factory which would explain the very long delays between paying and receiving the tank.

I do not know about everyone else but when I buy an indicated "IN STOCK" item and pay top dollar for shipping I expect it to ship within a few business days. If you are like me then be ready to get pissed at the wait time. Oh and DKLM is horrible at answering emails through their official web site. But they will answer them quickly on Facebook. Again if you are like me and don't use Facebook then you have to wait a long long time for a response or have a friend that is on Facebook ask for you.

[keilau]

Compare its total cost to a Tamiya, Torro or Mato tank. Its worth is just how much you want it.

Totally agree. The $278 price for a metal version TongDe US Patton M60A3 from dklmrc.com is comparable to Heng Long Pro version price. Very reasonable.

The complaint is about the $199 shipping cost and no other option. I remember some other buyer mentioned $100 shipping a month ago.

[SoCalBobS]

Compare its total cost to a Tamiya, Torro or Mato tank. Its worth is just how much you want it.

[keilau]

I visited the DKLM website to check on the M60A3 price. The $278 looks very good for the metal version.

https://www.dklmrc.com/Tondge_116_M60A3_Patton_RTR_RC_tank/p2389473_21966811.aspx

But they offer only one shipping option at checkout: USA Post at $199 which makes it unrealistic.

[Rubicon99]

Test photos continued.

[Rubicon99]

After installing the travel limiters on the rear suspension arms I was able to get out and thoroughly test the M60 and all the issue with over travel are gone. So now I can give my overall impression of the M60s driving and handling performance.

The TongDe metal version M60 with the improvement of a HL 7.1 control system drives similar to a large HL metal version Abrams, Leopard 2, King Tiger or Challenger. Where it differs is in the way the suspension / road wheels interacts with the terrain. The M60 is smoother because of its torsion bars vs the torsion springs used in HL tanks. The torsion bars work better with heavier tanks which the M60 and the others are.

The metal M60 excels in rough uneven undulating terrain when compared to HL metal Abrams, Leopard, Challenger and T72/90. The M60 is a little short then the NATO tanks, but about the same length as the T72/90. It was able to surpass the excellent performance of the T72/90 in the undulating terrain test because the M60 has far better ground clearance, wheel travel and better approach/departure angles (with no tow hook mounts attached). It also had above average track retention and did not have any difficulty with holding its tracks on throughout testing.

Over all (mechanically) I have to give the out of the box metal version of the TongDe M60 a solid 7 out of 10 rating when compared to comparable HL tanks such as those mentioned above. It has some minor mechanical issues that can be corrected easily for those with some RC or model hobby experience. When corrected the rating goes up to 8.5. Even with the minor issues I see more positives and potential going for the M60. So yes I would recommend it, but not as someone's first tank.

Please feel free to ask any questions you may have about the TongDe M60.

Photos from trials (testing) course. Sorry some of the more dramatic photos will not load they are to high in resolution, but I think these give a little idea.

[Rubicon99]

How does a 3888A tank exhaust smoke unit work?

I ripped it out because I don't like the toy like smoke RC tanks have and I can use the extra room inside for other thinhs that are more important to me. That said the smoke unit is one of the newer styles that HengLong is using, so I would suspect it puts out a similar smoke effect as seen with the newer HL tanks.

[Jbhtrams]

How does a 3888A tank exhaust smoke unit work?

[Rubicon99]

Ended up installing four down travel limiters on the rear Uncategorized Groups & Special left and right suspensions arm mounting holes. These have been working well and the issue with over travel is gone. With this issue solved I feel more confident in the overall durability of the M60 and no longer have to "baby" it in rough terrain.

Next up I will be providing my closing thoughts on the TD M60. If you have any questions feel free to ask.

[tank_me]

There was talk of the tank siting too low with the original plastic setup, and that the metal upgrade lifted it. Maybe a downward change in angle of the suspension arms caused an unintended consequence that you've experienced. Just a thought.

The metal version does seem to sit higher as it should. This tank has a lot of ground clearance. If you take the torsion bars and use two pairs of pliers, the plastic track version would be able to "clock" the torsion bar to make it sit higher. The only issue is you might need to add some track links to do that as it makes the track loop larger. I'm not sure if the plastic tracks came with any spares. Adjusting the suspension so that it sits higher would give each suspension arm more throw movement. That extra torque on the plastic probably did cause the failure. The higher the arm compresses, the more torque that would be applied to the plastic.

[Rubicon99]

There was talk of the tank siting too low with the original plastic setup, and that the metal upgrade lifted it. Maybe a downward change in angle of the suspension arms caused an unintended consequence that you've experienced. Just a thought.

I don't know but I suspect even the plastic tanks will suffer from this issue at some point because there is no travel stop and without them there is nothing to physically limit the travel.

Anyway I am working on a simple "slip on" fix that anyone will be able to add to their tank plastic or metal so as to never have the problem. 🤞🤞 testing goes as well as it appears it should.