TD M60 A3 review.

[RichJohnson]

The ring mount is quite a complicated 2 piece apparatus. I would add shims below it inside the turret ring area to force it to sit up higher but would still have to find a way to affix the rotation ring gear to it, which I think is quite possible. But right now I have too many Leopard 1 tanks that are requiring my attention.

[SoCalBobS]

I think it looks cool. I wonder if "JVMConcepts" could help you out?

[RichJohnson]

Perfect platform! Just a drop-in transfer from your Sherman?

No, sadly it is not. I did order both turret ring mounts offered for the marksman turret when bought it. Well, really it only came with a large henglong barbett ring but I convinced him to make a sherman size ring for me. I figured some day I might want to move it off the sherman chassis.

The large henglong barbett ring didnt quite fit into the recess for the TD turret, I had to sand the circumference a little just to make it drop in.
But then there is another problem, the henglong large ring gear is just slightly bigger than the TD ring gear and of course none of the screw holes line up.
I would have to mount the marksman turret base on the hull and line up the TD gear inside and mark and drill new mounting screw holes and make tabs for them. Not too difficult as I think it would work but the turret also hits the rear of the M60. The barbett base needs to be raised up slightly. Again not a problem if I wanted to do this permanently.
But for now this was just a funny I did to see if it would work. And it will.... well, at least I can make it work, and I might some day, just not today.

[Rubicon99]

Out for a shakedown trial now

Its a BEAST! I like it. 👍

[SoCalBobS]

Perfect platform! Just a drop-in transfer from your Sherman?

[RichJohnson]

Out for a shakedown trial now

[keilau]

Unfortunately, my 2005 HL 3838 Snow Leopard has a turret that doesn't match the new recoil cannon. The external turret shape is ok, but the cut out etc changed enough to not to fit. I tested it and find the recoil works very well. I am looking to purchase a newer Pershing turret now. I pack the Pershing away after testing. Back to my TD M60 upgrade now.

With some suggestions and help from the Toucan seller, I was able to make the Pershing recoil BB unit work. I started a separate thread to discuss that upgrade project.

[keilau]

Its probably the square cut pinion gears. Pull the motor out of the gear box and look at the pinion and see if you have square teeth gears. They mesh terribly if so. Replace motors with taigen or your desired type unless you are versed in changing pinion gears.

I replaced the TD motors with Tamiya380. I purchased my own motor drive gears and put them on. They are nicely shape gears. I will take some pictures of the gear later today

I never bothered to change the TD motors on the plastic gearbox because of the pending metal upgrade. The plastic gearbox with TD motors runs fine and did not have lockup problems.

[Rubicon99]

Would several strokes with a triangular file knock the corners off those square cut gear teeth and ease the fit?

This is the problem shown below. Simply easier to just swap out the motors. Basic HL 380 motors will perform equally to the TD motors but will have a better gear mesh.

[RichJohnson]

Probably, but you would have to remove the gear from the shaft. I do it regularly but Im not going to share how to do it because its dangerous and you can and will damage the motor if you dont do it fast enough.

[oldwolf]

Its probably the square cut pinion gears. Pull the motor out of the gear box and look at the pinion and see if you have square teeth gears. They mesh terribly if so. Replace motors with taigen or your desired type unless you are versed in changing pinion gears.

Would several strokes with a triangular file knock the corners off those square cut gear teeth and ease the fit?

[RichJohnson]

Its probably the square cut pinion gears. Pull the motor out of the gear box and look at the pinion and see if you have square teeth gears. They mesh terribly if so. Replace motors with taigen or your desired type unless you are versed in changing pinion gears.

[keilau]

I am still waiting for the metal gearbox, sproket and idler from DKLM-HK. I will be lucky to get all the metal parts by end of May.

Finally, get the TongDe M60 prepared internally and magneted up for test runs. This is the slowest 1:16 scale RC tank I currently have! It is pathetic. I have not done any test to pinpoint the problem yet. The gearbox ratio too high? The TongDe 380 too slow? @Robicon99 already tried red390 and it does not fit. The Tamiya380 and Torro Black380 will help a little, but probably not enough.

Put the M60 on my 2x4 dynamo for some speed measurements. It has a track rpm of 45.2 which translates to a scale speed of 25.2 mph. It is about the same as the stock HL Pershing of 23 mph. It is slightly less than the highway speed of M60 at 30 mph. I estimate the TD gearbox has the same 1:39 gear ratio as the HL gearbox.

With the metal drive chain in place, I did a speed test with the lower chassis alone. Jumper CN1 to start the tank. I measured a track rpm of 48.4 which translates to a scale speed of 27 mph. It is a small improvement, but much less than the 30-31 mph that I predicted.

The TD metal gearbox has more vibration and noise than the Heng Xin and Torro gearbox I have on the other Heng Long tanks.

[keilau]

Both of mine are that way as well. It posses no running issues to date. In fact both have excellent track retention even on rather rough off camber terrain that is notorious for causing "de tracking".

That said it could at some point cause an issue if the track is too slack and not properly tensioned.

After I worked the sprocket D-shape shaft hole to a mirror finish, the sprocket will not go in any more than before. So I know some part of the hole is too small. I get out my mini cordless rotary tool (a $20 4V very low power tool from Amazon). The low power low rpm tool is perfect for this job that it will not grid away too much. With patience, I enlarged the hole just the right amount to fit.

Does it make any difference in running? Probably not. But a straight line track surely look better to the guy who's working on it.

[Rubicon99]

I examined the completed metal upgarde and was disappointed that the track does not line up straight. The front idler wheels are fine. But the rear sprocket were mounted about 0.8 mm too far outboard causing the track to not line up straight. When replacing the metal sprocket with the plastic one on the metal gearbox, the problem disappears. The metal gearbox drive shaft was extended out exactly the same as the plastic gearbox. I mic the shaft diameter and drive shaft hole diameter on both sprockets. Same for the drive shsft length and D shape well length. There is NO discrepancy among all the gears. Yet, the plastic sprockets has no problem going all the way down, but the metal sprockets wont.

My suspection is that the cast metal wall of the drive shaft D-shape hole is NOT as smooth as the plastic sprockets. I plan to smooth it with a jeweller's file set and add some lubricant. Hope that will solve the problem.

Both of mine are that way as well. It posses no running issues to date. In fact both have excellent track retention even on rather rough off camber terrain that is notorious for causing "de tracking".

That said it could at some point cause an issue if the track is too slack and not properly tensioned.

[keilau]

I examined the completed metal upgarde and was disappointed that the track does not line up straight. The front idler wheels are fine. But the rear sprocket were mounted about 0.8 mm too far outboard causing the track to not line up straight. When replacing the metal sprocket with the plastic one on the metal gearbox, the problem disappears. The metal gearbox drive shaft was extended out exactly the same as the plastic gearbox. I mic the shaft diameter and drive shaft hole diameter on both sprockets. Same for the drive shsft length and D shape well length. There is NO discrepancy among all the gears. Yet, the plastic sprockets has no problem going all the way down, but the metal sprockets wont.

My suspection is that the cast metal wall of the drive shaft D-shape hole is NOT as smooth as the plastic sprockets. I plan to smooth it with a jeweller's file set and add some lubricant. Hope that will solve the problem.

[keilau]

I replaced the TD motors with a pair of the Tamiya380 on the gearbox. The motor were really screwed on tight to the gearbox case. I already noticed that TD used cheap screws (M2.5) for the motor mounting. I still stripped the philips head of the 4th screw. It took me a 3 hours battle to remove this screw from the motor. I mounted the tamiya motors and reassembled the gearbox.

The 4 screws hold the 2 gearbox halfs together are NOT the standard M3 machine screws that I expect. The screws are coarse thread self tapping type. I decided not to touch them.

While Tongde tank has reasonable chassis structure thickness, they have this bad habit of drilling screw holes in to the structure making the screw seat at half the thickness. The result is many crack and broken places. It happens at both side of the gearbox mount.

The self tapping screw also created a one inch crack on the plastic gearbox. I repaired it with a small amount of CA glue and sanded it down flash again. The screw looks like a #4 screw which is just a hair smaller than the M3 machine screw. I decide to tap the holes on the gearbox for M3 machine thread. Because the #4 screw hole is smaller leaving enough material for the M3 tap. The metal gearbox is now using M3 machine screw which makes me feel much more secure.

I will use the sprocket and idler wheel unpainted for now. Should finish the other side much faster tomorrow.

[keilau]

Most aspects of the TD metal drive chain is well understood due to @Rubincon99 excellent review. There is still lots of questions on whether the non-servo HL recoil unit will work with TK-6.0/7.0 main board. I believe that they would and hope to confirm that in the next day or two.

Unfortunately, my 2005 HL 3838 Snow Leopard has a turret that doesn't match the new recoil cannon. The external turret shape is ok, but the cut out etc changed enough to not to fit. I tested it and find the recoil works very well. I am looking to purchase a newer Pershing turret now. I pack the Pershing away after testing. Back to my TD M60 upgrade now.

[Rubicon99]

The thing that I hate most about the HL post WW2 tanks is its body shaking "recoil". With the later add-on from HL, I can change it to the more realistic barrel recoil for a $40 part or less. That's a welcome upgrade.

I have ordered an universal barrel recoil BB unit from Toucan. I will see if I can put it on the TD M60 without major hardware surgery. If it works, it would be great too.

You can turn off the "shake". Well kind of, if you reduce the track recoil or turn it off completely it will often also illuminate the "hit" shake.

[keilau]

The non servo recoil will work with the HL 6/7 systems. Does it work with the TD system? Most likely.

The thing that I hate most about the HL post WW2 tanks is its body shaking "recoil". With the later add-on from HL, I can change it to the more realistic barrel recoil for a $40 part or less. That's a welcome upgrade.

I have ordered an universal barrel recoil BB unit from Toucan. I will see if I can put it on the TD M60 without major hardware surgery. If it works, it would be great too.