TD M60 A3 review.

[keilau]

I am still waiting for the metal gearbox, sproket and idler from DKLM-HK. I will be lucky to get all the metal parts by end of May.

Finally, get the TongDe M60 prepared internally and magneted up for test runs. This is the slowest 1:16 scale RC tank I currently have! It is pathetic. I have not done any test to pinpoint the problem yet. The gearbox ratio too high? The TongDe 380 too slow? @Robicon99 already tried red390 and it does not fit. The Tamiya380 and Torro Black380 will help a little, but probably not enough.

I plan to test a Mabuchi RS-380SH-4528 Motor which is spec to run 25200rpm at 7.4 volts. Anybody has tried this motor before?

[RichJohnson]

Since I have been collaborating with JVM 3d Concepts I have entered into an agreement with them to market their products for the rc tank community.
I have an order for several sets of m60 tortion bar brackets that I should be able to start shipping in a week or so.
The MSRP on these is 16.50 plus tax and shipping.
pm me to get on the waiting list.

[Rubicon99]

Who is the manufacturer and seller of this "New improved "lock down" covers for TD M60"? I am very interested in getting a full set for replacing the TongDe OEM covers.

They are being made by JVM3Dconcepts.

PM me for more details.

[keilau]

New improved "lock down" covers for TD M60. The one on the right is still wet and just out of a cleaning wash. These will be available soon for those needing replacement or that want upgraded parts. There are plans to make them in aluminum but those will be expensive.

Who is the manufacturer and seller of this "New improved "lock down" covers for TD M60"? I am very interested in getting a full set for replacing the TongDe OEM covers.

[Rubicon99]

After I completed mounting the components on the platform, I buttoned up the tank for a test run. It makes funny noise. Close inspection showed that one of the road wheel is flapping up and down. I inadvertently broke one of the torsion bar covers when trying to tighten down the platform. Go back to the workbench to repair and reinforce all the covers per Rubicon99 style. Sign!!

The photo shown above of the repaired "lock down" cover was my first attempt. I ended up having to go back and add a full brass plate covering the glued back together black plastic cover. This worked much better and has not failed. I have since had the covers reverse engineered by JVM3Dconcepts and printed in a high strength engineering resin which is slightly thicker on the top section and stronger then the factory plastic.

New improved "lock down" covers for TD M60. The one on the right is still wet and just out of a cleaning wash. These will be available soon for those needing replacement or that want upgraded parts. There are plans to make them in aluminum but those will be expensive.

[keilau]

I have the torsion bars "tightened" for more down pressure which caused the wheel to travel even further forward. Had I not "tightened" the torsion bar the SNAP and subsequent broken torsion bar mounting cover would not have happened.

So what was learned? The torsion bar covers need be be strengthened and a simple re-enforcement/modification to the cover will add great durability for harder use. Also I will be looking at adding a down travel limiter to the Special right and left road wheels

See photo of broken covers and my simple fix / modification.

The brass C brace was made to fit snugly and was attached via an epoxy resin. I will be installing this modification to all the covers at some point in the future.

After I completed mounting the components on the platform, I buttoned up the tank for a test run. It makes funny noise. Close inspection showed that one of the road wheel is flapping up and down. I inadvertently broke one of the torsion bar covers when trying to tighten down the platform. Go back to the workbench to repair and reinforce all the covers per Rubicon99 style. Sign!!

[Rubicon99]

The HL/Mato/Torro metal idler wheel uses 5x8x2.5mm sealed ball bearings, but I do not have any spare left to try. I will wait for @Rubicon99 answer before I order again.

The bearings you have listed are to are far large, the TD bearings are much smaller. The bearings I test fitted where borrowed from my metal TD M60. I don't want to post the measurements of the bearings I ordered until they arrive and I make sure of the fit. That will be end of next week.

Also I have had JVM3Dconcepts design and make new bushing to replace the place bushing on the basic TD M60 suspension arms. The stock/basic plastic bushing are slightly to big and allow the suspension arms to wobble around. The JVM3D bushing are based on measurement taken from the metal M60s bearings and hold the suspension arms equally as tight as the metal bearings. Taking out the wobble enhances track retention which makes for more reliable running.

I will post photos of both the wheel bearings and new bushing soon.

[keilau]

What size bearings are they?

Glad to hear the motors are HL size. Got lots of those. However, the red loctite has done the trick for now.

The HL/Mato/Torro metal idler wheel uses 5x8x2.5mm sealed ball bearings, but I do not have any spare left to try. I will wait for @Rubicon99 answer before I order again.

[SoCalBobS]

The plastic wheels are "identical" to the metal wheels. I had no issues adding bearings.
.

What size bearings are they?

Glad to hear the motors are HL size. Got lots of those. However, the red loctite has done the trick for now.

[keilau]

Just finished the M60A1 upper and lower chassis magnetization. The fit is very good, no visible or feelable gap. It does not feel as snappy or as steady as the HL M4A3 Sherman magneted chassis. Being a much bigger tank (than the Sherman) with only 4 mounting posts, it is not unexpected. Magnet may be a poor choice for a M60 size used as a battle tank.

I cut a 7"x5"x1/16" plastic for the platform above the torsion bars. Marked out the notch on the side and will finish it tomorrow.

I used an unused mounting post to fix the plastic platform in position. It simply lay on top of the torsion bars.

The 5x7" has plenty of estate for the loose receiver motherboard, loudspeaker and battery. The 2S1P Lithium-Ion26650 pack can provide 2,5 to 3 hours of continuous runtime which should be good for a whole day's activities. It is velcro mounted to facilitate removal for charging. The MB and speaker are fix mounted.

The M60 is the perfect size tank for DIY upgrades. With torsion bar and metal suspension arms, it offers a lot of upgrade potentials.

[Rubicon99]

Are the bearings for the plastic idler wheels just drop ins? I am still rearranging the fapping around inside receiver MB, speaker and battery and waiting for the metal gearbox from DKLM. It did not leave Hong Kong yet after a week.

The plastic wheels are "identical" to the metal wheels. I had no issues adding bearings.

DKLM takes a REALLY long time to ship out orders. I suspect the TD tanks and parts are being drop shipped from the factory so it takes even longer. But once shipped they arrive quickly.

[keilau]

Yes. Although the idlers I would leave on even if it was plastic since the plastic ones also have rubber tires. One my second M60 now being worked on I am leaving the plastic idler wheels (though adding bearing) but will be swapping out the sprockets for metal ones.

Are the bearings for the plastic idler wheels just drop ins? I am still rearranging the fapping around inside receiver MB, speaker and battery and waiting for the metal gearbox from DKLM. It did not leave Hong Kong yet after a week.

[Rubicon99]

I assume that you leave the metal sprocket and metal idler wheel on?

Yes. Although the idlers I would leave on even if it was plastic since the plastic ones also have rubber tires. One my second M60 now being worked on I am leaving the plastic idler wheels (though adding bearing) but will be swapping out the sprockets for metal ones.

[keilau]

I finally got the plastic replacement tracks in and swapped them out with my metal tracks. The plastic tracks matted to the "metal" M60 are IMO a far better match. The tank is lighter handling, more responsive and much quieter.

Shown here are the new plastic tracks rust weathered and just after driving for a 20 minutes of testing. They ran perfectly!!

I assume that you leave the metal sprocket and metal idler wheel on?

[Rubicon99]

I finally got the plastic replacement tracks in and swapped them out with my metal tracks. The plastic tracks matted to the "metal" M60 are IMO a far better match. The tank is lighter handling, more responsive and much quieter.

Shown here are the new plastic tracks rust weathered and just after driving for a 20 minutes of testing. They ran perfectly!!

[keilau]

Just finished the M60A1 upper and lower chassis magnetization. The fit is very good, no visible or feelable gap. It does not feel as snappy or as steady as the HL M4A3 Sherman magneted chassis. Being a much bigger tank (than the Sherman) with only 4 mounting posts, it is not unexpected. Magnet may be a poor choice for a M60 size used as a battle tank.

I cut a 7"x5"x1/16" plastic for the platform above the torsion bars. Marked out the notch on the side and will finish it tomorrow.

[Rubicon99]

Update:

The key word in the previous post is "slipping". I could run the motor, hold the track still and listen to a slipping noise. There's only one spot in the gear train that can slip and not grind. Motor pinion gear! Sure enough, I removed it, aligned it with my gear puller and after four or five twists, it slid right off. So, two things: I have half a dozen or so loose Heng Long motors, left over from upgrades. I also have some Red Loctite. This time I chose the latter and Loctite'ed it. It takes 24 hours to cure, so I'll have to wait to see if it grabs enough. Now, the TD and HL motors look identical externally. The pinion gears are the same size and the same number of teeth. If option A doesn't work, I'll just replace the motors.

I share this in case anyone encounters the same issue. Good luck, everyone!

Oh, on another topic: DKLM posted a video demonstrating how to tweak the torsion bars, which would raise the tank if desired. I may have to do this if I replace the plastic gearboxes with heavier metal ones. It's dirt simple, take a look.

Bob the HL 380 motors are direct drop in. Mine is running HL motors and pinions.

I was glad to see the DKLM put out a video of how to tweak the torsion bars after I spoke with them about how I did mine. They too are listening to feedback. 👍👍

[Rubicon99]

Got my second M60A3 in today that will be used as donor chassis for an upcoming M60A2 "starship" build.

I ordered the all plastic version, two sets of plastic tracks and metal gearboxes to replace the stock plastic ones. When it arrived I saw that the spare track I ordered were "chevron" tracks which have not been offered yet in plastic (very pleasant surprise as these are what I wanted more) but there was no metal gearboxes included in the packaging. Thinking they might have stuffed them in with the tank, I pulled the tank out of the box, no metal gearboxes there either.

BUT then I saw something exciting. The all plastic tank I ordered came with the metal suspension arms not plastic ones!!!

So where were the metal gearboxes I ordered? They were finally located installed in the tank!!

I don't know why it was sent with metal suspension arms and the gearboxes installed but I am not complaining as this is how they should all come standard.

A few other notes. The battery and speaker now have mounting brackets and are secured tightly in place.

I am pleased to see that TongDe is listening to feedback and making changes that improved their products.

Photos of the gearboxes, suspension arms, chevron tracks and new internal brackets.

[SoCalBobS]

Update:

The key word in the previous post is "slipping". I could run the motor, hold the track still and listen to a slipping noise. There's only one spot in the gear train that can slip and not grind. Motor pinion gear! Sure enough, I removed it, aligned it with my gear puller and after four or five twists, it slid right off. So, two things: I have half a dozen or so loose Heng Long motors, left over from upgrades. I also have some Red Loctite. This time I chose the latter and Loctite'ed it. It takes 24 hours to cure, so I'll have to wait to see if it grabs enough. Now, the TD and HL motors look identical externally. The pinion gears are the same size and the same number of teeth. If option A doesn't work, I'll just replace the motors.

I share this in case anyone encounters the same issue. Good luck, everyone!

Oh, on another topic: DKLM posted a video demonstrating how to tweak the torsion bars, which would raise the tank if desired. I may have to do this if I replace the plastic gearboxes with heavier metal ones. It's dirt simple, take a look.

[SoCalBobS]

I have the "tan" M60 in the photo and videos. I have an observation for prospective owners. Good tank, good size, good suspension, did well at the field. There are two potential weakness with the TD drive train; the gear boxes, and the sprockets. R99's tank has metal gearboxes and sprockets, I have plastic sprockets and gearboxes, although the gears are metal in both our tanks. In regular driving, my setup is sufficient. However, in the extreme operations we conducted, a gear box has failed. Under load, the motor will run but something is slipping, causing the sprocket not to rotate.

Since R99's M60 has been subjected to substantially more abuse than mine and is running flawlessly, my solution is clear: replace the plastic gear boxes with metal, and that solution has been ordered.

The other flaw I mentioned is the sprocket itself. Mine and R99's are fine. The story here is that when I originally got my tank, there was gearbox damage maybe from the factory or more likely during shipping. This would cause severe jamming, and put stress on the sprocket which ultimately cracked where it fit on the axle. Although this has not reoccurred to me, or at all to R99's metal setup, my preemptive solution is to also obtain metal sprockets. I won't install them unless the plastic ones beak, but it's "better to have them and not need them then....."

I recommend buyers add metal gearboxes and sprockets. I'll let R99 address the relative merits of metal roadwheels, etc., so buyers can decide whether to get the standard tank plus extras, or full metal setups. We both are very happy with the product, with the above provisos.

Oh, and in the photo with my tan tank, it had no trouble extricating itself from that ditch!