Official Freewing F/A-18C Hornet 90mm EDF Thread

[Evan D]

Maiden plus two last Sunday. Batteries charges for six tomorrow.

[thisguy65]

My rudder started to shutter so BB coming out

[DCORSAIR]

Maiden plus two last Sunday. Batteries charges for six tomorrow.

Thanks for the ESC Evan, got it installed and more flights in the morning if the BB gremlins don't come out to shoot me down.....:Scared:

[Evan D]

You’re welcome! As I said I only have the retracts and lights on my MCBE. Every thing else goes to its own channel on a 12ch receiver. Same on my F-22. Gives me peace of mind, individual centering and throws, and the ability to do some great mixes.

[killickb]

So now I have to buy a Graupner Rx ? Will a Jeti do? Did not see that in the marketing hype. If the B/B cannot work with EVERY Rx/ESC combination likely to be installed in the model then it needs to be very much redesigned and the current one recalled.

[Peteflys]

If you place the elevator at about neutral, you will see a panel line approx. where the front tip of the elevator is. You want the tip of the elevator to be 7mm below that line so as to simulate a bit of UP elevator (ie, the tip of the elevator is 7mm below that line). This, is fact, is the neutral position for the elevator.

Thanks guys, I really appreciate it. Once I saw the pictures from the earlier post, I had one of those "duh!" moments!

[crxmanpat]

My rudder started to shutter so BB coming out

I would start off by taking just the rudders and nose steering out of the BB and put them on a Y harness. If you have a spare one for landing gear that would be best as it gives you three plug slots (2 rudder and one nose steering). Alternately you need to Y connectors (both rudders into one Y, then that lead Y'd with the nose steering). If that works and everything functions correctly, then you won't have to run wires for the wings.

[crxmanpat]

So now I have to buy a Graupner Rx ? Will a Jeti do? Did not see that in the marketing hype. If the B/B cannot work with EVERY Rx/ESC combination likely to be installed in the model then it needs to be very much redesigned and the current one recalled.

I agree that it should work with all RX brands. I'm not sure if this is something to do with specific RX brands, or if it's a voltage issue or what. I think I'll start a thread for everyone who has issues wit hthe BB to post up exactly what's going on. Maybe if we put all of the info in one spot, Motion and Freewing can figure out what's going on. Otherwise this will happen with every newe plane that comes out and has an MCB-E in it.

[TPS]

My BB Box is junk too. Flaps wont work, except sometimes, and once in a while both. Thinking of just leaving gear and lights plugged into it IF they send me a new one. Last time I had problems Motion wasn't too eager to help.

This thing is SERIOUSLY under powered just like the F-4 after programming the ESC as mentioned in the earlier threads.

Wonder if the high performance F-15 fan and esc combo would be better

Desertlakeflying: All videos show how well these planes fly at sea level. In Denver (5,800 feet elevation) sea level thrust loss is approximately 25-30%. Even if you install the F-15 high performance EDF, you will be disappointed. I tired that combination - not very high performance. After several years of experimenting with EDF, motor, ESC and battery combinations, I settled for Jetfan EDFs, HET motors and Castle Creations ESCs. I'm standardized on 6S batteries for all my planes. Food for thought - a little pricey but well worth the performance gains: My FW F-22 and F-4 have 90mm Jetfan EDFs with HET 700-60-2610KV motors. I use the 200A CC ESCs with reverse thrust option. I recommend 70C+ batteries for all these applications. The thrust for both of these planes come in at 8.5 lbs - these combinations will outperform 8S setups. The 6S battery (5,500mah, 70C) will save weight and offer about 2.5 minute flights with 30% left. These motors will pull 171 amps at full throttle (I always factor a 30% ESC headroom for all motor combinations - that is why the 200A CC ESC). In the FW F-18, I use the 90mm Jetfan EDF with the HET 700-68-2250KV motor and a CC 160A ESC. This combination (with a 6S, 5500mah, 70C battery) produces 7.25 lbs of thrust and offers about 2.5 minute flights with 30% left. This pulls 137 amps at full throttle. After landing, I switch to reverse thrust and stop the plane in 10 feet. All my thrust combinations are measured with a digital fish scale - no guess work here. I always check my amp draw and watt output with the 180A tester that MotionRC sells before any maiden flight. I guesstimate that 400 watts equals 1 lb. of thrust at my altitude. Like I said, these combinations offer real performance gains at high altitude fields but at a price. I rather have one good high performance plane instead of two dogs.
I've tried other EDF/motor combinations but none of them come up to their performance claims. After a lot of testing, my recommendations work the best. In the F-22 and the F-4, I also use an 8000mah, 6S, 100C battery and get 4/5 minute flights with 30% left. These two fly as fast at half throttle as the stock versions fly at full throttle at my altitude. You never have enough power. As I said earlier - just food for though.

[thisguy65]

I would start off by taking just the rudders and nose steering out of the BB and put them on a Y harness. If you have a spare one for landing gear that would be best as it gives you three plug slots (2 rudder and one nose steering). Alternately you need to Y connectors (both rudders into one Y, then that lead Y'd with the nose steering). If that works and everything functions correctly, then you won't have to run wires for the wings.

I've already took out everything, got the harnesses. I have a spare BB that I use for LED testing, etc. That BB did the same thing as well. Using Lemon gyro rx, for those that are wondering.

My 1600 spit, corsair, F-22, L-39 are been great. F-18 on the other hand kinda being annoying thing after annoying thing.

[crxmanpat]

So you had no issues with the blue box in the L-39 or F-22? Any difference in RX between those and the F-18?

[crxmanpat]

I created a new thread to report blue box issues. If you've had any issues with it in any of the 3 planes it has been released in (L-39, F-22, F-18), please post the details on this thread:

https://www.hobbysquawk.com/forum/rc-airplanes/propeller-airplanes/202058-mcb-e-blue-box-issues-post-up-your-experiences

[thisguy65]

So you had no issues with the blue box in the L-39 or F-22? Any difference in RX between those and the F-18?

No issue in the Spitfire (admrial 6 channel gyro rx), Corsair, L-39,F-22 (Lemon 6ch gyro),

I use to have admrial in the F-22 but put a Lemon w/sat (gyro to) in it. I use Lemon 6 ch Sat, with gyro in all my planes now.

[crxmanpat]

Weird that the Lemon works in the F-22 and L-39, but not in the F-18.

By the way, just put a volt meter on both the XPS and Graupner RXs. Both are reading 5v dead on for output. So maybe this is not a voltage issue, but something else?

[Carlbrainiac]

I would start off by taking just the rudders and nose steering out of the BB and put them on a Y harness. If you have a spare one for landing gear that would be best as it gives you three plug slots (2 rudder and one nose steering). Alternately you need to Y connectors (both rudders into one Y, then that lead Y'd with the nose steering). If that works and everything functions correctly, then you won't have to run wires for the wings.

The problem with doing this is the nose wheel will then be trying to steer inside the fuselage when the gear is retracted and you are giving rudder inputs...

The blue box cuts the nose steering ability separate from the rudders when the gear is retracted.

Might have to get creative with some very clever mixing. Or just cut away enough foam so the wheel has room to steer in the gear bay lol

[fhhuber]

I put the nosewheel on a separate channel from the rudder(s) then mix rudder t that and apply expo to the nosewheel. Put the mix on the same switch as the retracts so when the retracts go up, the nosewheel centers and is no longer affected by the rudder channel.

You typically want tight turn capability from the nosewheel for taxi, but dn't want it to be touchy for takeoff and landing, thus the expo.

[Carlbrainiac]

I put the nosewheel on a separate channel from the rudder(s) then mix rudder t that and apply expo to the nosewheel. Put the mix on the same switch as the retracts so when the retracts go up, the nosewheel centers and is no longer affected by the rudder channel.

You typically want tight turn capability from the nosewheel for taxi, but dn't want it to be touchy for takeoff and landing, thus the expo.

Ahh well done sir. Would have never of thought of using expo in this way especially as I dont normally use it at all. Very clever 👍
Does your nose gear light still come on as it comes down and goes off as it goes up though?

[fredmdbud]

The problem with doing this is the nose wheel will then be trying to steer inside the fuselage when the gear is retracted and you are giving rudder inputs...

The blue box cuts the nose steering ability separate from the rudders when the gear is retracted.

Might have to get creative with some very clever mixing. Or just cut away enough foam so the wheel has room to steer in the gear bay lol

The long rod on the steering arm in the nose retract has a sliding "horn" where the steering rod and clevis connect. In the up position, the steering horn slides up and down on it without moving the steering arm.

Ahh well done sir. Would have never of thought of using expo in this way especially as I dont normally use it at all. Very clever 👍
Does your nose gear light still come on as it comes down and goes off as it goes up though?

If the LED cable is still connected to the MCB-E ("Blue Box"), then it should.

[Wolfgang Wagner]

I put this on the F-18 thread on RCG in response to someone who said he proved his MCB-E is faulty and not because of RX compatibility. Figured it may do some good here too.

So far I have had the L-39, F-22 and F/A-18C with the MCB-E. Prior to the F-18 I was using a JR XP9303 converted to 2.4GHz using XPS. I had an XPS Nano RX in the L-39, and the XPS Nano RX with the X10 channel expander board in the F-22. In the F-18 I went straight to Graupner and did not have any issues at all with the MCB-E.

On the L-39, everything worked fine with the gear up, but rudder and nose steering stopped working with the gear down. Sometimes the rudder and steering servos would twitch on their own as well with gear down. Bypassed the MCB-E for rudder and nose steering and went direct to the RX and no issues up until the point I sold it a few months ago.

On my F-22, same as the L-39 everything worked fine with gear up, but as soon as you dropped the gear the rudder and nose steering servos went wild, deflecting rudders up to 8mm. They still moved with stick input, but were chattering like crazy. Once again I bypassed the MCB-E for rudder and nose steering, and everything worked fine.

So I've been meaning to move the F-22 over to the Graupner radio, and decided first to try a little experiment. I got 2 great flights on my F-22 this morning still using the XPS setup with rudder and nose steering direct to the RX. I just went back in and hooked everything back up stock with the XPS RX, and once again rudders and nose steering are acting crazy. So I then stripped out the XPS system and put in a Graupner GR-16L RX. Now everything is connected to the MCB-E and lo and behold everything works perfectly.

This tells me the MCB-E in my F-22 is NOT defective. What I believe the issue is, and I have put forth this theory before, is that the MCB-E is sensitive to voltage input from the RX (and yes, I consider that a problem, but it won't be fixed by getting a replacement MCB-E as I went down that road with the L-39). I'd be willing to bet that the voltage output from my XPS RX is higher than the Graupner, and the MCB-E doesn't like it. So if you're having issues with your MCB-E ("blue box" or "BB"), just unplug the rudders and nose steering from the MCB-E and Y them direct to your RX. I bet that would solve 99% of the problems people are having with it.

Could be the reason, as the Manuel says max 6V.

[Alpha]

Thanks for posting that, Crxmanpat! You've hit on something we've emphasized for a reason. We don't have your XPS rx or DSM2 rx or some of the other receivers that have exhibited problems, but we did detect a pattern that receivers of a certain type/brand/model don't play nicely with the MFCB's 6.0V operating ceiling. We primarily fly Admiral and Futaba so that's what we tested, alongside a bevy of other radios/receivers (FlySky, FrSky, Dynam, Spektrum DSMX, Hitec). That being said, we don't have access to and did not test it on every single receiver on the market, so the manual's stated voltage of 6.0v really needs to be the guiding parameter here. Currently, our electrical engineers are working to increase the input voltage range for future MFCBs to help mitigate any issues being caused by the incompatibility you describe. (But I don't expect them to make it truly 2S compatible or something like that --such would require a completely new configuration and is outside the scope of these foam aircraft.)

Of course we've seen sporadic issues with receivers from Admiral, Futaba, and Lemon, which underscores that voltage alone isn't the only factor. From a poor physical connection or a pulled up pad, or being plugged in reverse polarity, or not being plugged in at all, or adding too many high current 3W LEDs to the circuit and sapping the bus, etc. We've heard a range. The total reported issues, including all causes from user-related to physical to electrical or as-yet-undetermined, is still a fraction of percent of MFCBs in circulation. Nevertheless, we're taking all the feedback to widen the range as I mention above, and to overall reduce the number of reported issues caused by supplier-side factors. On the user-side, I'd encourage us all to read the manual regarding voltage and other setup functions (such as Single Stage and Dual Stage gear door modes), and avoid plugging in voltages higher than 6.0V. This includes receiver batteries such as 2s LiFe (~6.6v). Don't use those with the MFCB, ever.

There were reports of paint overspray on connectors, also. We've run into this before with all our other brands including Freewing at different times over the years and it sometimes bears repeating at the weekly QC management meeting at the factory, since they are the first line of defense to prevent such a thing from arriving to a customer. If it does happen that a connector arrives with paint overspray, common sense rules --clean the paint off the outside and inside of the connector before making the connection.



I'd encourage anyone with specific MFCB issues to post in Crxmanpat's thread on the topic:

https://www.hobbysquawk.com/forum/rc-airplanes/propeller-airplanes/202058-mcb-e-blue-box-issues-post-up-your-experiences