Official Freewing F/A-18C Hornet 90mm EDF Thread

[crxmanpat]

Thanks Alpha. And I too had over spray on my rudder connectors. Fortunately, the connector openings were facing inwards, so paint did not get inside, just on the outer case.

[Wolfgang Wagner]

Thanks for posting that, Crxmanpat! You've hit on something we've emphasized for a reason. We don't have your XPS rx or DSM2 rx or some of the other receivers that have exhibited problems, but we did detect a pattern that receivers of a certain type/brand/model don't play nicely with the MFCB's 6.0V operating ceiling. We primarily fly Admiral and Futaba so that's what we tested, alongside a bevy of other radios/receivers (FlySky, FrSky, Dynam, Spektrum DSMX, Hitec). That being said, we don't have access to and did not test it on every single receiver on the market, so the manual's stated voltage of 6.0v really needs to be the guiding parameter here. Currently, our electrical engineers are working to increase the input voltage range for future MFCBs to help mitigate any issues being caused by the incompatibility you describe. (But I don't expect them to make it truly 2S compatible or something like that --such would require a completely new configuration and is outside the scope of these foam aircraft.)

Of course we've seen sporadic issues with receivers from Admiral, Futaba, and Lemon, which underscores that voltage alone isn't the only factor. From a poor physical connection or a pulled up pad, or being plugged in reverse polarity, or not being plugged in at all, or adding too many high current 3W LEDs to the circuit and sapping the bus, etc. We've heard a range. The total reported issues, including all causes from user-related to physical to electrical or as-yet-undetermined, is still a fraction of percent of MFCBs in circulation. Nevertheless, we're taking all the feedback to widen the range as I mention above, and to overall reduce the number of reported issues caused by supplier-side factors. On the user-side, I'd encourage us all to read the manual regarding voltage and other setup functions (such as Single Stage and Dual Stage gear door modes), and avoid plugging in voltages higher than 6.0V. This includes receiver batteries such as 2s LiFe (~6.6v). Don't use those with the MFCB, ever.

There were reports of paint overspray on connectors, also. We've run into this before with all our other brands including Freewing at different times over the years and it sometimes bears repeating at the weekly QC management meeting at the factory, since they are the first line of defense to prevent such a thing from arriving to a customer. If it does happen that a connector arrives with paint overspray, common sense rules --clean the paint off the outside and inside of the connector before making the connection.



I'd encourage anyone with specific MFCB issues to post in Crxmanpat's thread on the topic:

https://www.hobbysquawk.com/forum/rc-airplanes/propeller-airplanes/202058-mcb-e-blue-box-issues-post-up-your-experiences

Thx Alpha, so have you a recommendation of several combos (Tx/Rx, etc) that have been tested uneventful?

[thisguy65]

Thanks Alpha for all your hard work and what you have done for us and this hobby. It says a lot about Freewing.

[Carlbrainiac]

I'm hoping as I use Futaba and mine will be the second batch hopefully I wont have any issues.

[duke]

With everything I have read i'm wondering if it's safe to fly my F-18. I have it all together and everything is operating as it should.
Fly now or WAIT??????

[fhhuber]

Ahh well done sir. Would have never of thought of using expo in this way especially as I dont normally use it at all. Very clever 👍
Does your nose gear light still come on as it comes down and goes off as it goes up though?

You Y the gear and RX power to the multifunction board to get the lighting to work. I use the multifunction board to do retract/door sequencing and lights. I remove everything else.

[Wolfgang Wagner]

I'm hoping as I use Futaba and mine will be the second batch hopefully I wont have any issues.

Same for me, Spektrum Dx9 + Admiral Rx700T and ETA for EU still pending. Letˋs hope for the best.

[Geebros]

I’m using FUTABA and with bench testing I’m getting no issues. I still may pull control surfaces from the BB and go straight to receiver. 🤔

[flyAA]

With everything I have read i'm wondering if it's safe to fly my F-18. I have it all together and everything is operating as it should.
Fly now or WAIT??????

If it was me and you’re not having any issues testing on the bench i would 100% go fly. It seems most of these issues will present themselves pretty obviously during testing.

Mine is coming late June and that’s what I’m going to do.

[Alpha]

Hi FlyAA and others with the same question, please see my previous post made about 24 hours ago regarding flying your maiden flight with confidence. Freewing is confident to the point that they'll back up and maiden flights even more than usual. I'd say that if you're tested everything 100% as usual (wiring, connections, programming, servos, smooth operation, mixes, battery voltage, receiver range test), then go ahead and fly with confidence. If you're still wary, film it with a camera phone. 'Won't hurt if you needed something to show the CS team to warranty a replacement IF something factory-related downs the plane on maiden.

It's also very, very important for everyone to realize that the F-18 was produced simultaneously alongside several other aircraft, so the notion that only the F-18 got a bad batch of servos or MFCBs is misguided. The 17g elevator servos were pulled from the same boxes and installed in F-18s, F-22s, F-4s, F-16s, and a dozen other aircraft during the same period. Same situation with the MFCB.

The factory doesn't produce only one model at one time in a linear fashion from start to finish. Rather, there are multiple production lines all working from the same component boxes on either sides of the aisles. This is important because, IF there was a "bad batch" of components, logic would dictate we'd be seeing failures across multiple aircraft produced during that same period and having arrived in that same container two weeks ago. Which, we're not.

The CS Team deals with crashed airplanes all day, every day. I think the F-18 is getting extra attention because it's new and big and a couple prominent members have crashed, which is fair and important to share here, but I'm also sharing the above information of how things are really produced to help dispel the notion that a "bad batch" would only affect one plane. It would affect all of them. Which again, it hasn't yet.

F-18s comprise only a percentage of the Freewing models in those shipments that we've delivered over the past ten days that used the same servo and MFCB.

[Alpha]

Thx Alpha, so have you a recommendation of several combos (Tx/Rx, etc) that have been tested uneventful?

I fly the Spektrum DX9 with the barebones (unstabilized, non-satellite) Admiral 10ch or 6ch RX. Links below to the exact ones I used. Three of four of our test aircraft have logged over 200 flights, each, on the Hornet with one of these receivers below. I'll also restate that satellites make more sense for fast jets. Use your judgement and experience flying other jets in your specific airspace.

The fourth plane mostly flies a Futaba 8J with a 8ch rx and Hitec Aurora 9 with 9ch rx.

https://www.motionrc.com/products/admiral-rx1000-10-channel-dsmx-compatible-receiver-with-diversity-antenna?ras=featured-products&retailreco_source=retailreco&retailreco_medium=onsite&retailreco_campaign=featured-products&fp=1

https://www.motionrc.com/products/admiral-rx600-6-channel-dsmx-compatible-receiver-with-diversity-antenna?ras=raslcustomupsellcustomer&retailreco_source=retailreco&retailreco_medium=onsite&retailreco_campaign=raslcustomupsellcustomer&fp=3

I've never experienced any of the MFCB or connectivity issues that have been posted about since its release. And I log over 1,000 flights a month, easily, across at least 15-20 different types a month. But that's still just me, and I know that I alone am not a statistically significant sample size. For anyone who's experienced anything other than perfect operation with their MFCB, please post in Crxmanpat's "Blue Box Issue" thread. That would be very helpful to expand our sample size!

Thanks

[crxmanpat]

Flew my F-22 today after switching out the XPS RX for a Graupner, everything hooked to the blue box in stock configuration, and had no issues whatsoever.

And as Alpha said above, please go post on my thread about MCB-E issues if you are having any (link is above, or just go to the Miscellaneous Airplane Topics forum). Eventually I'd like to create a database of which receivers work and which seem to have issues.

[thisguy65]

Is there any Logic to these board? I would image so

curious between the E model and the D model

[Carlbrainiac]

Is there any Logic to these board? I would image so

curious between the E model and the D model

Search youtube for freewing MCB-E and you'll see the motion rc review video from back in October when James runs through it and briefly mentions the up coming D model too.

[crxmanpat]

Here's a pic of mine prior to my 3rd flight this morning.

[xviper]

Is there any Logic to these board? I would image so

curious between the E model and the D model

Not sure if these things fit the definition of "logic", but they must be able to throw some kind of circuit switch so it knows when to disable nose gear steering (like when the gear is up) and to know when to turn the landing light on/off. I consider these boards to be an evolution of the early circuit boards. Those were meant as circuit "collectors" where "Y's" could be eliminated and a limited number of grounds could be used, thus eliminating most of the grounds and some of the power leads. The problem (as I saw it) was that the grounding circuits were very poorly done and some leads didn't get a good ground and those servos worked strangely or not at all. Looking closely at some of those boards and their printed circuits under magnification, I could see that some adjacent solders migrated very closely to its neighbor and some pathways were almost touching another pathway, while some looked like they were actually touching. As these things evolved to do more and more, I wonder if the manufacture of the circuit boards have improved any or are they still being made in the same factory, using the same automated machines and bench workers.
Then comes the manual labor part of the assembly. Can you imagine sitting at a work station all day long, plugging in hundreds and maybe even thousands of servo plugs into wing boards and control boards and getting paid a buck an hour? I've seen plugs in the wrong positions on wing boards, wrong polarity or barely push on or push on with an offset and not having all 3 pins lined up. Also, plugs installed in the wrong positions on the control board and again, with wrong polarity, not fully seated. I've seen diagrams supplied with our planes of these boards and the diagram was WRONG. Imagine what that factory worker has to contend with. How many owners actually expose that wing board and take it apart to see what's on the back side? How many actually take the control board in hand and check all the plugs and compare with the diagram, which may or may not be correct? Do they put a servo tester on each plug to see if that is indeed the plug for the servo they think it should be for? I've seen on these forums that many owners don't even have a servo tester and some don't even know what one looks like or does. Or do they assume all that stuff is supposed to be "good to go", slap the plane together and send it up?

[Wolfgang Wagner]

I fly the Spektrum DX9 with the barebones (unstabilized, non-satellite) Admiral 10ch or 6ch RX. Links below to the exact ones I used. Three of four of our test aircraft have logged over 200 flights, each, on the Hornet with one of these receivers below. I'll also restate that satellites make more sense for fast jets. Use your judgement and experience flying other jets in your specific airspace.

The fourth plane mostly flies a Futaba 8J with a 8ch rx and Hitec Aurora 9 with 9ch rx.

https://www.motionrc.com/products/admiral-rx1000-10-channel-dsmx-compatible-receiver-with-diversity-antenna?ras=featured-products&retailreco_source=retailreco&retailreco_medium=onsite&retailreco_campaign=featured-products&fp=1

https://www.motionrc.com/products/admiral-rx600-6-channel-dsmx-compatible-receiver-with-diversity-antenna?ras=raslcustomupsellcustomer&retailreco_source=retailreco&retailreco_medium=onsite&retailreco_campaign=raslcustomupsellcustomer&fp=3

I've never experienced any of the MFCB or connectivity issues that have been posted about since its release. And I log over 1,000 flights a month, easily, across at least 15-20 different types a month. But that's still just me, and I know that I alone am not a statistically significant sample size. For anyone who's experienced anything other than perfect operation with their MFCB, please post in Crxmanpat's "Blue Box Issue" thread. That would be very helpful to expand our sample size!

Thanks

Hi Alpha, once again thank you very much for your research and support.

Wolfgang

[Woodcock]

Not sure if these things fit the definition of "logic", but they must be able to throw some kind of circuit switch so it knows when to disable nose gear steering (like when the gear is up) and to know when to turn the landing light on/off. I consider these boards to be an evolution of the early circuit boards. Those were meant as circuit "collectors" where "Y's" could be eliminated and a limited number of grounds could be used, thus eliminating most of the grounds and some of the power leads. The problem (as I saw it) was that the grounding circuits were very poorly done and some leads didn't get a good ground and those servos worked strangely or not at all. Looking closely at some of those boards and their printed circuits under magnification, I could see that some adjacent solders migrated very closely to its neighbor and some pathways were almost touching another pathway, while some looked like they were actually touching. As these things evolved to do more and more, I wonder if the manufacture of the circuit boards have improved any or are they still being made in the same factory, using the same automated machines and bench workers.
Then comes the manual labor part of the assembly. Can you imagine sitting at a work station all day long, plugging in hundreds and maybe even thousands of servo plugs into wing boards and control boards and getting paid a buck an hour? I've seen plugs in the wrong positions on wing boards, wrong polarity or barely push on or push on with an offset and not having all 3 pins lined up. Also, plugs installed in the wrong positions on the control board and again, with wrong polarity, not fully seated. I've seen diagrams supplied with our planes of these boards and the diagram was WRONG. Imagine what that factory worker has to contend with. How many owners actually expose that wing board and take it apart to see what's on the back side? How many actually take the control board in hand and check all the plugs and compare with the diagram, which may or may not be correct? Do they put a servo tester on each plug to see if that is indeed the plug for the servo they think it should be for? I've seen on these forums that many owners don't even have a servo tester and some don't even know what one looks like or does. Or do they assume all that stuff is supposed to be "good to go", slap the plane together and send it up?

Awesome write up Viper. No! I never use any magic boxes. If they're included in a plane I promptly remove it and hook up all my servos directly, I don't even use those handy multiple electrical wing connectors, (I have seen so may of my friends planes pancaked because of these). Personally they're are lots of things that can cause your prize plane to crash. Normal things! Why would you want to introduce a new unknown variable? Made by folks getting paid 1 Dollar an hour.

Landing gear sequencer. Yea I'll use one of these. But it will probably be one I build, not one a underpaid, underappreciated worker builds.

W

[xviper]

Don't be mistaken .................. Those workers who get a buck an hour are most likely bloody glad they have that job and in their own world, they wouldn't complain much, but when information leaks through that western workers get a minimum of 10 to 15 bucks an hour, I think that would sit in the corner of their brains and stew for a long time. And then they see what unionized auto workers get.
But that's another topic.

[Carlbrainiac]

In my opinion these planes aren't cheap. At the end of the day when you strip it all back we are paying hundreds for a bit of polystyrene. (I know theres more to it than that) But the fact remains that these models aren't cheap and so the components used and the manufacturer of those components should not be cheap. And when you sell a model as PNP. Plug and play. For me personally Yes I do expect to bolt it together and fly with no issues. Especially when it states things like no glue required, 3-4 hour assembly time. All these details imply that it is and should be a bolt together and go which is the very definition of plug n play.
Yes as a responsible pilot be it model or full size it is always wise to do pre flight checks. But it should be basically out of the box and into the air.