Official Freewing Twin 80mm/90mm A-10 Thunderbolt II Thread

[Hugh Wiedman]

crxmanpat I second Elbee that is an outstanding F14. Marvin did tell me the static winner was superb! And so it is. Do you know who ended up with the overall best scale jet? That was supposed to be a combination of your award and the best scale flight Marvin got, but he didn't know who got that and I just assumed it must have been you as well. Wish I could have gone and would have loved to see everyone. Unfortunately I've yet to see any decent YouTube accounts of the event, only a few that just shamelessly promote themselves as if they were the only ones there (gee, who could that be). Good to know that a Freewing EDF got Best Static and Best Scale Flight at least.

You should take that F14 to Top Gun this year as you would no doubt be one of the favorites in the electric category. My hat's off to you, haven't had the guts to try the F14 yet but hope to get there one day! My main flying buddy other than Marvin ( RudyD54 ) is in the middle of building out his F14 now so I hope to see it "up close and personal" and learn from him.

[Elbee]

That's awesome Hugh! I was there on Friday...My F-14 got Best Static Scale for my VF-1 repaint.

Pat, Well deserved award, my friend. She's a beauty. Bravo Zulu, Brother. Best, Steve

[crxmanpat]

That's awesome Hugh! I was there on Friday and watched Marvin make some great flights on it. My F-14 got Best Static Scale for my VF-1 repaint. Unfortunately I only got a few flights in before my radio decided it didn't want to cooperate. Somehow I managed to lock the touch screen and couldn't figure out what the problem was. Emailed Control Hobbies (dealer for Graupner) and they said to try the unlock screen function. Sure enough that's all it was. Oh well, at least I got to fly some and meet some great guys as this was my first event since moving back home to FL from AZ last July.

[Hugh Wiedman]

As stated above, you will love flying this airframe. She is docile and beautiful to watch in the air. Best, LB

As a further testament to that statement, my A-10 this last weekend got the Florida eJet Fest 2022 Best Scale Flight Award. I wasn't able to go to Lakeland for this as am still dealing with some "life issues" but my good friend and mentor, Marvin Alvarez (MarvinF14 if you're familiar with his YouTube channel), coerced me into letting him take my A-10 and F-4 to the event. He's certainly an outstanding pilot and was able to fly it nice an easy (despite a severe crosswind) for about 7 minutes in a "Top Gun" required sequence and was rewarded with 1st place. He's been after me for months to let him take it to Top Gun in May so he can enter it in the electric category, so looks like I haven't a choice anymore, hopefully will be able to attend with him. He won the electric competition a couple years ago with a military AL37, so this is nothing new to him (despite the fact his business is primarily building/selling/flying large turbine jets).

Anyway, it's easy to see why this particular Freewing model continues to sell well after so many years, clearly one of their best and certainly a favorite of mine (just wish I could fly it half as well as he does).

[Elbee]

Hi guys! New A-10 RC pilot here. Does anybody know the estimated stallspeed (indicated) of this gorgeous plane? Setting it up with a pitot-tube to be able to ride the stall limit for slow and low loveliness. Yes, I am aware of the possibility of finding it out for myself, but right now I am pre-maiden, and would love to have some reference number to start of with.

CR, Welcome to "The Squawk". Glad to have you onboard, Sir. As stated above, you will love flying this airframe. She is docile and beautiful to watch in the air. Best, LB

[xviper]

I very much doubt many have pitot tube speed sensor telemetry. I have one without telemetry but even that is a nuisance to mount on different planes every time I'm curious about speed.

[Capt_RedBeard (NOR)]

I have flown some fullsize, and understand basic airmanship. I totally agree with figuring it out myself, but still looking for a referancenumber to start of with. I’m guessing most RC pilots normally don’t know the stallspeed of their plane, but I am a bit anal about these things 😁

[xviper]

Hi guys! New A-10 RC pilot here. Does anybody know the estimated stallspeed (indicated) of this gorgeous plane? Setting it up with a pitot-tube to be able to ride the stall limit for slow and low loveliness. Yes, I am aware of the possibility of finding it out for myself, but right now I am pre-maiden, and would love to have some reference number to start of with.

Each plane flown at each location will have a different stall speed and different stall characteristics. If you have a pitot tube speed device, you would be best to take it up high and find out for yourself what your plane will do. Until you do this keep the speed up. Go up high and begin slowing it down until it can't fly anymore. You should have plenty of altitude to recover. Sometimes, the best way is to find out for yourself, in a safe, controlled way. I do this for every new plane I get. Not going to rely upon some number someone else throws out.

[crxmanpat]

Welcome and congrats on the A-10! It's one of my 2 favorites (next to the F-22). This plane has practically no stall at all and will fly very very slow, especially with full flaps out. It is probably the most stable airframe Freewing has ever done.

[Capt_RedBeard (NOR)]

Hi guys! New A-10 RC pilot here. Does anybody know the estimated stallspeed (indicated) of this gorgeous plane? Setting it up with a pitot-tube to be able to ride the stall limit for slow and low loveliness. Yes, I am aware of the possibility of finding it out for myself, but right now I am pre-maiden, and would love to have some reference number to start of with.

[themudduck]

Damn Marc, that looks way more nose heavy compared to mine. I must be a good 120 mm further aft on the battery placement than you are....

Yes I know, that pic I posted was the initial setup I had two years ago, per the manual, before we learned. Now I have my batteries sitting very similar to the way yours looks. But from Bazza's description of what happened it made me wonder if he had anything in the front compartment.... because it sounded like his plane was extremely nose heavy. I'm curious where he placed his batteries.

[Hugh Wiedman]

Hey Bazza, sorry to hear of this incident. Something was definitely wrong, I can't imagine how tail-heavy it must have been to behave like that. Where did you measure 90mm from?
Should be about 3.5 inches back from the LE of the wing where it meets the fuselage.

We need more info - I would like to know where you put your batteries. Did they look like this picture?
Or did you have them both in the back tray?

Damn Marc, that looks way more nose heavy compared to mine. I must be a good 120 mm further aft on the battery placement than you are. In fact I had to remove the circuit board screwed in to back end of the battery tray and stick it on the port fuselage wall just to get the batteries all the way back in. This photo has the RT 6250's each weighing 795 gr although now I'm exclusively using the SMC 6200's each weighing 814 gr pushed back even more and it definitely is not tail heavy for me. I do have the 3D printed "Dirty Dee" cockpit and a 1/10 scale JHH full body pilot in the cockpit adding a bit more weight to the nose, but I'm still around 92-95 mm on my balance point. Flies smooth as silk for me, with the gyro on or off. That front battery only has 1/8 of it on the elevated front battery tray so I had to add a platform holding the remaining 7/8's level where it steps down so it could lie flat.

[themudduck]

Hey Bazza, sorry to hear of this incident. Something was definitely wrong, I can't imagine how tail-heavy it must have been to behave like that. Where did you measure 90mm from?
Should be about 3.5 inches back from the LE of the wing where it meets the fuselage.

We need more info - I would like to know where you put your batteries. Did they look like this picture?
Or did you have them both in the back tray?

[Hugh Wiedman]

OK something is definitely wrong, I maidened my plane the other day and I set the Cof G at 90mm exactly and even had a friend double check to make sure I had it correct. The minute the plane left the ground I knew I was in trouble as the rear of the plane would not lift up when I tried to level out and when I attempted the first turn the plane flipped upside down. I was able to get it right way up but on the next turn it flipped and then nosedived into the ground. Upon checking the wreckage, thinking the batteries had moved on take off the front battery was destroyed which started a grass fire, but the rear battery was found to still be attached to the plywood and still held tightly in place by the battery strap. both myself and my friend have many many years flying experience and neither of us could work out what the problem was except that the cog was too far back, but it was set at 90mm like everyone on here is recommending

Sorry to hear that, as this A-10 when it's right, is the smoothest flying EDF I've ever seen and probably the easiest plane to fly in my fleet. I concur with GliderGuy that we'll need some more info and even then may be difficult to diagnose the problem. Does sound like you were tail heavy, but I can absolutely guarantee you that if you were at 90mm, that 's this aircrafts sweet spot IMO. I actually fly mine at more like 95mm. I always balance it inverted with gear down using the unfortunately discontinued Great Planes CG Balancing tool, which has never let me down.

I do have one thought, and there may be some other control surface issues that are probably impossible to determine now (like maybe even a gyro correcting in the wrong direction??). I'm wondering if your elevator neutral position was set with too much up elevator. Keep in mind that this is one of the few EDF's that the twin exhaust thrust goes DIRECTLY over the elevators and those elevator stabs are only 8" behind the end of the exhaust nozzles. You will notice in static testing and when holding it that when you have anything over 50% throttle and input up elevator, the thrust pushes hard down on those elevators and you can even hear a major difference in the sound of the air going over the surfaces. So any up elevator will be magnified by increased throttle input. Down elevator, on the other hand, only is affected by air speed. I've notice with this bird that at full throttle, the elevators are extremely responsive to up elevator input for that reason, and less responsive (actually more like most aircraft) to down elevator input.

Long explanation made short, if you have too much up elevator trim for neutral, you will probably get exaggerated down force on the horizontal stab. Especially on take-off and climbing when you are most likely at/near full throttle, the additional up elevator you give for take-off will be exaggerated and relaxing to neutral if it's still too far up will exacerbate the condition. As you're going into a turn, you're not likely to use down elevator (usually you're using a little up to stay at the same altitude) and that too much trim along with the typical slight up elevator input may continue to push the tail down and most likely cause the plane to over rotate (and that's assuming each elevator is centered the same-any difference would add to the problem).

Anyway, I'm probably way out in left field on this one, but just a thought. Hope you get it worked out as it's a shame you were not able to experience the joy of flying this aircraft and unfortunately probably are left with a real bad taste in your mouth for it. Can't blame you for that, but if you can, get her fixed up and get back in the saddle!

[GliderGuy]

Hi Bazza, Please provide more pre-crash data.

- ***Exact method of CG measurement***(wheels down, wheels up, finger method, upside down, right side up, or details of a more precise method)
- Battery brand and size for weight info
- Exact details of battery locations before flight
- Any mods done? If so…what?
- Flaps down or up
- Control set-up…any mixing of flap-elevator
- Were you on high rate or low rate?
- Position of neutral elevator setting was what?
- What is your EDF and large EDF flight experience?
- Did you perform a range check and verify correctness of movement?
- Radio gear brand/model and location/any satellites?
- etc….

Sorry for your loss, but more data is needed because otherwise all the analysis can be is, “ Yep…you crashed.”

It does “seem” like a tail heavy condition, but don’t rule out radio or control set-up issues or pilot over controlling (to be blunt-pilots do cause crashes…not fun to state and not meant to be a slap in the face…but pilot experience can’t be ruled out with the info provided so far). I flew the A-10 as my first EDF after flying smaller/slower prop trainers and after having some stick time on the FL P-38. I will admit that the maiden wasn't pretty, and I busted the nose gear by getting into the dreaded crow hop on landing. Just saying.....gotta look at all possibilities since you asked.

-GG

[Bazza]

OK something is definitely wrong, I maidened my plane the other day and I set the Cof G at 90mm exactly and even had a friend double check to make sure I had it correct. The minute the plane left the ground I knew I was in trouble as the rear of the plane would not lift up when I tried to level out and when I attempted the first turn the plane flipped upside down. I was able to get it right way up but on the next turn it flipped and then nosedived into the ground. Upon checking the wreckage, thinking the batteries had moved on take off the front battery was destroyed which started a grass fire, but the rear battery was found to still be attached to the plywood and still held tightly in place by the battery strap. both myself and my friend have many many years flying experience and neither of us could work out what the problem was except that the cog was too far back, but it was set at 90mm like everyone on here is recommending

[TScott]

That's odd. Something's "off" on your plane. Did the nacelles seat perfectly flush? Sounds almost like the front end of the nacelle assembly is raised a bit.

After I checked out the retract and repaired a door, I checked the nacelle and verified it is flush on all sides.

[themudduck]

I’m going to check it again before my next flight. For now, I have a nose gear retract to replace.

I agree, you're probably nose heavy. This model (and the nose gear) does much better with the CG moved back.

[xviper]

That's odd. Something's "off" on your plane. Did the nacelles seat perfectly flush? Sounds almost like the front end of the nacelle assembly is raised a bit.

[TScott]

Where is your CG? If at the manual recommended 78mm, this is too nose heavy. It flies much better at 86-90mm.

I’m going to check it again before my next flight. For now, I have a nose gear retract to replace.