Official Freewing Twin 80mm/90mm A-10 Thunderbolt II Thread

[xviper]

Tim, I have no doubt that what you observed is factual. I'm not surprised that you saw a distinct improvement in performance. I have seen this myself with similar upgrades in other planes (ie, outrunner to inrunner). As you have already seen, an increase in thrust doesn't necessarily translate into more top speed. What is very apparent is what I call an increase in "grunt". That is to say, with the inrunners, the power delivery is more push for better vertical performance and better sudden acceleration. It's like describing HP and torque in cars. It's torque that gets things going. It's HP that gets more speed. Here, we're talking torque.
The A-10 is one of my older jets and I've been satisfied with the stock performance, but admittedly, I'm leaning towards getting some high performance inrunners myself just to help this old jet "keep up" with some of my other newer EDF's.
It's complicated for me to get the SMCs delivered to me in Canada, so Iook forward to your "in person" impressions of how they work for you in this plane. I know several flyers here swear by the SMCs and in those people, I trust greatly.

[Evan D]

I think the stock system is a very well matched set up to what expect from a scale A-10. That said the 90mm to me looks odd and I don't think it needs the thrust. Upgrading to the better 80mm's to me is a great choice especially if you are at higher altitudes. As noted good batteries can also make a huge difference.

[TGoelzer]

You are right about the cost. To go to 90mm, with new nacelles, EDFs, ESCs, the cost would be (IMO) astronomical - another $500.00+ to get it all done. However, the increase in thrust would also be an eye popper. The stock outrunner 80mm has a posted static thrust of ~2.9kg. The upgrade Inrunner 80mm - 3.0 - 3.1kg, so a marginal increase. Going to the 90mm would give you about 4.0kg, so another kg X 2 of static thrust, but at a huge cost.

Another thought. When you're in the market for new batteries, consider getting something that has a higher "real world" load tested "C". Those Spektrums advertised at 50C are likely only giving a real world output of just over 15C. (This is based upon an extrapolation of real world load tests done on Spektrum 100C, 6s LiPos giving only 25C.) EDFs tend to give their best performance with batteries that can crank out genuine C of 35 to 40C. The ones that can do that are the ChinaHobbyLine 65C (real 35C) or the SMC flight batteries 40C (real 35C). I only use these 2 as examples. There are many other brands that give the desired C ratings that work well in jets. Spektrum just isn't one of them.
My A-10 is stock and when I went from my Gens Ace 50C Lipos to my CHL 65C, the plane became a rocket ship. If you're going to get new batteries anyway, this may be an even cheaper option over the inrunner EDFs.

Actaully, I was just looking at the SMC batteries to funny.

I do agree with your response. However from the information I gathered about the 90mm upgrade is disappointing. Reading other's experience with the 90's is that, it was dismal upgrade. Performance was minimal at best. Flight times shortened. And lastly the price!

In my test, I used the exact two batteries. I fully charged them at the field for the 1st flight. Let them cool down and then charged them again while I did the edf swap. There was roughly a two hour window between flights.

The gain was seen with the same batteries. So the C rating is not a factor. But I will definitely agree that a better C rating would increase the performance of both (outrunner & inrunner). However I believe the overall results between the two would be the same.

Guess I will buy the SMC and get back to you after I have a chance to test it again. The motor swap takes 10 mins per side. So I can do it again. LOL

Thanks for your response.

Tim

[xviper]

You are right about the cost. To go to 90mm, with new nacelles, EDFs, ESCs, the cost would be (IMO) astronomical - another $500.00+ to get it all done. However, the increase in thrust would also be an eye popper. The stock outrunner 80mm has a posted static thrust of ~2.9kg. The upgrade Inrunner 80mm - 3.0 - 3.1kg, so a marginal increase. Going to the 90mm would give you about 4.0kg, so another kg X 2 of static thrust, but at a huge cost.

Another thought. When you're in the market for new batteries, consider getting something that has a higher "real world" load tested "C". Those Spektrums advertised at 50C are likely only giving a real world output of just over 15C. (This is based upon an extrapolation of real world load tests done on Spektrum 100C, 6s LiPos giving only 25C.) EDFs tend to give their best performance with batteries that can crank out genuine C of 35 to 40C. The ones that can do that are the ChinaHobbyLine 65C (real 35C) or the SMC flight batteries 40C (real 35C). I only use these 2 as examples. There are many other brands that give the desired C ratings that work well in jets. Spektrum just isn't one of them.
My A-10 is stock and when I went from my Gens Ace 50C Lipos to my CHL 65C, the plane became a rocket ship. If you're going to get new batteries anyway, this may be an even cheaper option over the inrunner EDFs.

[Elbee]

This past weekend at my local field I decided to fly my 1st flight with the original outrunner edf's. Then replace the motors with the inrunner edf's for a back to back comparison...Hope this helps someone that may be looking to upgrade their A-10.Tim

TG, welcome to Hobby Squawk! Thank you for posting your results and taking the time to do the comparison in the same afternoon. A great review and a very timely topic. Best, LB

[TGoelzer]

So all you guys looking to upgrade your EDF's. I did not want to spend the money on the 90mm upgrade (roughly $454.00) So I decided to install the 80mm inrunner's from the Mig 29 ($168.00 total).

This past weekend at my local field I decided to fly my 1st flight with the original outrunner edf's. Then replace the motors with the inrunner edf's for a back to back comparison. I also had three members from my field, watch both flights to give me their thoughts (wanted verification that I wasn't making anything up in my mind).

Hands down the inrunner's are much better! Really didn't see much of a difference during take off. nor did I see a huge gain in overall speed. However the vertical was huge!!!! The plane climbed and climbed and climbed! Plane seemed to fly better. Not as sluggish or cumbersome.

Battery: I was running two Specktrum 5000mah 50C 6S batteries. Flew the 1st flight (old edf's) 3:00 mins flight came down at 3.81 per cells. 2nd flight (new edf's) 3:00 flight time, came down with 3:84 per cells. So the in-runners are not much of an improvement thus far as far as flight times.

Didn't think about putting a GPS unit in, too see if the overall top speed increased. Visually we all agreed it was slightly faster, but how much???

Overall, I think this is a better and cheaper option than the 90mm upgrade.


Hope this helps someone that may be looking to upgrade their A-10.

Tim

[MikeT]

Direct from SMC Racing: www.smc-racing.com
Make sure you select the "True Spec V2 Flight packs". Those are fairly accurate on what the actual C is (and don't believe anyone who has a 100C pack unless it weighs about 50 pounds). I've tested about 20 different brands and the SMC's are the best, at least for me (and those are all "swimming with the fishes" now, what a huge waste of money). All others actual C is more like 25%-40% of their advertised C.

His other batteries are more for the car guys and they have inflated C ratings, only because he has to compete with other manufacturers that all exaggerate the C and he knows that the flight guys don't get suckered in as much on "advertised" C. So don't think because it's ONLY 40C that it's not as good as some others claiming 50-100C. For 6S, the 4500, 5300 and 6200's are top notch. Also check out the weight of these "graphene" batteries, much lighter than other high C batteries. Somewhere on RC Groups there is also a complete analysis done on something like 50 batteries for aircraft and the SMC 6200 is at the top for weight, actual tested C, individual cell amps and price. If you have any questions about the packs, send an e-mail to the owner, Danny Sullivan, and he'll get back to you immediately, he's very customer service oriented.

Interesting read.

Thanks
Mike

[Elbee]

Hugh Wiedman You are a fountain of sage wisdom and truth. Thank you for all that you do, Sir. Best, LB

[Hugh Wiedman]

Where do you get the SMC's from?

Direct from SMC Racing: www.smc-racing.com
Make sure you select the "True Spec V2 Flight packs". Those are fairly accurate on what the actual C is (and don't believe anyone who has a 100C pack unless it weighs about 50 pounds). I've tested about 20 different brands and the SMC's are the best, at least for me (and those are all "swimming with the fishes" now, what a huge waste of money). All others actual C is more like 25%-40% of their advertised C.

His other batteries are more for the car guys and they have inflated C ratings, only because he has to compete with other manufacturers that all exaggerate the C and he knows that the flight guys don't get suckered in as much on "advertised" C. So don't think because it's ONLY 40C that it's not as good as some others claiming 50-100C. For 6S, the 4500, 5300 and 6200's are top notch. Also check out the weight of these "graphene" batteries, much lighter than other high C batteries. Somewhere on RC Groups there is also a complete analysis done on something like 50 batteries for aircraft and the SMC 6200 is at the top for weight, actual tested C, individual cell amps and price. If you have any questions about the packs, send an e-mail to the owner, Danny Sullivan, and he'll get back to you immediately, he's very customer service oriented.

[Coconut]

Where do you get the SMC's from?

[Hugh Wiedman]

How long do you fly with 2x6000mAh, 50C Admiral PRO battery?

I used to use the Admiral Pro 50C and got 5 minutes of fairly aggressive flight time. Those batteries are OK, but not as good as the SMC 6200 40C batteries I now use in virtually everything. They are about 25 gr less in weight and have twice the actual discharge rate (C). The Admirals actual C is closer to 17C while the SMC's are around 38C. With that said, I get over 5 minutes on the SMC's if I push it hard (upgraded the fans to the 9 blade 3658-1920Kv inrunners that were in my Mig 29), and if I fly it more scale like, 6-7 minutes.

I'm also balanced about 15-20mm further aft than the manual CG. With the stock outrunners and the Admirals, I suggest you initially set your timer at 4:00 and adjust from there depending on your flying style.

[RAFALR30]

How long do you fly with 2x6000mAh, 50C Admiral PRO battery?

[Elbee]

FWIW I've found this compendium of topics on the A-10 on another forum pretty useful...https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...II-tips-tweaks-Dave

AD, Wow, now that's what I'm talkin' about. Thank you for posting this and what great information it is. Well done, Sir. Best, LB

[ATCDave1]

FWIW I've found this compendium of topics on the A-10 on another forum pretty useful...

https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...II-tips-tweaks

-Dave

[RAFALR30]

I've found that Tamiya Acrylic XF-19 Sky Gray, has worked very well for me.

LON thanks a lot for the information 👍

[Lon]

Does anyone know what paint number (FS number) Freewing uses to paint the A-10?
I have a few scratches and would like to paint the model.

I've found that Tamiya Acrylic XF-19 Sky Gray, has worked very well for me.

[Twowingtj]

Finally decided to put the MIG-29 inrunner fans in the A-10. Looking forward to the longer flight times.

I've been flying this bird since the first batch in the pre-order. It's earned a new set of fans.

It's still my favorite Freewing EDF.

[Elbee]

Does anyone know what paint number (FS number) Freewing uses to paint the A-10?
I have a few scratches and would like to paint the model.

R3, I don't have the post number, however, if you'll look at the very early pages of this Official Thread, I guarantee you'll find a Home Depot paint number/picture and quite possibly the FS numbers, as well. Best, LB

[RAFALR30]

Does anyone know what paint number (FS number) Freewing uses to paint the A-10?
I have a few scratches and would like to paint the model.

[jasmith41]

"wookin' pa nub in all da wong paces..."