Official Freewing 80mm Avanti S Sport Jet Thread

[Vintage Racer]

Thunderstorms tomorrow in Sacramento, California....WTF over?

[Carlbrainiac]

Hey guys. So I have the original yellow Avanti with 12 blade fan and out runner. I have just ordered the new in runner complete with the 12 blade fan. I'm assuming the existing esc will be fine as still 100 amp but will I have to do any reprogramming of the esc to better suit the in runner? Or will all the settings remain exactly the same?

[sneaky_snoeper]

So i am gonna pick up my first Freewing Jet this Tuesday, yes the Avanti! But i am thinking of costumizing it. So i want to get zome inspiration! Please show me your constum painted Avanti’s! 😄 thanks alot!

[sneaky_snoeper]

Avanti facelift!!!

Wow dude! That looks amazing! Where did you get that nice nose light from?

[VoodooBlade]

Avanti is quite popular at our field here.

[t01ga]

Wow dude! That looks amazing! Where did you get that nice nose light from?

Thanks buddy, appreciate that. The LED is a standard Motion RC white led you get in LED packs and the lens is a custom mod I have made from the tip of a light bulb. More info and pic on post #2760.

[sneaky_snoeper]

Thanks buddy, appreciate that. The LED is a standard Motion RC white led you get in LED packs and the lens is a custom mod I have made from the tip of a light bulb. More info and pic on post #2760.

Thanks dude! Motion should sell a nose with a clear piece of plastic in the front and clear space for a big LED 😄

[Hugh Wiedman]

Avanti is quite popular at our field here.

Quite Popular? Looks like your field has cornered the market!

[Beeg]

Quite Popular? Looks like your field has cornered the market!

Right!~

[AceMigKiller]

Ladies, Gentlemen, Avantis,

Today I received the new Inrunner 80mm 9-blade to replace my original Outrunner 12-blade setup. After some testing/comparison both in the air and on the ground, I'm excited to share my results!

First, it must be stated that the original 12-blade outrunner setup on the Avanti is no slouch.
Very respectable power levels on the stock setup. More than enough to push it through extended vertical manuevers and an honest over 100mph setup on 6s.
What more could you want??

How about a higher thrust, more efficient setup running all the same stuff, but nets you a bunch more flight time? I'm glad I have your attention.

Just so we're clear, the setup I've elected to upgrade to is the new 9-blade 1920kv Inrunner system that comes stock with planes like the T-33 (link below).

https://www.motionrc.com/products/freewing-80mm-9-blade-edf-power-system-w-3658-1920kv-inrunner-motor

Swapping it over was as simple as 1.)unbolting the hatch cover, 2.)removing the four mounting screws on the EDF unit, 3.)pulling the bullet connectors from the Motor/ESC, then 4.)reverse-order to drop in the new EDF.

For good measure and comparison, I did some static run-ups on the ground. All tests were performed with a RoaringTop 35c 6s 5000 (freshly charged between runs, of course) and measurements taken after 30 seconds sustained at full power.
Here's the breakdown of the results:

--- 12-Blade Outrunner ---
2508 Watts at 112.5 Amps with 22.29 Volts under load.

--- 9-Blade Inrunner ---
2607 Watts at 110.2 Amps with 23.65 Volts under load.

What was not scientifically measureable was the amount of thrust coming out the back.
Using my "calibrated hands" and the "point it straight up and go full throttle" test, I can assure you that the 9-blade Inrunner setup has more thrust... like, *alot* more thrust!
This of course leads to a faster top-end speed and better vertical performance. If you take all this extra power and continue flying the way you're used to, that translates to more flight time!
Using the same 6s 5000 35c packs, I was able to add a solid :40 seconds to my timer, with all the benefits of the higher thrust setup.

So the big question is this --- Is it worth the $75.99 for the upgrade?
Yes. At least in my opinion. (And Pikachu, my Avanti's Chief Pilot)
More thrust per watt, easier on your batteries, and the potential for more flight time.
Until power system and battery technology improves, this is probably the best "bang for the buck" upgrade you can do if you have the older outrunner setup in your Avanti.

[Hugh Wiedman]

AceMigKiller I've found similar results in comparing an inrunner to the outrunner. One more thing to note: The inrunner will produce even more thrust at top end with a higher C battery than the RT 35C. For example, the upgraded 4068-1835 KV inrunner I put in my 90 mm F-16 and the 2-70 mm 1850 Kv inrunners in the SU-30 put out 230 more watts with a RT 5500 70C battery versus the RT 6250 35C battery. But the typical stock outrunner in the F-4 (3748-1750 Kv) and the base grey F-18 (not the new upgraded inrunner in the BA version) show virtually the same watts drawn on the RT 70C battery and the RT 35C battery (which is actually 25g lighter). Therefore, I've drawn the conclusion, whether right or wrong, than an inrunner benefits more from a higher C battery than an outrunner does.

If you have a RT 70C battery, try the same test on your new inrunner vs the RT 35C battery. The trade-off is of course with the 2 RT batteries, an extra 750 mah and less weight of 25 gr with the 6250 vs the 5500. So far, I have opted for the additional time and less weight on the F-4, F16 and F-18, but the SU-30 is fairly heavy and really likes the 70C batteries to get it's fat arse off the grass. For my Avanti, which has a 9 blade 3658-1857 Kv inrunner, I still use the higher mah battery which gives me over 5 minutes of flight time because I really don't need the 7-10% additional thrust on take-off that a 70C battery would give me. Of course we all know that the actual C rating is no where near the stated C. On my IR meter, the 70 C is more likely a 35-40C and the 35 C is more like a 27-28C. The Admiral 50C's are more like 25C.

[AceMigKiller]

Definitely no counters there.
A higher C-rated battery from a reputable brand like RoaringTop will have the edge over a lower rated pack.

As you mentioned, we each balance the trade-offs of having that higher rated pack, which comes with slightly more weight and thrust, vs. slightly less top end but higher capacity and lighter weight packs.

Regardless of which way you go, you're gonna have a blast flying this thing around on the newer setup!

Cheers,
Vic

[Mach9]

AceMigKiller Can you tell a difference in the sound? I really like the 12 blade sound.

[AceMigKiller]

Honestly, the 9-blade sounds more turbine like.
All that extra thrust coming out the back gives it that *whoosh*.

[Hugh Wiedman]

Mach9 I'm with you. For some reason, I like the sound of a 12 blade better, more of a whoosh, where the 9 blade seems more like a whine, but that's just my perception. The 12 blades in my Stinger 90, the upgraded 12 blade inrunner in my F-16 and the 2 12 blade inrunners in my SU-30 seem to have more of a whoosh (and to me more like a jet), where the 9 blades in my Avanti, 2-F4's and my F-18 seem to have a slight whine. Doesn't seem to make a difference whether their outrunners or inrunners either. But that's just me and maybe I'm a little tone deaf from all the ammo rounds I've shot over the years.

[sneaky_snoeper]

Hello all,

i maidened the Avanti S yesterday and what a great flyer! Love her alot! I only got one problem.

When I come out of a bank the plane keeps rolling to that side, really slowly but still. It seems that my servo doesnt center when i let go of my aileron stick?! Does anyone have experienced the same problem or does anyone an idea what it could be?

thanks in advance!

[Hugh Wiedman]

sneaky_snoeper haven't had that happen to me but sounds very annoying and not quite right. Couple of questions:

1) Are both the aileron and the rudder servo's secured in tightly with no movement? Had something similar with a loose elevator servo in the F-4 (a well documented issue for many) that the pitch constantly changed because of a loose elevator servo.
2) On the bench, when you test the aileron servo movement up and down, does each surface return to neutral even if you apply slight pressure with your hand to each surface (kind of simulating the resistance/pressure it gets in the air)?
3) Are you using a gyro with any heading gain programmed in?
4) Were you able to trim all 3 axis (R/P/Y) so the jet flies perfectly level and straight hands off? For me, sometimes the hardest surface to trim correctly (and it also seldom needs it) is the rudder unless you trim it when the jet is coming directly at you or directly away from you. A slightly off rudder could cause it to roll slightly eventually, but you should also notice this as you fly hands off up or down the runway.

So I understand what's happening, let's say you're flying a counterclockwise pattern, heading downwind and the jet is perfectly level hands off, then you get to the end of the downwind, give it slight roll with left aileron to get into a say 30-40 degree bank, return the aileron sticks to neutral and simultaneously pull some up elevator to initiate the turn and keep the jet altitude level. You complete the 180 degree turn and now give it right aileron input to level the jet and ease off the elevator back to neutral as well (or you may need some up or down elevator depending on the attitude you were at in the turn) and are now directly into the wind coming back along the runway. At this point after you level the jet from the roll and the ailerons are back at neutral, that's when it continues to roll? In the same left roll direction after you have leveled it? What if you do a clockwise pattern, roll right does it continue to roll right after finishing the turn and leveling the jet?

It does sound like one of the servo's or surfaces are loose or not returning to neutral. You should be able to test this on the bench.

Hope you solve the mystery.

[sneaky_snoeper]

sneaky_snoeper haven't had that happen to me but sounds very annoying and not quite right. Couple of questions:

1) Are both the aileron and the rudder servo's secured in tightly with no movement? Had something similar with a loose elevator servo in the F-4 (a well documented issue for many) that the pitch constantly changed because of a loose elevator servo.
2) On the bench, when you test the aileron servo movement up and down, does each surface return to neutral even if you apply slight pressure with your hand to each surface (kind of simulating the resistance/pressure it gets in the air)?
3) Are you using a gyro with any heading gain programmed in?
4) Were you able to trim all 3 axis (R/P/Y) so the jet flies perfectly level and straight hands off? For me, sometimes the hardest surface to trim correctly (and it also seldom needs it) is the rudder unless you trim it when the jet is coming directly at you or directly away from you. A slightly off rudder could cause it to roll slightly eventually, but you should also notice this as you fly hands off up or down the runway.

So I understand what's happening, let's say you're flying a counterclockwise pattern, heading downwind and the jet is perfectly level hands off, then you get to the end of the downwind, give it slight roll with left aileron to get into a say 30-40 degree bank, return the aileron sticks to neutral and simultaneously pull some up elevator to initiate the turn and keep the jet altitude level. You complete the 180 degree turn and now give it right aileron input to level the jet and ease off the elevator back to neutral as well (or you may need some up or down elevator depending on the attitude you were at in the turn) and are now directly into the wind coming back along the runway. At this point after you level the jet from the roll and the ailerons are back at neutral, that's when it continues to roll? In the same left roll direction after you have leveled it? What if you do a clockwise pattern, roll right does it continue to roll right after finishing the turn and leveling the jet?

It does sound like one of the servo's or surfaces are loose or not returning to neutral. You should be able to test this on the bench.

Hope you solve the mystery.

1) yes they are all secured well.
2) i have a feeling that 1 of the servo's doesnt go back to neutral the tinyest bit tho. havent tried the thing with force on it yet.
3) no gyro
4) yes

last one: exactly the case. it does it in both roll directions.

[Hugh Wiedman]

sneaky_snoeper now that is both annoying and frustrating. Must be that one servo not re-centering. May have to swap out with a new servo, these are not the highest quality which is why they are relatively cheap, but we have enough to deal with when flying without uncalled for rolls! If this is relatively new you may be able to speak with Motion and open up a ticket and have them send you a replacement servo, they've always been super good with me on anything, but honestly haven't had many problems for them to fix.

[AceMigKiller]

That does sound annoying. Sorry to hear about it.
Also, maybe check for slop in the hardware itself (control horns, connecting links, etc.) both coming off the servo and the associated control surfaces.

This is the first I've heard of this type of anomaly in the Avanti, but I bet we can get to the bottom of it.