Official FlightLine RC 1600mm Spitfire Mk. IX Thread

[Low ‘n Slow]

Vandoo,

I am also a newbie to RC flying. Not new to aviation however. Spent 50 years flying airplanes all around the world. However, none of that is that helpful when it comes to RC. Repeat, almost none of it.... Like you, I am very interested in warbirds, especially the P-51, Spitfire and the Corsair. I have several of each, BUT, I am not going to fly any of them until I get very proficient with my trainer, the Apprentice. I bought a used Apprentice and then found another one so if and WHEN I crash it, I will have some replacement parts. After I get proficient with the Apprentice, I will move up to something else with tricycle gear. My first warbird maybe my ParkZone T-28 that I also bought used. Almost everything I own with the RC world have been used aircraft, so WHEN I crash it I won’t feel as bad. I will still feel terrible but maybe not as much. I crashed my recent purchase and felt depressed the whole day. Feeling depressed now just thinking about it. A good friend of mine says that these planes all “have a number”.... meaning that more than likely, your going to crash.

So, I will practice with my RealFlight 9 simulator and will fly the Apprentice until I feel really comfortable and no longer need my instructor. Then, I will probably try the PZ T-28 with help from the RC guys at the field. I WILL some day fly my warbirds, just NOT today, NOT now until I can really get used to the sticks and get good enough.

I was at the RC field before the virus hit and I watched a couple of very experienced RC pilots crash. One on takeoff with his P-51 ( hard left due to th P-Factor) and one on landing (got too slow and it stalled).....so, I will continue to buy used airplanes and try to get over the fact that crashing may be part of this hobby. I hate the idea of crashing, but its a reality. I’m going to do everything I can to try and prevent a crash, Simulator, lessons, high wing trainer etc

Just my 2C from a beginner,

Paul

[nuts-n-volts]

L'nS, you're on the right track. Everyone is different, but we all have a learning curve. Some things help with some and different with others.

I will say this in agreement... get an inexpensive high-wing trainer and a simulator to start. The sim is invaluable for learning quickly. But the plane is real world and does things the sim won't! Like anything in life, practice, practice, practice. Fly that trainer till the wings fall off. Then get a low wing trainer and fly it's wings off.

And, here's a hint for you guys... Stand with your feet parallel with the runway. Don't turn with the plane. Always keep the flight in the field in front of you. When the plane comes toward you, remember this, push the stick (aileron or rudder) toward the low wing. If you error past neutral, push the stick to the low wing. When the plane is going away from you, fly it normally. You will learn way quicker if you face off with the plane.

[Grossman56]

There are so many different ways of looking at overcoming the obstacles to getting to pilot proficiency and so apply everything that is passed on to you and see how it works with your brain. People crash because of P factor, so you need to remember to bend the throttle over to the right when increasing speed. People crash because they try to stall the airplane into landing, nope, not with a warbird! I know from experience that most, if not all of the trainers can be landed without any power, but if you get in the habit, you'll have to get out of it when you move up to more advanced airplanes. Personally, I have my timer set so that if the throttle is decrease below 25%, the radio will chirp. That chirp is my initial landing speed and I'll vary up or down a click or two , depending on how fast the plane is losing altitude. I do this with every airplane, even my Pandoras, which can be landed without any throttle. For instance, I'll listen for the chirp and move the throttle one click forward, that's my base throttle position for landing a Pandora which happens to be the exact same position as my 1600 mm Spitfire. With the RV-8, its at the chirp itself as this airplane had a ton of lift.
Hope this helps, at least gives you food for thought, remember use the throttle for descent. I've never stalled a warbird since Pilot Ryan gave me that advice several years ago at Nefi.

Grossman56

[Low ‘n Slow]

NutsnVolts, Grossman56,

Great information. I will practice standing perpendicular to the runway with my feet. I will have to get a radio that chirps when you get to a certain throttle position. I am using the DX6 (silver) but would like a used DX8, or 9....

Watched two more crashes this morning. A Spitfire came in too hot and overran the runway and a aerobatic plane landed and hit the nose hard and busted out the prop and nose cowling.

I enjoy watching and learning. Never too old to learn something new...

Thank you for your experience and expertise.

Psul

[Grossman56]

The best way to learn! From others unfortunate mistakes. When I took the flight course from Dave Scott, I found I learned as much watching the other students fly as I did when it was my turn.

Grossman56

[Hugh Wiedman]

NutsnVolts, Grossman56,

Great information. I will practice standing perpendicular to the runway with my feet. I will have to get a radio that chirps when you get to a certain throttle position. I am using the DX6 (silver) but would like a used DX8, or 9....

Watched two more crashes this morning. A Spitfire came in too hot and overran the runway and a aerobatic plane landed and hit the nose hard and busted out the prop and nose cowling.

I enjoy watching and learning. Never too old to learn something new...

Thank you for your experience and expertise.

Psul

Low ‘n Slow , NutsnVolts & Grossman56 give you great advice. I do think your DX6 will "tell" you when you get to a certain throttle position. Although I now use a DX9, my black DX6 was able to do it by going into the timer and 1) set timer 1 to Count Down, then whatever time you want, and set Over to the point you want it to "tell" you something, say 25%. Then go to the bottom right where it says NEXT. This page gives voice alerts, or tone alerts where ever you want (every minute/1 minute/30/etc.). Set what alerts you want, then again go to the bottom right under NEXT and it shows you a screen called Timer Control Alerts. There you can set either voice or tone at Timer Start/Timer Stop/Timer reset. Each has his own way, but what I do is set the Timer Stop to Voice (and the others to tone). The result is, that when the throttle gets to 25% (or whatever value you set in screen one), the transmitter says "Timer Stopped". You can set a tone, but for me there's too many tones and when it says "Timer Stopped" I know for sure I am at 25% throttle without having to look down.

I take this even one step further. For most of my EDF's, I'll set Timer 1 to something like 35% throttle (although each is slightly different), which is my throttle position upon entering my glide path for landing so the first time it says "Timer Stopped", I know I'm at a throttle position that gives me a good glide path. Then I set Timer 2 (and your DX6 can have 2 timers) to say "Timer Stopped" when the throttle is at say 10-15%, which is the throttle position I'll go to when I'm about 2-3 feet off the runway. Now the jet/plane will slow down from there, allowing me to keep it just above the runway as I get it into the best high alpha position I want. At least that's my theory. Unfortunately, every Jet/Warbird/etc. is different. I do this with every plane I have because with my "meat-hooks" for hands, I'm never sure where the throttle is without looking, so this allows me to keep my eyes focused on the plane and let the transmitter tell me where I'm at. As I said, every plane is somewhat different. The EDF's are somewhere between 30-40% on glide path and 10-20% on final landing. My prop warbirds are much different. The 1600mm Corsair I set to 40% throttle. This gives me not only the glide path, but I take it all the way there at that position until the 2 mains touch down, then drop the throttle. The Spitfire does it at 25%, the 1700mm P-51 works for me at 30%. I even use it with my fleet of 60" Extreme Flight 3D planes, even though they will land like a feather if you cut the throttle in air, but I like to have a 2 point landing instead of a 3 point laydown.

Give it a try. You'll have to play around a little with the % value you pick in the Timer because you will notice on the main screen that as you reduce throttle assuming you have a ratchet setting (as opposed to smooth), each ratchet point may change the throttle position several points. For example, with the P-51 wanting it to tell me when I get to about 30%, one ratchet point is 38%, next down is 31%, then 24%. If I set it to 30% in the timer, it won't say "Timer Stopped" until I get to the 24% point. That's too low for me. So I actually set it at 33-34%, so it tells me when I change from 38% down to 31%. Of course if you like a smooth throttle with no ratchet, set the Timer to what you need.

[AirHead]

Hello, I am a 50 year old newbie at this, both military and aviation enthusiast. This Spitfire is rated at "intermediate" skill. I have no interest in buying a small starter plane only to outgrow it after a couple of months. If I am being very, very careful, is it possible to learn the basics on this platform?

Hello Vandoo/ Vingt Deux/ 22
You have talked about the Spitfire as a possible Warbird to fly. The Spit has "narrow track" landing gear and has a slight knack to landing/ ground handling; same with the ME109. Two of my first Warbirds were the Mitsubishi A6M Zero and the P47 Thunderbolt. They were suggested because they both have fairly wide-track landing gear, which give them more stability when landing. The Zero is a stable flyer and it comes in different sizes. The Flightline Bearcat and the Flightline Hawker Sea Fury also have decently spaced landing gear as well...

[steven gubala]

To Hugh Wiedman, you just gave me some good pointer 's on setting the timer for my % on decent for landing. I will give it a try....

[paladin]

low N slow, I have been flying warbirds for almost 50 years, I've had at least one trainer in every one of this years. all my kids wanted to try it, only one my son flys with me (better than I), but they all tried it. then their friends tried it. i used to bring the cub to the club flyinn and give rides to the people from the crowd with it. not to mention the people that come to the field to watch. so there is always a use for a trainer (excuse to fly it), my trainer is 20years old, my cub is almost 30.

T-28 is an excellent choice for first low wing, you have the added advantage of electrics foamies being light enough to power through departure stalls, that's the takeoff and turn left you mentioned. or the down wind turn stall you mentioned (which is caused by to much bank and elevator for the speed of the plane, usually when the pilot realizes he's going to miss the center of the runway and try's to tighten up the turn.

Joe

[Low ‘n Slow]

low N slow, I have been flying warbirds for almost 50 years, I've had at least one trainer in every one of this years. all my kids wanted to try it, only one my son flys with me (better than I), but they all tried it. then their friends tried it. i used to bring the cub to the club flyinn and give rides to the people from the crowd with it. not to mention the people that come to the field to watch. so there is always a use for a trainer (excuse to fly it), my trainer is 20years old, my cub is almost 30.

T-28 is an excellent choice for first low wing, you have the added advantage of electrics foamies being light enough to power through departure stalls, that's the takeoff and turn left you mentioned. or the down wind turn stall you mentioned (which is caused by to much bank and elevator for the speed of the plane, usually when the pilot realizes he's going to miss the center of the runway and try's to tighten up the turn.

Joe

Thank you Joe,

I do have a T-28 and after I have flown the wings off the Apprentice, I will give it a try.

Thank you for your expertise. I wish the virus thing was over and I could meet RC’ers like you who have a tremendous background in RC. I’d like to learn the “right” way and do it safely and learn from guys like you.

Thanks again for your insight.

Paul

[Cchrissyv1]

Hi everyone! I had a question about this warbird and I understand every pilot is different and we all have our own opinions. To give all of you a bit of my background, I have been flying since 2011, but I honestly have really been flying for the past year (I took a few years off before this time last year but it is like riding a bike ). I now have the FlightLine Bearcat, FlightLine FW-190, FMS 1400mm P-40B and an Eflite PT-17. I am extremely comfortable with all of these. I feel I have enough pilot experience with the warbirds but my landings I have been trying to perfect - I either grease it in or I have to go around 2 or 3 times because I am coming in too hot or I am off the runway. I have been debating for my next airplane and this 1600mm Spitty has been on my wishlist along with that beautiful FlightLine Corsair. My club president has the Corsair and he has told me he is still learning how to land it, and he is a very experienced pilot with quite a collection of RC foamies. So I am a bit hesitant on the Corsair at the moment, and not to mention that this warbird is a bit more expensive. I am even hesitant with this 1600mm Spitfire since I do not own such a large airplane, currently. What do you guys think would be better? I am heavily leaning towards the Spitfire, but I also have the smaller version of this Spitfire (1200mm if I remember correctly?) on my wishlist as well. Would I be better off with the smaller Spitfire? My other thought has been that I would get a better bang for my buck with this 1600mm version, so I am extremely undecided at the moment. I do not want to end up with my hard earned money spent on foam that could end up in the trash, although I understand crashing is part of the hobby. I have had my fair share of crashes.

Happy flying!

[Hugh Wiedman]

Cchrissyv1 here's my 2 cents worth, and keep in mind, as you say, everyone has their own preferences so my thoughts here might not be shared by most.

Although I love my 1600mm Corsair and it is such a presence in the air (you will want to get one next), I would recommend to start with the 1600 mm Spitfire. Both are also a small challenge to take-off as they both want to get in the air before you have sufficient air/ground speed which can cause a wing stall, but the Corsair is a little more apt to do that. And both love to go hard left from prop wash at the initial start of the take-off run so you must be rudder conscious. You need to keep the attitude on take-off level or even slightly down angel by 5-10 degrees until you get enough speed, then give it slight up elevator.

Both MUST be landed with a very flat attitude (Corsair more so than the Spitfire), gently easing down on the mains only, don't try to do a 3 pointer. The Spitfire is lighter and floats a little more and I found if you bring it in on it's glide slope at 35% throttle, then reduce it to 25% a few feet off the ground and let it inch down gently to the mains, then you can cut power, it lands great. The Corsair on the other hand is a bit heavier (at least mine is with the added weight of a sound system and 4 coats of urethane) and will drop like a rock if you don't have sufficient speed, causing the retracts to buckle. I must have crushed 4-5 retracts on the Corsair until I learned to land properly, but none with the Spitfire. The reason for that is the Corsair retracts open forward, so any landing pressure is absorbed solely by the retract screw, but the Spitfire fold out, leaving more landing pressure on the retract casing. The Spitty will "survive" a less than perfect landing more often than the Corsair. To land the Corsair (and this is just my preference) I found I need to reduce throttle to 40% on the final turn and glide slope, and LEAVE it at that throttle setting all the way to a nice inch down landing on the mains, then cut the throttle. If you can master the landing technique with both of them, they are both an absolute pleasure to fly, giving 8 minutes or more of aggressive flying on a 5000 mah battery. Both have more than enough power and you rarely need to use full throttle, even on take-off, so both will climb with the best of them. But of course landing and taxing back to the the pits with Aros style maximum flap deflection on the Corsair is really cool looking!

[Evan D]

Get what you would rather have and make it work for you. When someone asks a what should I get question I ask about money or budget. The bigger the plane typically the easier to fly. It's not like we are in these planes. If you can afford it go ahead with whatever you want. Between the 1600 Spit and FU the Spit is much easier to take off, fly and land. Both it and the 1200 are very very good handling planes. I've had a lot of Spitfires over my 50+years of model flying and I'm amazed at how well the two FL planes fly considering they are warbirds, have narrow gear and small stabs. Both the 1200 and 1600 Spits are a dream to fly but as I said bigger is better.

As far as landing timing is everything and by timing holding the plane in the air until its airspeed is just right.

[Grossman56]

yep, as with every warbird, you use your throttle to control descent, no deadsticking !! I set my timer so that the radio chirps at 25% and use that chirp as a reference to where my throttle should be to do a proper descent to land. Also, a great mistake, at least to me, is that most guys don't do a 'gear check' pass. This allows you to lose altitude, check the landing gear (duh), drop the flaps and turn on to a lower, slower base leg, turn over your waypoint to line up with the runway, level off and reduce throttle until the radio chirps, then move the throttle in increments to maintain a proper descent.
The nose can be slightly down, but what you don't want to do is dive at the runway and gain speed, equally, you don't want to pull up on the nose and stall. My first year at Nefi, Pilot Ryan Ramsay said four little words that are etched in my brain.
"Control descent with throttle."
since then, I've never tip stalled and can put them on the runway with confidence. Don't think I've ever done a go around since then either.

Grossman56

[Pauly]

Grossman, thanks for the advice! I just may try and put that chirp in there. Thanks

[Cchrissyv1]

yep, as with every warbird, you use your throttle to control descent, no deadsticking !! I set my timer so that the radio chirps at 25% and use that chirp as a reference to where my throttle should be to do a proper descent to land. Also, a great mistake, at least to me, is that most guys don't do a 'gear check' pass. This allows you to lose altitude, check the landing gear (duh), drop the flaps and turn on to a lower, slower base leg, turn over your waypoint to line up with the runway, level off and reduce throttle until the radio chirps, then move the throttle in increments to maintain a proper descent.
The nose can be slightly down, but what you don't want to do is dive at the runway and gain speed, equally, you don't want to pull up on the nose and stall. My first year at Nefi, Pilot Ryan Ramsay said four little words that are etched in my brain.
"Control descent with throttle."
since then, I've never tip stalled and can put them on the runway with confidence. Don't think I've ever done a go around since then either.

Grossman56

I have always had the chirp in there but I never paid attention to it because it was set for my timer - below 25% the timer would stop. But now that you mentioned that, I have been using the chirp to help when I land. I have heard so many people say control descent with throttle and never paid any attention to it. Lately, I feel I am starting to turn a corner. Just when I thought I knew enough to be a decent pilot, I always end up learning something new every day.

Thanks for the advice, Grossman!

[Grossman56]

Good to hear! Like so many of us (if not all) I can relate. Someone says something and it just opens up a new dimension. It's like the confusion on left and right when the airplane is coming at you. When I'm in the air, I have a few ways to 'unconfuse' an old brain. I'll do the hip swivel toward the direction of flight or I'll remind myself I'm doing a left turn pattern so therefore let is in towards the center of the field and right is outwards. Right turn pattern is the opposite of course.
When taxiing towards me, I use the rule that I push the rudder stick toward the wing that I want to advance.
These are all things someone just happened to mention.
Works for me.

Grossman56

[Evan D]

Push aileron stick towards the low wing. Learned that 50 years ago.

[killickb]

Easy to say for us who at this stage never even think about it -- it is a built in muscle memory no matter which direction the pattern is. But thinking back to my rookie years I never was able to use any of these "hints" because I could never think it thru and act fast enough !

[Hugh Wiedman]

killickb with you on that one. Who would I be kidding thinking I could think fast enough to use these helpful hints (and they are great hints). As I'd be debating exactly what to be doing, the plane would be doing it's own best impression of a lawn dart. Thinkin' ain't one of my strong suits!