Official FlightLine RC 1600mm Spitfire Mk. IX Thread

[Evan D]

Motion has repeatedly said 5.5V max for Free Wing and Flight Line gear. That said others have also said they are ok with 6.0 and still others running 6.0 have reported issues.

[sngecko]

I use a 100A Avian ESC and its BEC is minimum 6V. I don’t see any trouble with my gear, LEDs, or flaps similar to what you’re describing. FWIW.

[paulrkytek]

Hi chaps,

Apologies if this has been posted before and do direct me to the relevant post if so (I scanned and ran a search on the pages but couldn't see anything).

Both I and a club mate have the 1600 Spitfire and both of us suffer the same issue when the flaps are fully deployed, which is to say that one or both flaps seem to close or disengage after a very short period of time.

All setup fine in the radio and the servos aren't moving on the radio's servo monitor.

We're about to install a UBEC to see if this will help, but any thoughts / assistance most welcome indeed.

It's curious that the same thing is happening to both of us independently.

Andy

Do the flaps do this at half and/or full flap and at what speed? If calculators are to be believed the 17g servos( 2.5 to 3kg/cm at 4.8 to 6v) with flaps at 40 deg will hit stall torque around 55 to 60mph.
Assuming you hit full flaps around 40 to 45mph you may just have a couple of dodgy servos ? https://www.radiocontrolinfo.com/inf...ne-calculator/

If you are using separate ubec be careful at what you set the voltage, too much and 6v is probably too much and you risk blowing the leds and landing gear servos so check with Motion R.C. first . 5.5v may well be ok for landing gear servos but leds are a bit more critical and the 80amp Skywalker esc has a 5v bec.

[Elbee]

RRHandy kallend xviper Evan D nuts-n-volts et al,
Gentlemen, It looks to me as if you all have exhausted this topic.

Tally Ho, Messerschmidts--12:00 high--Angels 20...

Respectfully, LB

[kallend]

. . . after the my intro to flying 34 years ago with a 28 year leave of absence , been back into RC for six years . . .

I started in R/C 58 years ago, with no leave of absence. And the fraction of people in your club who agree with you is not relevant. A huge majority of people used to think the Earth is flat - it didn't make it so.

[Evan D]

RR, you posted an opinion about how all of us should fly and included some false information which you seem to keep repeating. Dual rates and other programing functions have no correlation to the use of 72MHz. Dual, and triple rates have been commercially available since the (edit) mid 1970's. Were there radios without D/R when you started in 1988, of course, but there were probably some still on 27 and some using reeds, it's besides the point.

You are a fairly new person to RC both when you initially started and then more recently restarted compared to some posting here, we were there. I find it interesting that you are calling John dismissing and rude when I find your posts that way. We should all get along and when w have information incorrect accept it and move on.

I do have a question, since you feel this way and half of the people where you fly feel that way too, where do you stand on gyros. AS3X and SAFE? I also see you consider yourself an instructor, I assume you are also telling your students not to use D/R and expo. What about gyros, you okay with them using those?

Please don't take any of this as an attack, I find others' opinions interesting.

[RRHandy]

Simply untrue.

Maybe you should get your facts straight before telling others how they should fly.

You are Talking PPM radio's yes, than yes they did have expo and that was the next generation after the my intro to flying 34 years ago with a 28 year leave of absence , been back into RC for six years and had to get new everything. with that said don't need dual rates anymore and you are welcome to you opinion as I'm to mine and dismissing anyone for it is just rude.

[davegee]

Hi chaps,

Apologies if this has been posted before and do direct me to the relevant post if so (I scanned and ran a search on the pages but couldn't see anything).

Both I and a club mate have the 1600 Spitfire and both of us suffer the same issue when the flaps are fully deployed, which is to say that one or both flaps seem to close or disengage after a very short period of time.

All setup fine in the radio and the servos aren't moving on the radio's servo monitor.

We're about to install a UBEC to see if this will help, but any thoughts / assistance most welcome indeed.

It's curious that the same thing is happening to both of us independently.

Andy

For what it is worth, it sounds like the same problem I had with my 1600 mm Spitfire years ago when it was new. It happened on the maiden flight, and one or both, totally uncommanded would lower and then raise again, one side or the other, It was confounding us, almost going out of control and crashing, until we were able to spot what was happening as it flew by.

I contacted MRC tech support about the issue, and they told us that there were a few other customers around the world having the same problem. The fix, for us at least, was to replace both the flap servos. After that, the problem was fixed, and that was 5 years ago. It has flown countless times since without that problem.

Hope this helps. Not saying this is the source of your problems, but it sure sounds similar to what I had going on with mine.

Best of luck!

davegee

[kallend]

Half the people I fly with agree with me when it comes to dual rates, 72mhz did not have the ability to use expo to dial in the sticks to get one to one movement, say as you will it works and not going to be swayed to have a switch do what the new computer radio will do for you, fly by wire in a sense...

Simply untrue.

Maybe you should get your facts straight before telling others how they should fly.

[Evan D]

I had a lot of 72MHz radios with dual rates, expo and mixes, even non computer radios.Yes there were radios with out the bells and whistles but to say all 72 didn’t is just wrong.

Half the people I fly with agree with me when it comes to dual rates, 72mhz did not have the ability to use expo to dial in the sticks to get one to one movement, say as you will it works and not going to be swayed to have a switch do what the new computer radio will do for you, fly by wire in a sense...

[The43rdHammer]

Hi chaps,

Apologies if this has been posted before and do direct me to the relevant post if so (I scanned and ran a search on the pages but couldn't see anything).

Both I and a club mate have the 1600 Spitfire and both of us suffer the same issue when the flaps are fully deployed, which is to say that one or both flaps seem to close or disengage after a very short period of time.

All setup fine in the radio and the servos aren't moving on the radio's servo monitor.

We're about to install a UBEC to see if this will help, but any thoughts / assistance most welcome indeed.

It's curious that the same thing is happening to both of us independently.

Andy

[RRHandy]

Exactly. His entire thesis is bogus. If he wants to be like "real" planes maybe we should have fly-by-wire systems in our models complete with non-linear responses and pilot override.

72MHz? New fangled stuff. My first three radios were on 27MHz.

Half the people I fly with agree with me when it comes to dual rates, 72mhz did not have the ability to use expo to dial in the sticks to get one to one movement, say as you will it works and not going to be swayed to have a switch do what the new computer radio will do for you, fly by wire in a sense...

[kallend]

Huh? What’s the difference between 72 and 2.4 for dual rates and expo.

And just because a “real” plane doesn’t have it we shouldn’t? I guess we should put hydraulics in our planes if the “real” one has it??? I’m with John, I’ll do my planes how I like, thank you.

Exactly. His entire thesis is bogus. If he wants to be like "real" planes maybe we should have fly-by-wire systems in our models complete with non-linear responses and pilot override.

72MHz? New fangled stuff. My first three radios were on 27MHz.

[Hugh Wiedman]

Personally, I sit behind my airplane and move the controls. If I'm getting movement from, say the elevator when moving the ailerons, I'll dial in expo until I don't. 68 year old tendons don't react like 24 year olds. Using my natural movement I want the plane to react properly. Your plane should be set up so you can happily enjoy the flight. People complain that an airplane is difficult to fly or a piece of doo doo when the problem lays in the set up.

Grossman56

I'm right along with you there, sometimes my fingers shake so much I almost drop the TX (a combination of age and outright fear). Expo helps in that case and keeps the aircraft from flying like it has epilepsy. I can also use high rates all of the time along with expos in the 30% range. With minor stick deflection, it acts like it's in low rates, but as I increase deflection, it's like it automatically transitions into mid and high rates. And on my Extreme Flight 60" planes, high rates with deflections in the 70 degree ranges, I'm using what Chris Hansen recommends for expo in the rates: 70% or more. If it's good enough for guys like Jase Dusia, who am I to differ. We had a guy at our field flying a new Avanti, set up by the books. He was not an advanced or even a seasoned EDF pilot, but the Avanti is the perfect EDF trainer to go to. I tried to help him as he flew because he was using just way too much stick movement and completely over-controlling the aircraft. He had 0 expo, and I told him to land and we'd dial down the rates and add in some expo, but wouldn't you know it, he over banked the final turn and spiraled into the ground.

[ICM]

I hear ya Gman. At 76 nothing works quite as well as it did when I was 30. Tis why I use a bit of expo and play the senior tees.

[Grossman56]

Personally, I sit behind my airplane and move the controls. If I'm getting movement from, say the elevator when moving the ailerons, I'll dial in expo until I don't. 68 year old tendons don't react like 24 year olds. Using my natural movement I want the plane to react properly. Your plane should be set up so you can happily enjoy the flight. People complain that an airplane is difficult to fly or a piece of doo doo when the problem lays in the set up.

Grossman56

[rifleman_btx]

Fly your planes how you want and let others fly like they want.

Exactly

[nuts-n-volts]

Argument against Dual rates and expo. If the premise is to make it a successful flight I argue all you are doing is making it more complicated. Real aircraft do not have expo or dual rates.
I spend many flights getting the cg correct and the adjusting the the throws so the model flys the way I perceive it should based on my experience as a pilot.
Against dual rates ... unless its a maiden.. otherwise adjust the controls so the airplane behaves in a manner you can handle. Feedback loop. How are you going to learn the airplane if you have 2 or 3 different control modes? Your not. Right now the Spit has enough elevator to depart at any speed. If i yank on it its departed. I am more than capable of handling that but if your not then dial back the elevator throws so it gets close to stall but wont go.
Dynamic pressure = .5xdensityxVel ^2... Velocity^2 is your expo. As you decel to land you want linear feedback from tx. If you cant see the decel you can feel it. If you have 25% expo you are not getting linear input to the elevator. Somewhere in the flare or approach there is non linear input. Flight controls systems are linear in a static and dynamic stable airplane.
I would make an effort to simplify your Tx switchology.. You want to have to reach for a dual rate switch when your battery all of a sudden starts to die on you?
If the controls are too sensitive the adjust the throws down until it flys like trainer or whatever your skill level is. Dont use expo and dual rates to solve the twitchy bird syndrome.
There is zero reason to have 3 dual rate for any airplanes that FW sells. Simplify your set up . Set it to where it flys to your skill level then dont mess with it. As you build time with the model and want more responsiveness then add control throws. Keep you hand eye coordination linear.

Sorry, there are two things wrong with your theory. First, we humans feel the controls pretty much the same as in a man-carrying a/c. In other words an inch is an inch is an inch. So an 1/8" input on full size is a 1/48" on a 1/6 scale model. Pretty hard to feel that with no back pressure and only the spring. If you don't tone down you end up having more throw per feel in the model. If you don't add expo, you won't have enough on the ends.

Also, a model has built in negative expo from the start. You have to add (depending) about 10 to 20% just to get back to linear. I'd show you the diagram, but I'm sure you're OK with pulling it up outta curiosity.

But, then again, like Evan said, fly like ya want!

[Evan D]

Well... Proper mechanical advantage to get the most out of the torque and travel AND resolution the servo has.

Why do a range check, just fly the plane close in and hope. Why balance the aircraft when the control surfaces can correct for it?



Oh, and why worry about the servo arm placement/ alignment when you have subtrim?


Sorry, got off track there....

[Coconut]

Why be disconnecting and putting linkages back on and off over and over again to get the plane to fly good without dual rates and expo, when you could do it in the TX? Just disconnect and put the linkages on to level the control surfaces when you first put the plane together, and then use the technology in the TX's to make the plane fly good.