TD M60 A3 review.

[SoCalBobS]

There was talk of the tank siting too low with the original plastic setup, and that the metal upgrade lifted it. Maybe a downward change in angle of the suspension arms caused an unintended consequence that you've experienced. Just a thought.

[Rubicon99]

The M60 completed it first official organized IR battle day at the April 2023 LA Tank Clubs monthly event. Overall it did well for a large tank on what is a CQB battle field that largely favors small tanks. Below are a few photos of the M60 on the field.

Just prior to the LA event I discovered an issue with the M60. When back up even small steps or obstacle the Special rear road wheels/suspension arms have a tendency to over extend and then rotate forward (towards the front of the tank). This causes a huge amount of stress to be placed on the torsion bar "lock down" covers and can snap them in half. This issue I first thought was cause by my "tightening" of the torsion bars to produce more down force as the "metal" M60 is rather heavy and sags in the rear. By swapping out the rear torsion bars with ones that were not "tightened" I discovered the issue was still present and appeared to me to be even worse.

The M60 does not have any suspension travel limiters either up or down. This is not a issue for the up or down travel while driving forward or reverse on relatively flat or moderately uneven ground, but the lack of limiters when the rear wheels are "weight unloaded" as in creating a hill cause them to drop beyond what is safe and into the range of over traveling. Then when backing over an obstacle the rear wheels do not travel upwards but instead travel downward into and often past the over travel range(see photo below).

To correct this flaw in the rear suspension I am installing suspension travel limiters. These will allow for unlimited up travel but stop the down travel before the suspension arms/wheels rotate to far. The point I chose to set the down travel maximum at was the "resting point" of the suspension with the tracks off and the tank is elevated off the ground. With the limiters installed I believe the issue with over travel with be solved and the M60 will be a more durable and reliable tank. Why limiters were not installed during the design process I have no idea except to believe they never drove the prototypes in reverse over obstacle or even over hills.

Battle day photos.


Examples of what the over travel looks like. The suspension arm will still move quite a distance more towards from of the rear of the tank. I did not want to break anything just to get more dramatic photos. It was not fun fixing it when it did break.


Prototype of limiters I will be using. These are typically called collared or sleeve limiters.

Oh and I discovered the suspension arms have two bearings not just one. That's a good thing👍👍

[RichJohnson]

Just wait till you come across the M2.5 lol. I had to go get some spares.

[tank_me]

I do the same. I buy a variety pack of different sizes. I now have one for M2, M3, and M4. I also have a bunch of M5 stuff, but that is of very limited use.

[keilau]

I have a whole slew of M3 screws of different head types and sizes I keep on hand now. If it ends up being too long the 'ole Dremel can take care of the excess. :)

Derek

For the price of a few metric screws from US hardware store, I can get a kit of M3 machine and a kit of M3 self taping screws of various lengths at Amazon. Shipping take awhile from China. They are essential for 1/16 scale RTR tanks.

[tank_me]

I have a whole slew of M3 screws of different head types and sizes I keep on hand now. If it ends up being too long the 'ole Dremel can take care of the excess. :)

Derek

[Rubicon99]

Seeing that suspension failure I might use some of the aluminum bar, angle or U channel I have would be sufficient to make "hats" for these pieces so they don't snap like that. I would replace the screw in the middle with a slightly longer one and use it to secure the hat over the plastic. The idea works in my head at least... :)

Derek

Oh it will work. You probably will not need to swap out the screws though because the stock ones actually stick out the bottom of the tank a fair amount.

[tank_me]

Seeing that suspension failure I might use some of the aluminum bar, angle or U channel I have would be sufficient to make "hats" for these pieces so they don't snap like that. I would replace the screw in the middle with a slightly longer one and use it to secure the hat over the plastic. The idea works in my head at least... :)

Derek

[Rubicon99]

You are the Tongde master!

Bob it's actually been a fun tank to build up. Lots of decent features that make it a "tinkers" dream. So far it has been overall running very well, after the new motors and control system were added.

[SoCalBobS]

You are the Tongde master!

[Rubicon99]

Finished up weathering and got the M60 out for a solid T&E run. Ran great right up to the last moment when I decided to climb some rocks driving in reverse. As I did I over extended the left rear road wheel and it rotated over the wheel just I front of it. This caused a rather loud SNAPPING sound to be heard. Aka something just broke....

The left rear Special road wheel was able to move as it did for two reasons. One it does not have a working shock absorbers attached(cosmetic only) to limit the range of travel and two I have the torsion bars "tightened" for more down pressure which caused the wheel to travel even further forward. Had I not "tightened" the torsion bar the SNAP and subsequent broken torsion bar mounting cover would not have happened.

So what was learned? The torsion bar covers need be be strengthened and a simple re-enforcement/modification to the cover will add great durability for harder use. Also I will be looking at adding a down travel limiter to the Special right and left road wheels

See photo of broken covers and my simple fix / modification.

The brass C brace was made to fit snugly and was attached via an epoxy resin. I will be installing this modification to all the covers at some point in the future.

[MrChef]

Looking good can't wait to see how you finish her.

[Rubicon99]

Fresh out of the paint and detail shop and will be heading off to weathering next. Quite the transformation vs stock so far if I might say so....

[Rubicon99]

Accessories have been installed and the tank is being taken out for it last test test run prior heading to the paint shop. Not overly impressed with the detail of most of the accessories especially the turret side "gas cans" fortunately I have others nicer ones to replace them with. I also had to modify a few other parts to look and fix correctly, namely the turret tow cable.

Some parts were left off (hull tow mount/hooks and smoke launcher) because I have better more detailed version coming shortly. Even still I might not use all of them as front two hooks tend not to last very long give the way I drive my tanks.

Shown below: Tank with most of the accessories on prior to painting. The black on the wheel hubs is paint not the silicone I mentioned earlier in this thread. Also the main antenna is not part of the kit accessories note is the main gun.

[tank_me]

Personally I think the metal ones would fall off easier as they are heavier so that's not an issue for me. I will use a rubbery glue or silicone to keep them on. What is strange to me is the plastic. It sands very strangely as in it sands much easier than both ABS or styrene. It doesn't seem to glue with Tamiya thin or Plastruct white bottle. Like I said before it did glue with Weld-on "#4" (IE: MEK), but it did require holding the parts together for a bit while the MEK dried. Paint seems to scratch off of it very easily. To me they aren't 3D printed as the parts on the sprues are injection molded and I see no difference between the plastic on the sprues from the plastic on the turret and hull as the glue melts both equally. I'm just not sure why kind of plastic they used for the injection molding.

Derek

[cmdrcody]

If that makes me sound grumpy then count me in with cmdrcody. I'll proudly wear the grumpy badge.

Sorry, the "Grumpy" badge is mine! 👅

[MrChef]

They didn't supply metal hub caps?? All HL Pro Edition RTR tanks (full metal tracks, drive sprocket, idler and running wheels) come with metal hub caps for everything.
Why doesn't TD come with them? That ain't right IMHO.

I think I understand where you're coming from. If I'm not then feel free to set me straight.

When I or possibly you look at these offerings I'd expect more attention to detail across the board from packaging to construction/assembly of the model to it's quality and it actually being able to perform as advertised out of the box. "New-Ready to Run" to me means exactly that to me. Not requiring adjustments or finessing or fidgeting with it to do what it's basically supposed to do in broad terms. But that's me. I'm new. I haven't yet built a model and I don't modify or yet have the acquired skills to create the working guts of one of these tanks or even a kit build.

So for me spending the money on what is it $165. for the Basic TD Patton of upgrading to the $279. Metal upgraded version I'd expect at least what Heng Long offers. Now i might be spoiled coming late to the game.

That being said. I've heard the stories of the "Old" Heng Long and how they've progressed over the years. So dare I say they are now the benchmark for entry level Tanker Hobby enthusiast? So I kind of expect at least what Heng Long offers for the same price. Not including $$$ conversion and shipping fees.

But for the more advanced and experienced Hobby enthusiast like Rubicon, Bob, Etc. who has been down the road already. Models that are currently offered, they are kinda bored and looking not only for a new model but a new challenge. And I respect that. I just hope these companies give you guys some kind of discount or development fee.

But yeah plastic hub caps that don't exactly fit for the upgraded and more $$$ metal version is plain Cheap IMHO.

If that makes me sound grumpy then count me in with cmdrcody. I'll proudly wear the grumpy badge.

As they say to each his own, Bon appetite,

Chef [/rant]

[Rubicon99]

They didn't supply metal hub caps?? All HL Pro Edition RTR tanks (full metal tracks, drive sprocket, idler and running wheels) come with metal hub caps for everything.
Why doesn't TD come with them? That ain't right IMHO.

You would have to ask TD. But metal or not they would still need to be glued on because they would still not pressure fit onto the wheels. Once painted no one will be able to tell if they are metal or plastic, besides metal caps offers no advantages over plastic caps IMO.

[cmdrcody]

The plastic hub caps do not "pressure fit" in place like HL caps they need to be glued on, again similarly to Tamiya hub caps. I use a black auto gasket silicone to hold the caps on. This has worked well for me over the years. It is strong holding but easy enough with a firm twist of the hub cap to remove should maintenance be needed.

They didn't supply metal hub caps?? All HL Pro Edition RTR tanks (full metal tracks, drive sprocket, idler and running wheels) come with metal hub caps for everything.
Why doesn't TD come with them? That ain't right IMHO.

[Rubicon99]

Now that most of the mechanical issues have been tweaked to my liking and a new 7.1 HL control system is installed it is on to the next item. The metal road wheels.

The metal wheels are one piece with both an inside and outside bearing. They have rubber "tires" that are a bit loose and should be glued on to keep them from coming off (something I did after the first test drive).

The wheels are held on via stainless steel axles bolt to the suspension arms. This is similar to how Tamiya wheels are attached and it works very well.

The plastic hub caps do not "pressure fit" in place like HL caps they need to be glued on, again similarly to Tamiya hub caps. I use a black auto gasket silicone to hold the caps on. This has worked well for me over the years. It is strong holding but easy enough with a firm twist of the hub cap to remove should maintenance be needed.

Overall the road wheels and the way they attach to the suspect arms is very good and I foresee years of trouble free operation from them.








Silicone glue to hold hub cap on.

To be continued.......