Alternative motor windings and drive schemes

[Clugh]

But b4 we go futher its seem you friend from the german social media has run into a snag in his post about ecalc and maxons formulas while promoting his own mini calculator on the American forum with another eggheaded that reads and pays close attention to what's said. I have to admit its good Scheiße

Look here

Yesterday, 03:14 AM #60

snoopy_schulz Registered User

Hi, using an e-flight calculator, i recommend to compare the calculated resuls with a reliable source with real measured data including real measured motor efficiencies. This may provides a real insight into the expected accuracies. For instance, a Leopard LC8072-10T (175Kv). Calculations in an e-flight calculators are based on simple math models, representing the steady state behaviour of an BLDC e-flight drive train. Propeller models used in an e-flight calculator somtimes very inaccurate. An e-flight calculator calculates (only a prediction ) an order of magnitude of the needed parameters motor current, motor efficiency and so on in a range of around +/- 30 % worst case. Reaching an overall calculated accuray of +/- 10 % is somtime more a wish than reality. This also applies to my Tiny MotCalc and MotCalc V9.0. Calculated motor efficiencies higher than 90 % using BLDC motors from the recreational sector, mostly cannot be reached in practice, that would be rather a domain of large bldc-motors used e.g. in electric-cars. https://www.reisenauer.de/aid-2043-L...elle-12mm.html Micha

[Clugh]

But the American members response is one for the ages.

Yesterday, 01:26 PM #61
funfly2 Registered User	Hi Micha, So, does it mean that creating your Tiny MotCalc was just a waste of time?

[Clugh]

I definitely suggest advanced hobbyist read this esp the part about vendors that post Io numbers at zero timing to bolster their products.

EX

powercroco Registered User Thread OP

if I calculate my motor in the "american IEEE engineers way": no load 13,4A for 24,4V . I stall for 56V becomes 31.111 A now. put this into the formula results in 95,892% efficiency. and now I will measure the Io for 12V and 0° timing to gain some more points in efficiency. may be 96,1% ? we will know it soon.

[Clugh]

As you know Dr Okon the American engineer had a higher eta than you and took his measurements at 10 degrees timing so if he used your zero timing fudge his eta would be > 97% but you didn't calculate over 96t at zero. In you own estimator you use came 380 watts of loss at idle zero so please restate the win for a high idle thumper because I don't see it...... The engineer named Hubert is also not his best friend. You have to remember there are no photos of us in cooperation. He's always been your friend that taught you this gave you high praise and promoted your products even to me until you went rogue on him at the introduction of me.


10 degrees timing in a 10 pole motor will actually carry the boat 90 mph . But that huge 24 slot 20 pole outrunner does nothing extreme at zero degrees timing in a speed plane. You wont find one running at that timing and in auto its never there under a load.

keep it real in 2024

[Clugh]

Good morning Ralph
I wish the paper Micha posted was in English for them because this is interesting here: 15x10e & 14x12e. Same watts. Which is better - RC Groups

Recommendation:

Pitch speed of the propeller should be factor 1.3 to 1.4 higher than model speed, used for gliders (efficient climbing propeller).
Pitch speed of the propeller should be factor 1.5 higher than model speed, used for motor models (normal propeller).
Pitch speed of the propeller should be factor 2 higher than model speed, used for fast motor models (speed models).

See also page 14 given in the document below (sorry, is in german language

so I have to ask even though I know I wont receive an answer . Do Your +600km/h planes have a pitch speed of 1200 km/h? Does that also indicate a slip of over 50%. Thats optimal? 🤔 and what's the tip speed there at the diameters you run? 😯 Sounds like it will have it limits into reality but maybe I'm interpreting things in correctly

You have the answer if you look at the trap speed vs the rpm from telemetry or the inverters datalog.

[Clugh]

I mean id think the answer was much simpler for the op. The best prop if they draw the same wattage is the one that makes more thrust. Or maybe it is again that I'm missing something. I must be because based on statement 3 more thrust would ruin the 1:2 model to pitch speed ratio prescribed for speed. In a rocket the magnitude of thrust is responsible for its acceleration and altitude capabilities. So I guess prop stall plays a part in planes? but also in the real world doesn't the material have to be able withstand the rotational physics involved.? 1,235 km/h in pitch speed puts you supersonic in pitch speed so what is the tip speed at the prop diameter there? The models speed based on this ratio would be 617.km/h.

Its alot to wrap a brain around because a tugboat prop has alot of slip and makes alot of thrust but it is not fast. I find it extremely difficult to believe you experience 50% slip in your speed planes . I know in boats for speed you definitely wont win with slip like that.

[Clugh]

Good morning.... what does the empirical king say to all this? You not going to give RC groups the pitch speed facts from the real numbers taken at 600 km/h model airplanes Dr Okon (powercroco) ??? 😈

[Clugh]

But anyway here's a link to ferrotech for the boys who may believe there is some validly in ferrofluid cooling. Id suggest getting the stator ade though because grim has already worked with them for a solution even a beginner could add.

Ferrofluid - Corporate (ferrotec.com)



And here is a flow chart of how it could cool and pump itself passively seeking the hottest parts first. And yes it is much more space age than a gear driven pump like you find on a windshield washer pump pushing water. Ask about it again in Bayern because the heatsink could be augmented with a Peltier TEC cooler or cryogenic gas spray and speed the closed loop.

.
Ferrotech is also a specialist in such thermoelectric

Thermoelectric Modules - Thermoelectric (ferrotec.com)

[Clugh]

The benefits of excellent cooling enhances the operation of electric motors of any size and type.

[Clugh]

[Clugh]

Moin Ralph!

Here is a real Ferrari with no reactive power....Hanz muzzled the rogue representative quickly. Did you see that? FB notification to vendors can be quite effective 😁

[Clugh]

Hi,
Its awfully early here Dr. 3:08 am I know you are here early peering my models but I'm waiting for parts . Dont worry ill show you how a marine motors windings can easily be liquid cooled directly, U don't need a water cooling jacket necessarily so being an external rotor is not a problem. The models will run soon and all of them are much faster that these 80.46 km/h Styrofoam models held up in Bayern as a benchmark....



Blazing fast.....



Hubert

[Clugh]

Its an entirely different level and well over 2.5K ( 2 and a half bands) complete. For fear of crying a river I don't really wanna add it all up and post it . 👀 No matter what. Actions speak louder than words so it meets water soon enuf and that always comes with video and truthfully shared data, I dont need an add on Garmin or a speed trap at the row pool in Munich to show you where I am because my Futaba has that 😜 The rooster tail alone would drown the little big mac box boats as they cant even run in its wake. 🙄 Its kind of silly, the debate, because Crisco is never running a FE boat again anyway..The last runs must have been in the early 90's before smart phones were readily available that's why there is no videos to support any of it. Alot has changed since brushed dc motors.

Its too old anyway bruh.

[Clugh]

Hi Ralph ill show you and Crisco more about our rules & marine e motor and cooling concepts in the boat thread.

Yall boys please slide thru...



Hubert

[Clugh]

...

[Clugh]

Hi Powercroco!
Knew I could count on you to come see wats going on in the west where a hybrid wye-delta still shines........

[Clugh]

Chrisco says all the good ideas come from there but Maizahtulakma Mohd Khalid's optimized 12N10P hybrid DC PMFSM has tremendous torque output and a power factor of.98. It can run highspeed. She like most of the work I've shared with him is from African or Asiatic members of the IEEE.. Ashame that matters to him.

But I beg to differ..

One of the main goals of the body is to educate the world and that includes Bayern finest who himself has posted a library of such INTERNATIONAL work. So the motor Fuher should relax...and leave all the fallacy at the pool.

Many Papers on Electric Drives - Motors - RCLine Forum

Its hilarious the things that get said years later when there are archives of it all on every forum in North America and Germany. Even then Helmut wanted credit to the "G" for being the first in flight but the Wright brothers did that in Kitty Hawk NC.

We call it Nags Head and I fish there often.

And now you are here....in 2024 still subscribed to work in North Carolina,

Thanks for your continued interest Dr Ralph

[Clugh]

These specked trout were caught in late October a few miles from the historic launch site to be first in flight. Right down the road at the small bridge coming out of Manteo. Look on google maps too see where that is to the kitty hawk site. Its literally down the road about a mile...

If your ever there you can eat at Mulligans they make a great shrimp taco.

Ralph!
Do your didactic friends there like Crisco do normal things like fish or do they just argue about the 20 planes and 2 motor brands that compete in WORLD championship speed flying?

[Clugh]

Torque Shaft

• CreatorGerd Giese
• Created onWednesday at 16:10

Gerd Giese

Presenter

Team

• Wednesday at 16:10

• #1

Hello, I dared to shoot my new transducer relatively cheaply.
The background is, now I don't have to justify myself for the DC values anymore.
Now I measure the torque up to 20Nm and max speed up to 20000rpm.
I will use a UniLog2 (1/20 sample) as a transducer.
At most, I can capture 50V and 150A (pin up to ~7.5KW). That's quite enough for me. But there would still be room for improvement... I am looking forward to the first results.
Only before that, there is still the conversion of my measuring table. I will report.




Greetings Gerd and all Watt your Volt
-----------------------------------------
www.elektromodellflug.de - LiPo ABC
SLS XTRON-50C review

• 

Reactions:chris2f4u, Cleopatra024, snow schnitz

Hi Ralph.
Its better to just use the same geared motor or a highspeed in runner in an on axis torque cradle with a real lever arm to press a load cell for a brake. That way the rpm is only limited to the DUT or exceeded by in runners that can run 100,000 rpm and generate 24kW of brake. You can also measure real ft pounds this American way.

[Clugh]

This is the lamination template for my permanent magnet flux switching machine that utilizes bi polar flux. Its 50 x .2mm mm thick 🙈 . Ill send it to Polaris asap for a cut in silicon steel. Its made to fit pm 1mm thick in the armature. Now I have to design a laminated rotor stack of electrical steel. I haven't settled on a bell material yet.Ill let them assemble the stack so i can receive it ready to wrap.