Alternative motor windings and drive schemes

[Clugh]

Ill start DTP with them who can also deliver around 18kW peaks each. I've logged 380 on the inverters so Ill start here. Then I switch to the APD F3200 inverter package that weight only 70 grams with the lowest resistance in class.. That will certainly make up for additional weight in copper. This castle tandem is good for 20kW continuous rating. And at least 38kW peaks. . The current limit is settable in the castle link software The inverters are 8 or 9 years old at least. The castle hydra Ice HV 200 V2's have never failed me. 🙈🙉🙊

[Clugh]

And so for 2024 I hope the modelers finally say its time to see what something different looks like.. I don't know what scorpions hand winding machine found with this topology but it certainly cleaner than a 12N10P with more cogging steps and lower cogging torque. The 1st harmonic in the DL is at 1% according to the in a SL the 1st is at 12% in comparison the SL 12N10P is at 25% and in the dual layer it is 6% sp there it is you can calculate from these basic slot pole combinations the noisier machine and the one with the highest winding factor as a multi layer machine as well as the power factor potential because you can calculate the Thd from the advanced mode of the basic topology in the Wicklungsfaktor-Rechner. From there you can calculate the power factor. Then you will have a start to real power calculation and not hobbyists hoopla. Since the DTP turns down the first harmonic and gives the pm relief Ill wind these in a single layer because they are not as noisy anyway and with the 11th further away its less stress on the PM anyway. If I run them with the dual F3200's it will have quite a bit of power density in an extremely light package. Since we have learned a little more in 2024 we wont got to a 50 mm diameter stack we will lengthen the 46mm diameter stack to 46 or 50 or whatever and see where that goes. My lathe is very clean and quite capable of the special editions. I can also lay bi, tri and quad filar in the sl radially.. IN OEM form they already give excellent numbers with the GM's F5B and 5FD propellors. A full sl bobbin in this AWG is is most definitely a significant upgrade in fill and if done right lower the resistance as well.. All I'm really waiting for is an American pilot that has the skillset to take what I give him and log what its all capable of. I have really no fear of it not being competitive . My plan is to fit with a 28 - 32 mm stack motor of an undetermined stack length from Xnova or Cobra and mount it with APD in DTP in a Sergey Sobakin Avionik F5B B18 (1940mm) Ju$t becau$e I can .Of course if they want a hand wound scorpion or whatever else they see and they like it wouldn't be a big deal but If it was me id fly Neu, Xnova, or the Cobra. Being buried in repairs or needing all the time isn't my idea of success so I'd probably do alot more than other people to prevent it needing to come back to me because of thermal failure especially in its intended environment..

Ill consult with Steve and Jeff and a few other F5B guys that sent me GM to test with the outrunner in the Neu outrunners first place.
I've ;looked at alot of planes and considered ALOT of things. This is a good fit for me to come to the party. Ill be fine flying it or finding a real pilot you dont have to be worried Imma fit it with the 18 channel Futaba. I know it doesn't need all that . But who know what auxiliary cooling systems or things of that nature I might add with 36kW in 70 grams of inverter...👀 You'll be here well into the new year.... with weight restriction the idea is to fly faster with less weight so it makes sense to me to go this route. The pilots should be encouraged by Dzhamel who jumps in the game and is immediately up there with the small number of competitors. He just made a few purchases and put it all together. Maybe you don't have to be so exclusively gifted after all... you do need some coin though😀

[Clugh]

Why not also this 180 DTP?
Lets let the new year get here first. I promise to feed you...😀

[Clugh]

More theories I plan to implement in one of the models

See the frosty winding on top? Just. maybe this would help prevent windings from burning up... 😀

[Clugh]

Direct airgap cooling with only mineral oil through the "flussperren" the Avionik can come with alot..So im not worried about any conjecture about the things I don on RC groups or the German social media simple because not one of them are doing these things or are even aware as far as Im concerned. Thats how it is Ralph . You know I see you are here. you dont have to run and hide when I come online I know you interest in the hybrids is maximal! Im going finish it up and run it. Let me show you and the boys my preparations . These are not the locked out Crayola cartoons like your boy draws for you on the German social media....😀 Do you see with direct air gap cooling the slot here was 278C but the magnets were 94 👀

[Clugh]

Expand upon the principle to something that will cool with no pump and also improve the gap flux density.. Pretty amazing all the speculation ive heard throughout the years on things already empirically confirmed and proven to work in heat reduction and more power delivery to the shaft! But what's to expect from people that spend there time sketching cartoons of u and kuni patz to answer a difference in technical opinion. The hobby world "gurus" are still just doing conventional dl wyes and deltas with convection cooling where they think more copper is actually a thermal resistor versus open air even though the copper IS the sink not the airflow? The cartoonish never even added the hall sense to the and see how it performed either .He's done learning and you may be

I don't know....I guess that's up to each individual what they want to learn , know, or share, Huh?

[Clugh]

Upon further study I don't have to worry about the wye coils being bifilar. In the case of the hybrid the cross sectional area of wye winding set should be smaller using the appropriate (Wye turns x Sqrt. 3) = delta turns ratio, yielding the same total copper volume as the conventional 7+7 YY connection. So the comparative Croco wound motor in copper volume and resistance will be a 7+7 YY in 1.828mm. Thats already a "guru wind." by convention .. 😀 5 turns wye is optimally set with 9 turns delta . That maintains the same MMF of each winding set, and it looks like that will fit fairly easily the way I have it prepared. I have some 12 AWG PEEK coated magnet wire I might use because its been on the shelf . The color contrast may inspire Christmas cheer. It may not do a thing for your battery but if you test it on a know load for a duration run you should see that you bell is significantly cooler. Does that have dividends? What do you think considering what you know empirically? 14 Turns of single strand 1.828mm dual layer in the 5o series cut is certainly not for the weak. That will move the plane. The 2.0mm will work because the winding reduces triplen and the eddy generated copper joule losses. Less parallel strands still mean less proximity losses. The hybris can still be wound in bifilar winds which would still be better than antiquity. 🙈🙊🙉


I thank the Triple E Drs.. Ayman Samy Abdel-Khalik, Shehab Ahmed, and Ahmed M. Massoud for the painstaking research and Hubertus direction they have provided.

Meine Wenigkeit!
Hubert

[Clugh]

This has zero to do with APD the lower resistance inverter runs cooler there no doubt only powercroco need to "wonder" This happens because the motor windings are getting hot enuf to soften the connections.

This is the resutlt of your bi filar rotor hot knockers Borat!. APD has nothing to do with it. U keep trying to knock the much better inverter and clearly dont understand ohms law....🤣

DZHAMEL problem is he is flying you. Clearly u have a problem understanding internal resistance and heat in a transistor. The more you talk on rc groups the more i see you havent a clue what you are talking about. APD synchronous rectification is the best its one if not the coolest running inverter in the market. What it hasnt done is burned up like a YGE.

Man youre crazy 4 real....👀

[Clugh]

Would be nice to have temperature sensor also on the APD - data from Kai's 5050 Winding (same winding as yours, but smaller cooling holes) and from th 320YGE I just have.

The APD is much smaller and lighter and has much less surface to bring the heat away, so the result could be really interesting!

How looks your winding ?
May be, you could take some photos from the front side of the motor through the cooling holes!

Btw you need the soldering area 3 times bigger than the copperdiameter - the soldering has abot 3 times higher(?) resistance compared to the copper"


This is also wrong Ralph excessive solder doesnt help anything. You want just enuf to do the job with concave fillets. Alot of time the solder joint done properly has LESS resistanmce than the solid wire equivalent.


Thats been studied in labs already. If you had a formal education in electronics ud recognize a good solder joint and also use the righ solder. The type you use and it flux it uses makes a difference in the joints logevity but thats just the result of over worked motor windings thats why u asked to see them. The front view mean zero even you know that. he better check the motor because it has probably failed in between the wires. The insulation would likely fail if its hot enuf to melt the solder.

Thanks for posting you dont know how to solder correctly.

He need a more powerful motor. It is at its limits just let it go bruh.

[Clugh]

What does the photo he sent viewing the winding heads through the cooling hole mean? U just check motors with your eyeballs? Man that's suspect look at your own proof why..


Frontside looks lovely right?

This is the same motor on the backside where the hot ass WYE pigtails are.

so u good with his photo even though you know at least 500F was at his solder joint? Thats some service. No suggestion to do an isolation test. WOW...Thats crazy and you can see APD has nothing to do with his problem with your motor. This came off the YGE😀

Most solder melts around 180 to 190 degrees Celsius, that is 360 to 370 degrees Fahrenheit. So we have to get the solder joint hotter than this.

U not gonna check his insulation before he flies it agai. mind you hes only flown it bout 5 times and already signs of excessive heat is showing up Ralph.

U keep lying so the karma is on its way. Watch for the black box moment on the 5000.00 plane. Its coming! You rather watch that happen than question your work. That exactly what I was not willing to do with the pyro is send the customer something I was unsure about.




If I tell a person the motor is good for the application then it should not be failing every other pass. You have 2 full pages related to nothing but the repair of burnt up motors some of which failed the inverters as well. Your motors are dangerous to run it seems....👀 If you are smart and care you need to ask him to send you the motor or get a megger! Alot of cash on the line. Do you care or is self aggrandizing failing motors on the forums the goal?

[Clugh]

The most important point is were already speculating has the windings failed.at the 4th run what a competitive flying season when you cant make it past practice...😀 How long does it last two weeks? Also if the solder has the wrong type of flux IPA wont clean it and it will continue to corrode the electrical joint till it fails. He should be using silver/copper/ electrical solder with the right flux in its composition.

I guess since he isnt showing logs of the 603 or anything else near 610 he has to pay for repair....?

Phantom power from the dark side lives on....u want the motor to fail his inverter. Shame on you.🖤

[Clugh]

Why not tell him to crimp and solder if he wants #6 gold plated lugs directly to the UVW and remove the stranded wire he has soldered to the inverter the bolt the motor to the power stages with a dab of battery non corrosive grease under the lugs.. The lugs can accept 8 awg. That Man spends all that money and you dont really help him. that man has spent 10 to 20K on planes and motors from yall German boys. You genius and wont just tell him clearly the motor is overloaded no matter how he fastens it. Thats crazy and I hate to see people that spend real money treated like that because they nice and easy going people just take advantage....but anyway 🙈🙉🙊

[Clugh]

He would also do better to use the APD tech of a balanced cap bank.. He can use large 7 AWG dual 10AWG or 8 AWG with gold plated lugs to connect everything. Also cluster spacing of the electrolytic caps under insulation affects their thermal performance significantly . Did ya'll know that? have you investigated anything more besides a caps ESR? 😀

[Clugh]

Big dogs use lugs for higher power demands

[Clugh]

Wats so amazing about the inverter tech available today is i can drive MGM's robust bridge just as if not more sophistically than they do with one chip. and dont have to code a damn thing! Wat DZ should with his coin is have an embedded inverter built off this architecture. He can win with the shortest current paths . Ralph doesn't know anything about building inverters bruder.. We live in an OPEN source world with all types of FW options and some not even developed yet. Im working with ZUBAX on a few things. 😀 I can get APD still through professional ties but im not lost if they leave you because I can build my own inverter bridge simply. I person can also hack a small drone BLHELI 32 logic side. and build a bridge for it.

[Clugh]

[Clugh]

.“
- Helge Hackbarth (Managing Director at KopterKraft OÜ)

"We took a known problematic motor that would always get bogged down in rapid acceleration and skip and [Myxa] made it work. Quality is top notch […], no corners cut on that.”
- Ryan Johnston (CEO at Applied Aeronautics)

[Clugh]

Can YGE do this with the green Croco blades powercroco? Evolve Baby.... 😀

[Clugh]

Vendors on the forums have ruined the hobbies ran off all the creatively advanced modelers with their $ite $ponsorships and as a result the hobbyist are dependent on the CES shelf just like they want. Im sure this is also why APD leaves the hobby scene.. They are nothing but another form of advanced hobbyist that are done with the social media. castle is not the only player, JUTT is still there with KISS 32 and that's a nice hybrid logic he has put together.. maybe he will build the market a large drive. im waiting for the ZUBAX VALENOK prototype to arrive. Its 96 volts and basically Im just looking at it to try its algorithms and design an even higher voltage drive with newer optiMOS and SiCfet technology.

[Clugh]

SICFET