Alternative motor windings and drive schemes

[Clugh]

5 Years going on 6 for real Borat.....🙈🙉🙊

You know where the "flussperren" external rotor ideas came from.. The universities work filtered through Christian, Pem, and I. They linked us to the initial theories and I brough forth the cut from that and it will work because what it would do is keep a consistent slot opening wile making the salient arms highlt resistive pushing the current to the wound iron. The revision involves adding the missing iron to the width of the center tooth in the "E" cores. Manufacture of this stator is not cost effective in a hobbyking world but Dr Gerling said go for it and Christian Lucas can attest to this reality as a cc. My professional ties at Daimler were a hangup. Currently that is not the case but in the future I may plan to go back to Daimler or VOLVO because they are serious about the E development and I want to be part of that. We've materials not highly considered in model motor or other handheld actuators. The manufacture of such specialized things takes time. We also have a single layer port of the Hybrid and you already know that. .

Since your copy of my original machine simply inverts this feature I think you should review Drs. DG and GD work in the back iron then you might understand without FEMM why it was done this way in my concept and in manufacturing this may make the easiest way as the Barriere des Flussmittels can be glued in first then the link broken between the "e"
cores This goes beyond simple turns on a dirty lathe....Since your at FEMM you should review if for the sake of team Xerox....😀

These real cuts and the novel windings will be my intro into 2024
So please enjoy the daily winders news revisited. Because motors and inverters suitable for > 603 km/h are attainable without sucking crocoamps!🙈

Thanks
The real 1BOHO
Hubert

[Clugh]

"Today was successful remaiden for the oldest of the HK 5050. The plane is still in one piece and nothing has burned.


However, the APD didn't play along fully - at 17000rpm and only 280 amps it's quite clear that it can't have opened to full capacity.
Kai had 750 rpm and quite a bit more amps on the clock."

"The 5025 for the transmission is now ready for testing.

The "cooked" 4225 has also been completely dismantled in the meantime.
Even the insulated discs just crumbled. The fact that the paper was completely muddled was to be expected anyway.

With new insulated discs and an "n-spec determination winding" and a brand new bell for speed comparison, it is also waiting for its test run.'

~Borat~

I definitely believe this about amperage but the problem with full disclosure is at this point with the APD he's flown faster than Kai with a YGE so what's reality and the situation with the now hidden flight and inverter data logs?
Do you know more amps dont mean anything if its phantom power. Christians 41 pulled more amperage than you and it amounted to not a single rpm more at the prop. Do you ever calculate what's real in power and torque since the motor is not even 90% efficient and has a Kw of 93% ? The torque versus hp squareness is not there. There are a few motors that rate at alot less power and weight but pull much more torque per unit of hp. Man the MHZ 7455 boast of 20kW at barely above 5 nm of torque. Bruh that's nothing for its size and mass... Why not wind for more voltage with lower rpms and less amperage for more torque then use larger diameter at the same pitches to create more thrust. If you all use the same setups why do you expect huge differences in performance from one to the next? Its really makes no sense. A 2 meter plane should be able to handle the torque of a larger prop. The only person that benefit from them buying the same stuff over and over again is you. It also seems that many of these winds are scorched from excessive heat. So where is the >400 going exactly. Alot of repair threads mean that the motors are truly at their limits of operation. If you need to check the performance with a new rotor you also have concerns that the rotors PM's have hit the currie limits and possibly contracted irreversible damage . How could this be a stellar report that brings thumbs up from the consumers of it? A weaker rotor would most certainly drive up load amperages and cause possible timing issue for the inverter as the field becomes weaker under increasing loads and temperatures.

The AC Crosstalk of axially stacked bifilars will do this since it stresses the higher wire from the duo in the slot with an unfair share of current density every time then the parallelism is carried all the way pout to UVW. That is not ideal. What a pity an Amateur understanding that the wires average the same current in the slot cant concede it is truly un common in the field for a motor having a mass of over 2000 grams running at 50 volts to have idle currents in the double digit range.



U cant see the minimal bearing the DC has on the overall AC functionality and losses? I've told you before Borat that the DC is more relevant at really slow speeds or stall where the AC losses are non existent or much more minimal in the first place but this is only 12000 rpm you want 17,000 .

Idle speed currents represent the AC while DC represents the stall current. It is the ratio of these losses where ETA comes from.
You are hard headed because you have two strands but cant seem to understand that one gets over worked while the other is underworked and that really negates the two doubling the ampacity of the one Ralph. Can you see here the AC loss for 8 large parallel strands is 10 times its DC ?
A better wind will lower the load amperages and temperatures thus the core, rotor, and copper will perform better. The motor with 8 strands can have the same DC but still will have less "punch" because of all the AC resistance.

[Clugh]

"The 4225 doesn't yet: the n-spec is 10% higher with the grilled bell than with the new one.
So it's swapped. In my opinion, the kits from my box even have the N50EH magnets in them.

In addition, there is also Kapton in the slots, new bearings and the 6+7x1,32YY.

this will surpass the best of the current factory engines:"

So make sure Borat to post the Io and Rm on the German social media so the modelers can plot the powercroco improvements
Here! You made less power and had a lower eta than the factory windings....👀

[Clugh]

And the bell was grilled with your conventional wye winding right. Its lost 10% of its torque output...as well. So by all convention that scorched 4225 motor was destroyed in operation by overload so for original performance they'd have to order a new bell to go along with the new windings they need? basically a new motor ....nice !

The difference in PM performance alone makes it Crystal clear to everyone but the blind mice which wind is going in the right direction of real improvement and motor tuning so clearly you avoid it just because u cant wind it.. U can see the hybrid has a slightly higher DC too but still destroys convention and antiquity with higher torque a better power factor and Eta. The overall loss reduction is approaching 50% You have to be in Jonestown sipping on syrup for that not to move you in a different direction. If you want to fly faster with more copper u have to utilize more efficiently the iron its wrapped around u can in the same package with the new winding. There are several so a tru Guru could utilize at least one
🙈🙉🙊

[Clugh]

"Seen over all, these constructed in 2018 motor and propellers did, what they have been made for - but only 5 years later.
Also the construction of the "typhoon" is already 10 years old and still unbeaten.

11 of the motors, uncount number of propellers and I think more than 20 "Typhoons" are given to outside meanwhile and fly somewhere.

So it's time now to beat these "old irons" so many years later with better built machines and models.

We "old men" now sit and wait......
Let's see, what could be posible nowadays!"

Audiosmith already did that Ralph. . Do u have a clue how many different types of world records the other manufactures hold in RC that scorpion will never touch. Go back to hong kong bro with 20 competitors in F3S as a metric.

You are laf-able buddy. cause you run YGE and have never flown that fast.....and every bit of it is at its scorched performance limits! Now u begging for new planes versus new motors...and inverters but I bet you they buy APD.

• No matter if the you hide the logs showing your fuses were not the difference and they do not hold the world record with 20 SELECTED participants in your backyard any longer

[Clugh]

Borat!
I know youre not trying to brag when APD makes it happen to get YOU past 600. I can wind everything you have so whats special about it....? So I guess many hobbyist can wind world record engines quite easily. The last time your comparative 4225 scorpion motor on JAZZ to a 50 dollar swap meet align 700mx on a castle 200 was 3% lower in eta had less power density and ate up more battery. Remember those calculations on comparative power densities etc? What are you bragging about really??? u got 3rd place in the 3 way motor challenge with you and your friend from Bayern.

[Clugh]

To answer you call for "nowadays" you've seen the motor winds "PC" but these are the kinds of designs that might go further..... This is what it looks like in a prop driven plane.

The FAI lists a Piaggio P.180 Avanti as the fastest propeller-driven aircraft with speed of 927.4 km/h (576.3 mph) “over a recognized course”, in this case Fort Worth to Atlanta, set on 6 Feb 2003 by Joseph J. Ritchie.

So I guess after all the hotliners on steroids are just still toys.

[Clugh]

"One must never believe what is written somewhere without examination - often only one's own measurement brings the truth to light.

By the way, this also and especially applies to the new "miracle windings" propagated 2-3 years ago ala asymmetrical distribution, YD or various multi-layered windings.
The work on this is usually only designed for one aspect of the overall picture and - as in medicine - the less pleasant "side effects" are often swept under the table. A holistic view does not actually take place.
In most cases, even the calculations do not provide any practical support for the results.
My rule of thumb when judging such things: it's best to wait 2-3 years and if the industry hasn't thrown themselves at it with vehemence, there is usually nothing or not so much that it would justify the additional effort.
But as already written, everyone can check this for themselves in the test and then make their own decision."

Its alot of work to write your remote response on the German social media. Why not post it here yourself direct "Borat" ? 🙈🙉🙊


Right "examination"....


Why would we need to reexamine distributed and semi-distributed winding when at least 70 universities across the world have plus us... ?

The effects of harmonic dampening from overlapped or integral slot windings are as old as Nikolas Tesla.

You need to come into the fold and examine it for yourself because it seems the only person that clearly doesn't know what it does is you right? You see the list of thorough examination and concurrence right? is Power ditto yours? I never saw any references. Is there a remote link to those references or is your unpublished amateur work on the subject matter and its accompanying professional concurrence private?

The Real 1BOHO

If you need to examine it what's the problem baby? Itz only you that questions what it does. We are all quite satisfied with all the published and accepted graduate thesis results we've all seen from others and in our own bench and diagnostic tests. So if you have this need you should examine it and post the result if you feel Hubertus enuf to tell people it doesn't work. Otherwise you're no authority on the subject matter of asymmetric, hybrid or multi layer hair pin windings because you just wind convention. Then for me I don't mind sending what we do out for others to look and record INDEPENDENT data. Are you interested in something like this? Are you sure?????????????????????

Academia and Hobby RC Manufacturing specs have a different goal and standard of integrity. Just look at what you do here and on unpublished non peer reviewed German social media for "exzample"....

I mean you here all the way from Germany with my inverted handle as your screen name and no hobbyist on the forums are supposed to be smart enuf to figure out its you....even though half of them came here from fallen links of the same silly ass debate

Rather childish for any real scientist with gravatas.

[Clugh]

Du machst dir die Mühe, hier zu lesen, und antwortest dann den ganzen Weg in Deutschland, wo ich nicht posten kann oder würde, und du sagst „Ameraner sid seltsam“ 😀 Was noch beunruhigender daran ist, ist, dass wir versucht haben, dir zu helfen, bruh ... Aber da Sie es nicht selbst untersucht haben, ist es Zeitverschwendung, mit Ihnen zu reden. Fahren Sie also mit Ihrer Wind-and-Burn-Methodik fort und verstecken Sie die Protokolle, die wirklich die Fähigkeiten anderer Hersteller wie APD vs. YGE hervorheben. Geht es um die Arbeitsplatzsicherheit und die Erzielung messbarer Einnahmen durch den „steuerfreien“ Handel mit Borat, die den ständigen Wahnsinn antreiben?

Alles über die Benjamins

[Clugh]

What is interesting about the damaged rotor Borat is it answers very clearly the desynchronization of the motor with inverter under heavy load. it isnt LRK. As suspected it loses sufficient field for commutation and if it did commutate at those temperatures that caused the damage YOU say typically seen in your engines after a few seasons one would have very little pull out torque. You say it isn't saturated but what's happening there then if there is more to give of your utilized iron and rotor? The magnets YOU & SCORPION SPECIFIED are stable to 180C. If that's the case how did they suffer the sustained damage unless they exceeded that? The temperatures had to be extremely elevated or the specifications or the pm is not truthful. "Scorpion and Powercroco are cheating." 🙈🙉🙊 and why didn't you see if you could zap the original rotor versus require a new one???

All you need is a high voltage charging source for a high voltage high capacity electrolytic cap and the stator with one serial coil wound cw/ccw 180 across the stator. You zap the PM by discharging the cap across the coil at each zero degree location per pole pair.. If you don't do this how do you know if the damage was reversable or not? If you know that you can predict minimally from the truthful magnet curie specification where the temps of the pm's went. You cant argue they were high if they could not return to full operation after cooling down. That is your creation there and that has to be your empirical truth about it now right?

This has been examined for most of the available pm but you can re do it for your own examinations.. Like you said you cant trust such data unless you examine it for yourself. I guess the world should trust you then but anyway. The power reports from unilog are exasperated with all the clearly present thermal overload. Because Its definitely exceeding 100C.
🤡

[Clugh]

Fight the AC powers.....

[Clugh]

well neverminded...proof perfect for YGE

592 on 18s lipo... Thats 18 cells with YGE still flying 10 Km/h slower than The APD on 16s. Its fine... hide the logs

Bad weather you say Borat?

No 603 with YGE!

🙈🙉🙊

[Clugh]

One last time about the resistances

APD pro HV 16S .00018 ohms
APD pro HV 20S .00033 ohms
APD pro HV 24S .00091 ohms

Post the YGE on the German social media or rc groups. I bet you wont. Please continue to say the YGE can deliver more power....😀

[Clugh]

Thats a bAYes, 18S.
"AFAIK some years ago YGE had built some special 320UHV ESC good for 18S.
The UHV all are good for 17S but some also have been specified for 18S.

The advantage:
The Amps for the same power are lower than with 16S.
Also they have been much less expensive as the APD with their 1000 USD+.

I personally never owned one of them. I prefered the way to reduce the inner resistance of the 320 by additional massive copper bars on the main leads.So the 400UHV have been build.
About these I know, that there have been made only 5.

Stanleys 643 and Tims 523 and all results of Christian Hidde have been reached with these much cheaper YGE types.?

U mean you definitively dont know?

But you do know Christian Hidde runs Thomas Pyro 1000 not a power Croco 5050 U know Thomas the person whos T motor results made u mad. Look at the work squawkers



", because Ralph brought it up,
I can fully confirm all this.

Here is the latest version of the Pyro1000 drive, from 18s back to 16s because of Opto255 with 16s3500 Fullymax biaxial.
The usable power was increased to 19kW, which allowed the speed to be increased, and the weight was reduced to 4.2kg, increasing the all-important power-to-weight ratio to 4.5kW/kg.

The wing loading is thus 95 g/dm², which does not yet lead to excessive braking effects, as was the case with the XXS surface at 108.
This should make it possible to fly 650kmh horizontally without a "bubble".
We'll see."
VG Schmiddi

OPTO 255 mot a 320 they dont even make tem any more... LOL! yes APD cost more it has half the resistance and a million more features Your inverter is cheap and a pyro has more iron under the copper. You never showed DZHAMEL Audiosmith motors have you.? U let him believe your the outlier in Germany? Ha thats funny..

Buss bars on an already manufactured board is something like Turnigy does which is alot cheaper than 600 for the same exact processor . U dont know a thing about inverter "AFAIK"

That is what we call a band aid on a poor high current bridge design with only 4 layers of copper vs 8

The YGE has the same slow processor as a turnigy combined with d2pak fets so please gthoh LOL! You cant get around the antiquated hardware and considerably higher resistance with the made in Germany Stamp

notice u wont post the resistance because you know how poor it is. Post the 400 yge RESISTANCE ID LOVE TO SEE THAT EMBARASSMENT that added buss bars not more d2pak fets in parallel because it cant switch them above 16khz with their high gate charge compared to modern fet technology.

[Clugh]

Woo wee it weighs over 600 grams Im sure...3x's APD at a lil over 200. . Select distributors can still get APD no issue. Just not RC hobbyist that hide the logs.

Still waiting for the resistance numbers Ralph. Its already less power if it is only does 14S It is not a YGE 320....which is what you claimed was better and neither is this...

Looks like 205x2 the RCT cooling system weighs alot so i hope the cooling improvement can carry itself. For this weight dual F3 200's can sink 700-800 amperes with a reduced sub harmonic and weighs 70 grams no issue with privacy on you tube LOL so u can actually see the pull with a amp clamp on the scope.

[Clugh]

Hi Borat,

Why didn't you also report on German social media the "stronger and dumber" YGE dies after the 592km/h. Its interesting u also added 18 Km/h to the report it was 592 remember? If it dies after the run when did it do 610? 😀

Quote:

Originally Posted by powercroco Also a 18S "Big Monster" with 5050 and YGE was good enough for 592km/h today under very bad (wet) weather conditions.

"As i know that his ESC was died at finish.
Please correct me if i mistaken."
~DZHAMEL~

"Yes, it seems to be damaged after the 610kph run yesterday.
it still runs, but the signs are clear to me.
(unexpeted Amp fluctuations and a miscommutation at more or less low amps in the last flightover.)
seems also beeing still repairable, no burn and still running with lower amps.
May be, some of the transistors are died."

I will also check the motor for damages.
And, because of the season has ended, I could rewind it also for 16 or 18S if it is also damaged - the owner in real don't need a 20S motor.
"
~Powercroco (Boho1)~

So it seems he have to repair or buy another "stronger" yge so there is his 1200.00 dollars and he only ends up with one YGE at the end of all that. Plu$$ a rewind of a damaged motor...


🙈🙉🙊

[Clugh]

"I don't know, if 1BOHO is still active somewhere, but he had such a lot of better ideas - you should to try to find and contact him!"
~Powercroco / Borat / Boho1~


Sure you know where I am Borat right here so why you lying to the man that spends money with you? When you're right here active in my thread on this forum....as BOHO1 . Hes already told me he plans to share the 603 log from APD...😀

U mad at him? This mean you wont repair your motor he purchased from you when it fails?

You tried to edit it out at 1:27 but I got ya.... dont worry I'll link them.....thanks....😉

[Clugh]

[Clugh]

But you dont know if im still active anywhere.....😀

[Clugh]

The games wont work with me. 😁


0 seconds ago
"@ElectroDzhigit I am 1boho and Ralph knows where I'm active because he stalks me everywhere I go... he's sitting in one of my threads now with the screen name BOHO1"


~exonerated8281~

Now tell the hobbyist and an entire forum another fib....Okon...

BTW I hadn't said a single word to him about 20 s but we all know efficiency raises with voltage and he can also lower his amp draw for the same power output.

🙈🙉🙊