Official Freewing 90mm F-4 Phantom II Thread

[Hugh Wiedman]

Thanks, Hugh. It's a relief to get a good flight in. I'm really bad with the motor designations and all that stuff. I had put the old motor from my SEA camo scheme plane that I retired into this plane. That plane was three to four years old. I hadn't flown it for 18 months, with our move to Wyoming and all. It is definitely a 9 blade, I thought it was an Outrunner, but to be honest, I can't tell the difference between an inrunner and outrunner. Whatever it was or is, it was stock 6S motor and ESC when I bought it. Pathetic, huh?

If it's 3-4 years old, the fan is probably the 9 blade 3748-17501 Kv outrunner that FW used to put in most of their 90mm EDF's. I used to have that fan in both my F-4's and my F-18 and in my opinion, aircraft with those fans are rather difficult to fly. I had over 100 flights on those in my F-4 when earlier this year I decided to bite the bullet and upgrade to the 12 blade 4068-1835 Kv inrunner that I've had in my F-16 since the beginning. The difference was night and day. My only point in asking was if you decide to do a 2nd, you simply must put either the 9 blade (which they now come with stock) or better yet the 12 blade inrunner in. Take-offs are so much quicker and easier and the way it handles in the air is like comparing a dump truck to a Ferrari. It's not just for speed, something I really care less about. It just handles so much better and maintains the speed you set in whatever maneuver you are doing. I used to have several oh oh moments with the old fan where it lost enough air speed in vertical maneuvers that it would wing stall, but fortunately at enough altitude that it was recoverable. I used to fly it because it was iconic in the air and was somewhat of a challenge to get home in one piece, but now I fly it because it simply is so much fun to fly. I'm rarely over 60-70% throttle and now it flies, IMO, almost as "easily" as my Avanti. With the old fan you have, it can be a handful, so as you get more flights on it, or if you got a few extra bucks to burn, upgrade that fan. The ESC does not need to be changed either. In the last 3 months I've now installed 4 of the 12 blade inrunners and other than being bankrupt, it was the best thing I ever did. Unfortunately, I now have 4 of the old lame outrunners sitting around collecting dust. And I really wouldn't feel comfortable selling these to anyone except maybe my worst enemy.

[GliderGuy]

Well, I guess third time is a charm! The weather and winds worked out late this afternoon so I went back to the field to try to have some more success with my snake-bit Phantom II.

Thanks for the report, pix and great news. Nice to have the success! Now....go have more fun.

-GG

[locharrow]

Well done Dave......now your hooked!! ..........If your not going 8s then Hugh's right about the Freewing 12 blade fan. Being a Scotsman I bought mine direct through Ali Express and paid a lot less than some are asking..........

[Shark102]

Anybody have the STL files for the longer E/F engine nozzles? I know I’ve seen them some place but can’t find them?

[davegee]

Well done Dave......now your hooked!! ..........If your not going 8s then Hugh's right about the Freewing 12 blade fan. Being a Scotsman I bought mine direct through Ali Express and paid a lot less than some are asking..........

I'm hoping this will be a long running and enjoyable project. For now, I have three flights on it, (two I'd rather forget!) but the last one was acceptable. In the future, I might opt for another F-4 and hop it up with a better motor, ESC, etc. If I can manage to keep this one out of the "body bag" for awhile, I'll be grateful. I'm going to add some scale dodads from RC Geek, just for fun, like the printed scale exhausts, and the neat looking lights that simulate afterburner. Here's a couple of shots I just took after putting on some of Callie's decals.

[davegee]

Thanks for the report, pix and great news. Nice to have the success! Now....go have more fun.

-GG

Thanks. I was getting tired with the glue pots and foam bondo!

[davegee]

If it's 3-4 years old, the fan is probably the 9 blade 3748-17501 Kv outrunner that FW used to put in most of their 90mm EDF's. I used to have that fan in both my F-4's and my F-18 and in my opinion, aircraft with those fans are rather difficult to fly. I had over 100 flights on those in my F-4 when earlier this year I decided to bite the bullet and upgrade to the 12 blade 4068-1835 Kv inrunner that I've had in my F-16 since the beginning. The difference was night and day. My only point in asking was if you decide to do a 2nd, you simply must put either the 9 blade (which they now come with stock) or better yet the 12 blade inrunner in. Take-offs are so much quicker and easier and the way it handles in the air is like comparing a dump truck to a Ferrari. It's not just for speed, something I really care less about. It just handles so much better and maintains the speed you set in whatever maneuver you are doing. I used to have several oh oh moments with the old fan where it lost enough air speed in vertical maneuvers that it would wing stall, but fortunately at enough altitude that it was recoverable. I used to fly it because it was iconic in the air and was somewhat of a challenge to get home in one piece, but now I fly it because it simply is so much fun to fly. I'm rarely over 60-70% throttle and now it flies, IMO, almost as "easily" as my Avanti. With the old fan you have, it can be a handful, so as you get more flights on it, or if you got a few extra bucks to burn, upgrade that fan. The ESC does not need to be changed either. In the last 3 months I've now installed 4 of the 12 blade inrunners and other than being bankrupt, it was the best thing I ever did. Unfortunately, I now have 4 of the old lame outrunners sitting around collecting dust. And I really wouldn't feel comfortable selling these to anyone except maybe my worst enemy.

Wow ! Good advice! I'lll definitely keep that in mind. I had heard about the 12 blade fans and the Iinrunner motors being superior to what I have, and I'd like to make it easier on me for flying, if that is possible. For the moment, I'll use this one as my "trainer" maybe it being a bit more difficult will make a new plane with the updated gear even easier to fly! it's really an iconic plane. I had a lot of friends at work who flew them in Vietnam. They were a mean looking, deadly, lead sled!

[Hugh Wiedman]

Wow ! Good advice! I'lll definitely keep that in mind. I had heard about the 12 blade fans and the Iinrunner motors being superior to what I have, and I'd like to make it easier on me for flying, if that is possible. For the moment, I'll use this one as my "trainer" maybe it being a bit more difficult will make a new plane with the updated gear even easier to fly! it's really an iconic plane. I had a lot of friends at work who flew them in Vietnam. They were a mean looking, deadly, lead sled!

The inrunner will take different afterburners from the outrunner you now have in it, so keep that in mind if you get AB's now, and upgrade later. The 9 blade inrunner takes a 36mm universal inrunner twin burner and the 12 blade takes a 39mm universal inrunner twin burner. I'm fairly certain your outrunner takes a Freewing universal 90 mm outrunner. This is assuming you end up with an RC Geek burner.

[davegee]

The inrunner will take different afterburners from the outrunner you now have in it, so keep that in mind if you get AB's now, and upgrade later. The 9 blade inrunner takes a 36mm universal inrunner twin burner and the 12 blade takes a 39mm universal inrunner twin burner. I'm fairly certain your outrunner takes a Freewing universal 90 mm outrunner. This is assuming you end up with an RC Geek burner.

Hi Hugh: I already pulled the trigger yesterday on the Multiburner AB and some scale looking printed exhausts for my existing 6S outrunner setup. I'm going to use this practice plane as a test bed for various add-ons, possibly even upgraded fan and ESC, etc., but will probably save all that stuff for a new plane someday that will have all these things already installed, and my embellishments already tested from my practice plane. If I do the Multiburner upgrade in the new plane, I'd use one of the others that RC Geek sells that would be compatible with it. Appreciate the advice.

Cheers

davegee

[davegee]

Here's a little easy scale add-on for scale geeks like me. The entire credit goes to Chris Wolfe of RC Geek. I was watching a video of his QF-4 drone mod, and noticed a few seconds showing the navy type nose gear door for carrier landings, versus the air force type that comes with the Freewing F-4 model. I emailed him about it, and Chris explained that he used a small piece of plastic to mask out the two square side by side landing lights, and instead added a hole for a single landing light and three small vertically spaced holes for the AOA (Angle Of Attack) lights that would be visible to the LSO guiding the pilot onto the deck, especially at night. Now, all three lights wouldn't be on, just one, but possibly quickly flashing from one to another to tell the LSO what the precise angle of attack is to get onto the carrier safely. He knows from the lights if the pilot is too fast, too slow, or right on speed and AOA (center orange light). I just have all three on for effect, right now.

The only change I did from Chris' design was to use a sheet of thin styrene to cover the entire existing door, just for a better scale appearance. It's just a foamie, but I like having fun with little details like this. Thanks, Chris!

davegee

[Hugh Wiedman]

Here's a little easy scale add-on for scale geeks like me. The entire credit goes to Chris Wolfe of RC Geek. I was watching a video of his QF-4 drone mod, and noticed a few seconds showing the navy type nose gear door for carrier landings, versus the air force type that comes with the Freewing F-4 model. I emailed him about it, and Chris explained that he used a small piece of plastic to mask out the two square side by side landing lights, and instead added a hole for a single landing light and three small vertically spaced holes for the AOA (Angle Of Attack) lights that would be visible to the LSO guiding the pilot onto the deck, especially at night. Now, all three lights wouldn't be on, just one, but possibly quickly flashing from one to another to tell the LSO what the precise angle of attack is to get onto the carrier safely. He knows from the lights if the pilot is too fast, too slow, or right on speed and AOA (center orange light). I just have all three on for effect, right now.

The only change I did from Chris' design was to use a sheet of thin styrene to cover the entire existing door, just for a better scale appearance. It's just a foamie, but I like having fun with little details like this. Thanks, Chris!

davegee

Very Cool! Now you need to do an operating landing hook like Elbee did on his F18!

[davegee]

Very Cool! Now you need to do an operating landing hook like Elbee did on his F18!

I actually did that on a number of airplanes. I had one on an F6F Hellcat, F-14, A-4, and I think one or two more. It was strictly for "show" for doing a low photo pass, which was fun. I don't think styrofoam will stop a 10 pound airplane flying 30-40 miles per hour at touchdown!

Elbee is amazing, the stuff he comes up with!

[Hugh Wiedman]

Elbee is amazing, the stuff he comes up with!

I'm still trying to determine which star system he came here from.

[davegee]

Some other planet that likes to fly model airplanes, I bet!!🤣

[Flamingo]

I just came from my flying field...

not really warm good weather, 10degC, wet and crosswind
and I loaded my heavy 6.2Ah w/890 grams
6s with 115A stock engine/outrunner

200m wet grass, after 150m acceration up hill only 60km/h, so I decided to cancel and rolled in higher grass

just a little bend on front gear

but what if not noticed by telemetry?
I now regulary have current and gps sensors, see pic

speed and capacity voices are on a switch and repeated every 2 sec, which can be configured

very useful, also for landing
if capacity or voltage are exceeded and approach speed reminds us to give throttle not to stall

I like our hobby, great planes such as F-4 and feel like a pilot🤩🤩🤩🤩

[locharrow]

"stock engine/outrunner" That's your problem Flamingo...get the 1835Kv Freewing 12 blade installed and you'll be in the pink.............

[Flamingo]

my 2nd F-4 has exactly your recommended set-up🤣
was impressed by Hugh Wiedmann's upgrades

[Flamingo]

[Flamingo]

old stock outrunner vs. 12b inrunner upgrade from motion rc

[themudduck]

Hey Flamingo, guten abend! You mentioned the battery and showed a picture of the Zippy 6200
Many of us are using the Roaring-Top 6250, they perform really well and are somewhat lighter.
I just thought I would show you for comparison:

Zippy 6200: Weight: 835g (including wire, plug & case)
Dimensions: 157x45x60mm

RT6250: Weight 803g (including wire, plug & case)
Dimensions (mm): 154x47x53mm