Official Freewing MiG-29 Fulcrum Twin 80mm Thread

[GliderGuy]

I've never had a gyro in my MiG, I have very few of my planes outfitted with one and other than the Apprentice I keep for training I think all are to keep the tail wag in check or the plane steady in yaw for warbirds..

I personally think the Mig is a great windy day plane, I find it very stable. Yes it will get into alpha lock but with the TVs it's a non issue though does increase the stress waiting that second or two for it to drop the nose.

I totally agree “IF” you have TV installed.

Mind didn’t….I flew her a lot on windy days and loved it….UNTIL I didn’t any more after the crash due to not having TV.

-GG

[Evan D]

I've never had a gyro in my MiG, I have very few of my planes outfitted with one and other than the Apprentice I keep for training I think all are to keep the tail wag in check or the plane steady in yaw for warbirds..

I personally think the Mig is a great windy day plane, I find it very stable. Yes it will get into alpha lock but with the TVs it's a non issue though does increase the stress waiting that second or two for it to drop the nose.

[jtconte]

Hmmm….I can’t comment about AS3X. I fly Futaba.

I will say that for all but the last 100 or so flights, I flew the MiG without a gyro. I liked it both with and without the gyro. But worth noting the gyro didn’t save her.

Why not? As stated in my prior post, effective angle of attack caused by gusts MAY NOT always induce a pitch change in the aircraft. Changes in effective angle of attack happens in an instant. The inertia of the plane slows any movement about the three axis of flight.

Gyros respond to aircraft movement! Gyros do not respond to instantaneous changes in effective angle of attack which can happen without a pitch change/movement of the aircraft.

Make your initial flights in good conditions. You’ll appreciate the way she flies…lands like a dream!

-GG

I gotcha. Thanks!

[GliderGuy]

GG- I’m trying to keep things in perspective ;-) My most visited club commonly has cross winds and swirling air at both ends of the runway. The reason I use an AS3X receiver in my L-39. It helps smooth out that foul wind on landings. Until I get several flights in and get a feel for this model, I’ll fly it at my other club. Seems like AS3X may make things worse for this model if it gets bounced around on landing.

Hmmm….I can’t comment about AS3X. I fly Futaba.

I will say that for all but the last 100 or so flights, I flew the MiG without a gyro. I liked it both with and without the gyro. But worth noting the gyro didn’t save her.

Why not? As stated in my prior post, effective angle of attack caused by gusts MAY NOT always induce a pitch change in the aircraft. Changes in effective angle of attack happens in an instant. The inertia of the plane slows any movement about the three axis of flight.

Gyros respond to aircraft movement! Gyros do not respond to instantaneous changes in effective angle of attack which can happen without a pitch change/movement of the aircraft.

Make your initial flights in good conditions. You’ll appreciate the way she flies…lands like a dream!

-GG

[jtconte]

GG- I’m trying to keep things in perspective ;-) My most visited club commonly has cross winds and swirling air at both ends of the runway. The reason I use an AS3X receiver in my L-39. It helps smooth out that foul wind on landings. Until I get several flights in and get a feel for this model, I’ll fly it at my other club. Seems like AS3X may make things worse for this model if it gets bounced around on landing. As for the TV kit, I have a DX9 but would have to get a 10 channel receiver. Maybe sooner than later.

[GliderGuy]

GG- thanks for all the detailed information. I was not planning on TV since I know little about it. Normally it’s used for aerobatics and not for landing but it sounds like this model needs to have it on all the time just in case?
To be honest, I liked the paint scheme of the TV version Motion offered more but was intimidated by the TV. Feeling disappointed.

No reason for disappointment. She’s a fun bird to fly! Enjoy her, but be cautioned about flying on gusty/windy days. And remain watchful for the “surprise” she may send your way.

Keep it in perspective! On over 2000 flights, she got into alpha lock a very few times.

You can order the TV kit, but you need a radio with more than 6 channels to use it.

I VERY MUCH enjoyed flying the MiG.

-GG

[jtconte]

GG- thanks for all the detailed information. I was not planning on TV since I know little about it. Normally it’s used for aerobatics and not for landing but it sounds like this model needs to have it on all the time just in case?
To be honest, I liked the paint scheme of the TV version Motion offered more but was intimidated by the TV. Feeling disappointed.

[GliderGuy]

The thrust vectoring is primarily to get out of "alpha lock". If you don't fly that way, you don't need to worry about it. Thermals isn't the problem. It's flying too slow in high alpha and the plane doesn't have enough punch to fly out of it. The vector nozzles helps to get the plane out of that high alpha attitude so it can begin to increase airspeed more effectively.

To add to this, twice I found my (no TV) MiG-29 in alpha lock while in level flight at 50% power in the pattern….moving along at a good clip. Slow flight is definitely a gotcha, but not the whole story.

The gust (thermal or otherwise) instantly increased the effective angle of attack (no fuselage pitch change) which put the MiG into alpha lock. Recovery was initiated by moving the throttle to zero and waiting for the nose to fall down. Two times I had the altitude, but the entry into alpha lock was a surprise. Thus, my precaution about thermal induced gusts….sharp edge gusts of any type are problematic.

The third, last and fatal time was on base leg on a windy/gusty day. I was fairly far out, so had added power to speed up and flatten the approach. I was moving along at a good clip. A gust hit her and did pitch the nose up a little, but the effective angle of attack was pushed beyond the critical angle of attack for alpha lock. Instantly recognized by the feel/response ( or lack of). Recovery was attempted, but she was too low.

When I fly full scale sailplanes and power planes, thermals on approach can be a gusty and a significant challenge. The stall warning will sometimes make an instant beep due to the instantaneous increase in effective angle of attack caused by the thermal winds (no pitch change may be noted).

For the MiG, an instantaneous increase in the effective angle of attack may be all she wrote, if you are down low.

Bottom line, without TV to help recover…gusts are not friendly for the MiG…linear wind gusts or thermal induced gusts. Since rising thermal air has an upward motion component, it tends to act in a way that will instantaneously increase the effective angle of attack (see my definition below).

-GG

Definition of effective angle of attack = The actual angle of attack at any instant between the chord line and relative wind. This may instantly be changed by directional gusts. Pilot Operating Handbooks suggest carrying extra airspeed in windy/gusty conditions. This extra airspeed reduces the effective angle of attack (do the trigonometric resolution of the vectors).

Flying slow increases both the angle of attack and exacerbates any instantaneous changes in the effective angle of attack, so slow flight on a gusty (linear or thermal gusty) day is not a good idea, for sure.

[xviper]

I forgot to say I do not have Thrust Vectoring. Didn't get to that point in the thread before I ordered the non-TV version. I may have to avoid one of my flying fields as it often has thermal stuff happening at either end of the runway. Thanks for the tips!

The thrust vectoring is primarily to get out of "alpha lock". If you don't fly that way, you don't need to worry about it. Thermals isn't the problem. It's flying too slow in high alpha and the plane doesn't have enough punch to fly out of it. The vector nozzles helps to get the plane out of that high alpha attitude so it can begin to increase airspeed more effectively.

[jtconte]

I forgot to say I do not have Thrust Vectoring. Didn't get to that point in the thread before I ordered the non-TV version. I may have to avoid one of my flying fields as it often has thermal stuff happening at either end of the runway. Thanks for the tips!

[GliderGuy]

My opinion is if you have TV you should be okay with that balance, maybe even a bit further aft, and set up. If not I'd recommend no more than 10mm behind the marks. Rudders are no issue. I would recommend the reflex at some point, it made a big difference in the horizontal stab neutral position.

Good luck with the maiden.

And….even more specifically….if you don’t have TV, GET IT!

I eventually lost my MiG because I didn’t install TV. It is not a matter of “if” but “when”.

No TV and no plans to install TV? Then don’t fly on windy/gusty days and don’t fly when there are thermal gusts.

All it takes is a gust to throw you into high alpha lock close to the ground and she’ll eat dirt. Without TV, it takes altitude and chopping the throttle to recover from alpha lock.

I loved my MiG! She flew GREAT! Flew her several thousand times. However, she is now a pile of mangled foam that I dig through for spare parts.

-GG

[Evan D]

My opinion is if you have TV you should be okay with that balance, maybe even a bit further aft, and set up. If not I'd recommend no more than 10mm behind the marks. Rudders are no issue. I would recommend the reflex at some point, it made a big difference in the horizontal stab neutral position. All this is for your first flights. After that adjust to suit your desires.

Good luck with the maiden.

[jtconte]

Hi, going to maiden this as soon as the windy weather lets up. I have read a lot in this thread but not every post. Appreciate all the info here! This has the upgraded elevator servos, arms, rods, etc.. This is my 2nd EDF. Been flying the FW L-39. This is my first twin verticals plane and when checking the rudder throws, the left and right rudders don't match each other. Traveling right, the right rudder travels further than the left rudder. Opposite when traveling left. Since they are Y'd, just live with it? Was going to CG about 10mm aft of the mark, ailerons on a low rate(50% of high) to start, all else by book high rates. I'm using SMC 5300 HV's in the rear and center locations. Ferrite chokes on each ESC battery wire pairs. Relocated the UBEC to rear wing root pocket to empty front bay for an AR637T (its antenna's at 90 degrees to each other) with a SRXL2 remote all the way into the nose. Will do extensive range testing at the field. Debating about 1-2mm of reflex in the ailerons and flaps for the maiden. Anything else to consider?

[xviper]

Like in the movie "Chronicles of Riddick" ................. Judy Dench's character ................ "What is the odds of that?"

[Elbee]

dbirds2 please self-edit OR self-delete your posts over the last 24 hours in the forums. Clearly, I do not need to explain why. Respectfully, LB

[SanExup]

Hard to say but it looked like alpha lock followed by a helmet fire.

[dbirds2]

Don't feed the tr... the smack helo guy.

Dont worry I wont feed the tr.. the chickenstrip racebike guy

[dbirds2]

You guys still don't have him on IGNORE? Shouldn't quote him either. That way, nothing he posts will show. Eventually, the mods will see what he's doing and deal with it.

I was wondering from your post here about control. IM pretty sure I know your types. JUst look at the words here. I havent said anything to anyone. I have only voiced my displeasure with a few certain planes and you dont like it. Well tough........ dont read or respond but basically begging for moderators to shut someone down cause you dont like the content. Well that shows exactly the type of person you are. I can think of two words communism and fascism. Stuff dont fly in america....

[dbirds2]

Yeah...it clearly can't fly! As is shown in this video...

I put the 2200kv xfly motors in the bird yesterday took 4 flights today and actually performed quite well. Probably performed the best flat spin ive done or seen in a long time. To the trolls who I never asked for or jumped their posts dont like someone elses posts dont comment. its pretty simple

[xviper]

You guys still don't have him on IGNORE? Shouldn't quote him either. That way, nothing he posts will show. Eventually, the mods will see what he's doing and deal with it.