Official Freewing MiG-29 Fulcrum Twin 80mm Thread

[1horse59]

What happened to the grass ops video, is there one, or did I miss it?

[Gringotuerto]

How about we discuss Pros/Cons of battery selections for this bird.

Hey thanks for the useful table! One thing I notice from looking over your table is that 4500mAh 40C is almost the same weight as 4000mAh 60C (1.28kg). So you could probably use either option with almost the same battery position. 4500 x 40C is still a decent 190A, which seems enough. It is less margin than the 240A in the other case (4Ah x 60C), but both seem to be a safe margin above the actual operating point. Hmmm...that might be a useful column in the table (C rating x capacity). Anyway, thanks for taking the time to do this and post it.

[Dirty Dee]

I imagine this is the result of the pre-order? All Admiral packs 4k and larger are out of stock practically. I imagine the warehouse has one shelf completely empty with only a single 6000 pack sitting there

[Airguardian]

One of the first things I thought when I saw the new bird required two batts is that all that MRC may not earn from direct bird sales, they would indeed get it from Li-Po sales instead, lol.

[Evan D]

I'm amazed at how many that have FW EDFs only fly, maybe only know, Admiral batteries. Also amazed at how many that have HH planes don't even know Motion exists.

[Jdcrow]

some table updates and additional batteries added.

I know it doesnt include all. I just drafted it around the most common I use, have used, consider using.

Comps by Weight (low to high)

Weight Comparison		Under 1350gr/3 lbs		Design Reference Packs		1400gr/3lbs - 1562gr/3.44lbs		Over 1600gr/3.5lbs
Brand	Cells	1	Capacity	C-Rating	Weight Gr	Weight Oz	Dual Pack Wt oz	Dual Pack Wt lbs	Price	2 Pack Price	Comment Pros/Cons
RCJetWerx	6s		4000	50	545	19.22	1090	2.40	79	158	Lightest Pair and 50c/100c burst. Low Cost for pair
Admiral	6s		4000	40	578	20.39	1156	2.55	80	155
Spektrum	6s	Smart	4000	50	580	20.46	1160	2.56	99	198	Close C compared to design reference pack. 10% lighter than dual reference packs
Admiral	6s		4500	40	640	22.58	1280	2.82	90	178	nearly same weight as design reference pack. Good c at 40c/80c Burst. 500 more mAh than reference packs
Admiral	6s	Pro	4000	60	642	22.65	1284	2.83	95	190	Mig 29 Designed around this pack
Spektrum	6s	Smart	5000	50	660	23.28	1320	2.91	125	250	Lightest pair of the 5000mAh packs. Good C at 50c/100c Burst. Hight end of cost of the 5000mAh options
RoaringTop	6s		4500	45	666	23.49	1332	2.94	80	160
Spektrum	6s	Smart	5000	100	670	23.63	1340	2.95	160	320	Highest C rating at 100/200c burst, but at cost for pair at $320
RoaringTop	6s		5000	35	711	25.08	1422	3.13	75	150	Lowest Cost for 2 and 5000mAh. Low end of C rating at 35c/70c burst
Admiral	6s		5000	50	732	25.82	1464	3.23	109	208
RoaringTop	6s		5000	45	755	26.63	1510	3.33	90	180
RoaringTop	6s		5800	35	780	27.51	1560	3.44	90	180
RoaringTop	6s		5000	70	781	27.55	1562	3.44	117	234	Heaviest of the 5000mAh packs
RoaringTop	6s		5500	45	800	28.22	1600	3.53	95	190
RoaringTop	6s		6250	35	803	28.32	1606	3.54	92	184
RCJetWerx	6s		6000	60	820	28.93	1640	3.62	125	250
RoaringTop	6s		5500	70	825	29.10	1650	3.64	120	240
Admiral	6s	Pro	6000	50	844	29.77	1688	3.72	124	237	1 of top three heaviest over 3-2/3 lbs
Admiral	6s	Carbon	5100	70	866	30.55	1732	3.82	119	229	1 of top three heaviest over 3-2/3 lbs
RoaringTop	6s		5100	80	880	31.04	1760	3.88	145	290	2nd highest cost at $290. Heaviest pair nearly at nearly 4 lbs

[Jdcrow]

Cost by Cost Comparison (US$)

Cost Comparison		Under $200/Pr		Design Reference Packs		$200-$300		Over $300
Brand	Cells	Descriptor	Capacity	C-Rating	Weight Gr	Weight Oz	Dual Pack Wt oz	Dual Pack Wt lbs	Price	2 Pack Price	Comment Pros/Cons
RoaringTop	6s		5000	35	711	25.08	1422	3.13	75	150	Lowest Cost for 2 and 5000mAh. Low end of C rating at 35c/70c burst
Admiral	6s		4000	40	578	20.39	1156	2.55	80	155
RCJetWerx	6s		4000	50	545	19.22	1090	2.40	79	158	Lightest Pair and 50c/100c burst. Low Cost for pair
RoaringTop	6s		4500	45	666	23.49	1332	2.94	80	160
Admiral	6s		4500	40	640	22.58	1280	2.82	90	178	nearly same weight as design reference pack. Good c at 40c/80c Burst. 500 more mAh than reference packs
RoaringTop	6s		5000	45	755	26.63	1510	3.33	90	180
RoaringTop	6s		5800	35	780	27.51	1560	3.44	90	180
RoaringTop	6s		6250	35	803	28.32	1606	3.54	92	184
Admiral	6s	Pro	4000	60	642	22.65	1284	2.83	95	190	Mig 29 Designed around this pack
RoaringTop	6s		5500	45	800	28.22	1600	3.53	95	190
Spektrum	6s	Smart	4000	50	580	20.46	1160	2.56	99	198	Close C compared to design reference pack. 10% lighter than dual reference packs
Admiral	6s		5000	50	732	25.82	1464	3.23	109	208
Admiral	6s	Carbon	5100	70	866	30.55	1732	3.82	119	229	1 of top three heaviest over 3-2/3 lbs
RoaringTop	6s		5000	70	781	27.55	1562	3.44	117	234	Heaviest of the 5000mAh packs
Admiral	6s	Pro	6000	50	844	29.77	1688	3.72	124	237	1 of top three heaviest over 3-2/3 lbs
RoaringTop	6s		5500	70	825	29.10	1650	3.64	120	240
Spektrum	6s	Smart	5000	50	660	23.28	1320	2.91	125	250	Lightest pair of the 5000mAh packs. Good C at 50c/100c Burst. Hight end of cost of the 5000mAh options
RCJetWerx	6s		6000	60	820	28.93	1640	3.62	125	250
RoaringTop	6s		5100	80	880	31.04	1760	3.88	145	290	2nd highest cost at $290. Heaviest pair nearly at nearly 4 lbs
Spektrum	6s	Smart	5000	100	670	23.63	1340	2.95	160	320	Highest C rating at 100/200c burst, but at cost for pair at $320

[Jdcrow]

Comps by Capacity (low to high)

Capacity (mAh) Comparison		Under 5000 mAh		Design Reference Packs		5100 - 5900 mAh		Over 6000 mAh
Brand	Cells	Descriptor	Capacity	C-Rating	Weight Gr	Weight Oz	Dual Pack Wt oz	Dual Pack Wt lbs	Price	2 Pack Price	Comment Pros/Cons
Admiral	6s		4000	40	578	20.39	1156	2.55	80	155
RCJetWerx	6s		4000	50	545	19.22	1090	2.40	79	158	Lightest Pair and 50c/100c burst. Low Cost for pair
Admiral	6s	Pro	4000	60	642	22.65	1284	2.83	95	190	Mig 29 Designed around this pack
Spektrum	6s	Smart	4000	50	580	20.46	1160	2.56	99	198	Close C compared to design reference pack. 10% lighter than dual reference packs
RoaringTop	6s		4500	45	666	23.49	1332	2.94	80	160
Admiral	6s		4500	40	640	22.58	1280	2.82	90	178	nearly same weight as design reference pack. Good c at 40c/80c Burst. 500 more mAh than reference packs
RoaringTop	6s		5000	35	711	25.08	1422	3.13	75	150	Lowest Cost for 2 and 5000mAh. Low end of C rating at 35c/70c burst
RoaringTop	6s		5000	45	755	26.63	1510	3.33	90	180
Admiral	6s		5000	50	732	25.82	1464	3.23	109	208
RoaringTop	6s		5000	70	781	27.55	1562	3.44	117	234	Heaviest of the 5000mAh packs
Spektrum	6s	Smart	5000	50	660	23.28	1320	2.91	125	250	Lightest pair of the 5000mAh packs. Good C at 50c/100c Burst. Hight end of cost of the 5000mAh options
Spektrum	6s	Smart	5000	100	670	23.63	1340	2.95	160	320	Highest C rating at 100/200c burst, but at cost for pair at $320
Admiral	6s	Carbon	5100	70	866	30.55	1732	3.82	119	229	1 of top three heaviest over 3-2/3 lbs
RoaringTop	6s		5100	80	880	31.04	1760	3.88	145	290	2nd highest cost at $290. Heaviest pair nearly at nearly 4 lbs
RoaringTop	6s		5500	45	800	28.22	1600	3.53	95	190
RoaringTop	6s		5500	70	825	29.10	1650	3.64	120	240
RoaringTop	6s		5800	35	780	27.51	1560	3.44	90	180
Admiral	6s	Pro	6000	50	844	29.77	1688	3.72	124	237	1 of top three heaviest over 3-2/3 lbs
RCJetWerx	6s		6000	60	820	28.93	1640	3.62	125	250
RoaringTop	6s		6250	35	803	28.32	1606	3.54	92	184

[Jdcrow]

and Comps by C Rating, Low to high

C Rating Comparison		Under 40c/90c Burst		Design Reference Packs		45c/90c Burst - 50c/100cBurst		Over 50c/100c Burst
Brand	Cells	Descriptor	Capacity	C-Rating	Weight Gr	Weight Oz	Dual Pack Wt oz	Dual Pack Wt lbs	Price	2 Pack Price	Comment Pros/Cons
RoaringTop	6s		5000	35	711	25.08	1422	3.13	75	150	Lowest Cost for 2 and 5000mAh. Low end of C rating at 35c/70c burst
RoaringTop	6s		5800	35	780	27.51	1560	3.44	90	180
RoaringTop	6s		6250	35	803	28.32	1606	3.54	92	184
Admiral	6s		4000	40	578	20.39	1156	2.55	80	155
Admiral	6s		4500	40	640	22.58	1280	2.82	90	178	nearly same weight as design reference pack. Good c at 40c/80c Burst. 500 more mAh than reference packs
RoaringTop	6s		4500	45	666	23.49	1332	2.94	80	160
RoaringTop	6s		5000	45	755	26.63	1510	3.33	90	180
RoaringTop	6s		5500	45	800	28.22	1600	3.53	95	190
RCJetWerx	6s		4000	50	545	19.22	1090	2.40	79	158	Lightest Pair and 50c/100c burst. Low Cost for pair
Spektrum	6s	Smart	4000	50	580	20.46	1160	2.56	99	198	Close C compared to design reference pack. 10% lighter than dual reference packs
Admiral	6s		5000	50	732	25.82	1464	3.23	109	208
Spektrum	6s	Smart	5000	50	660	23.28	1320	2.91	125	250	Lightest pair of the 5000mAh packs. Good C at 50c/100c Burst. Hight end of cost of the 5000mAh options
Admiral	6s	Pro	6000	50	844	29.77	1688	3.72	124	237	1 of top three heaviest over 3-2/3 lbs
Admiral	6s	Pro	4000	60	642	22.65	1284	2.83	95	190	Mig 29 Designed around this pack
RCJetWerx	6s		6000	60	820	28.93	1640	3.62	125	250
RoaringTop	6s		5000	70	781	27.55	1562	3.44	117	234	Heaviest of the 5000mAh packs
Admiral	6s	Carbon	5100	70	866	30.55	1732	3.82	119	229	1 of top three heaviest over 3-2/3 lbs
RoaringTop	6s		5500	70	825	29.10	1650	3.64	120	240
RoaringTop	6s		5100	80	880	31.04	1760	3.88	145	290	2nd highest cost at $290. Heaviest pair nearly at nearly 4 lbs
Spektrum	6s	Smart	5000	100	670	23.63	1340	2.95	160	320	Highest C rating at 100/200c burst, but at cost for pair at $320

[Jdcrow]

What i dont have is a good chart of IR ratings. The Spektrum Low IR really surprised me on their packs i have. A lot of RoaringTops are used at my club, but most ive seen have some puff to them. Although i havent used them, the puff would shy me away from the lower C versions.

I haven't had puff issues with either the Admirals (regular and pro) ive owned. In fact, my 4s 2200 Pro has well over 230 cycles on it and i fly my eFlite P-39 hard with it. I have also had no such issues from the RCJetWerx 4000's i own.

[mshagg]

I'd be inclined to overlay considerations with the thorough testing that is completed on the other forum.

The spektrum packs are light because you cant cheat the chemistry - the 100C pack tests at 30C, which is adequate, but makes a mockery of HH's pricing, when the HRB 50C pack performs the same for half the price. There's a reason the only people using the smart packs are youtube influencers who get them for free lol. If your pack weighs less than 800g, it's probably going to be disappointing. It's shocking how many batteries dont even make the 35C testing list because they cant sustain the load.

Stonking big C ratings are not critical for this jet like they are for a 90mm, but presumably people will use their batteries in other jets, so be wise with your money :)

[Jdcrow]

I'd be inclined to overlay considerations with the thorough testing that is completed on the other forum.

The spektrum packs are light because you cant cheat the chemistry - the 100C pack tests at 30C, which is adequate, but makes a mockery of HH's pricing, when the HRB 50C pack performs the same for half the price. There's a reason the only people using the smart packs are youtube influencers who get them for free lol. If your pack weighs less than 800g, it's probably going to be disappointing.

Stonking big C ratings are not critical for this jet like they are for a 90mm, but presumably people will use their batteries in other jets!

i pay more attention to IR than anything when i can. If the power can flow cleanly, and sufficiently, the C bragging doesnt matter

when we were rc drag racing, we would kill batteries getting them to perform at low IR. 3c Charge rates and Discharging at 40Amps to get the burst performance we needed for a 2 second race pass.

Many pilots in my circle love the HRB cells they have. I have no objection to them. Just have had good results from Admirals, RCJetWerx, and the 1 Spektrum Smart Pack 4000 i own. Almost exclusively in EDF's

[mshagg]

i pay more attention to IR than anything when i can. If the power can flow cleanly, and sufficiently, the C bragging doesnt matter

A good indicator of lifespan in my experience as well - if they start low they stay low for a longer time!

Admirals, roaring top, RCjetwerx are all unavailable in my country which is a shame given they are so popular in the EDF community. Thankfully HRB and CHNL have warehouses here and sell direct to market.

[crxmanpat]

One correction on your entries for the RT 5800 35C. Pack cost is $86, so $172 for a pair. You have $180.

[Wrthog]

HRB carbons rock! That’s what I’m going with I have 8 pairs ready to roll!

[Mizer67]

A good indicator of lifespan in my experience as well - if they start low they stay low for a longer time!

Admirals, roaring top, RCjetwerx are all unavailable in my country which is a shame given they are so popular in the EDF community. Thankfully HRB and CHNL have warehouses here and sell direct to market.

The Turnigy 5000 60C and 4000 60Cs have been excellent for me. 820 grams and 663 grams respectively, so a bit portly, but they stay cool and don't sag as much or as quickly. If I didn't have access to other great options, that's probably all I'd fly. They're a good value. The 5000's are $150/pair and the 4000s are $112/pair. Mine have shipped with IRs <=6 total (1 per cell avg).

I've flown HRB 60Cs and the CNHL 65C and 40C Blacks and they're not as good by a fair margin, which I is also indicated by the testing on the other forum. HRB IRs are lower than CNHL in my experience. The 65C are okay, but the 40C are terrible. They are lighter though at 758 - 743 grams respectively.

I have a pair of the Liperior 75C's which are heavy at 856 grams, but also seem to perform well with very low IRs - mine total 5 and 6 for all six cells (1 ohm avg). They were about $122/pair. I read they were working on shipping to Australia.

[Hugh Wiedman]

What i dont have is a good chart of IR ratings. The Spektrum Low IR really surprised me on their packs i have. A lot of RoaringTops are used at my club, but most ive seen have some puff to them. Although i havent used them, the puff would shy me away from the lower C versions.

I haven't had puff issues with either the Admirals (regular and pro) ive owned. In fact, my 4s 2200 Pro has well over 230 cycles on it and i fly my eFlite P-39 hard with it. I have also had no such issues from the RCJetWerx 4000's i own.

Excellent data Jdcrow . I've done a lot of testing of the batteries myself using the Progressive RC Internal Resistance meter, as well as bench testing on various EDF's with those batteries and a GT Power meter for Amps and Watts drawn. Posted some info on a thread I started under batteries, "Lipo Wars".

I did find that Admirals were a bit behind on IR to Roaring Top and HRB, but also know they are in the process of upgrading their Lipo's (probably why they are out of stock of most of them) and expect great things from them in the near future. MRC, as far as I'm concerned, is the most responsible shop and they always strive to serve us the absolute best they can. In summary on IR (listing total IR range of at least 10 batteries of each type, although I also have the IR numbers for each individual cell) are as follows, from lowest IR to highest. I also have the actual C the meter gives, but not listing it, suffice it to say it's anywhere from 40% to 60% of advertised C, with it being closer to tested C at lower rated batteries and further from the truth on higher C advertised batteries:

RT 5500mah 6S 70C Total IR: 17.8 to 19.4
HRB 6000mah 6S 50C Total IR: 17.8 to 19.5
HobbyStar 8000mah 6S 100C Total IR: 20.4 to 21.8 (this one surprised me, weight is only 908 g, and forget the 100C but only slightly lower actual C than RT or HRB but at $179 per battery it better fix me a filet every night and tuck me in)
RT 6250mah 6S 35C Total IR: 24.1 to 25.9
Admiral 6000mah 6S 50C Pro Total IR: 25.5 to 27.6
Admiral 5000mah 6S 50C Total IR: 28.5 to 30.5
Admiral 4000mah 6S 40C Total IR: 31.2 to 36.3
Admiral 3300mah 6S 30C Total IR: 40.9 to 43.3

As you can guess, the table also goes from highest tested C to lowest tested C, despite what the advertised C is. I also found something interesting in testing with the power meter. The inrunners I have perform much better the higher the actual C, where the outrunners still do better, but not significantly. I have no idea why, maybe a coincidence, but I'm able to use a lower C battery with higher mah in the outrunners with no apparent loss in take-off thrust (which is the only time I really need the punch to get off of grass).

[Jdcrow]

One correction on your entries for the RT 5800 35C. Pack cost is $86, so $172 for a pair. You have $180.

i took the data and pricing straight from Andy's website. I think there was a price change on the most recent arrivals.

https://www.rcjetwerx.com

https://rcjetwerx.com/product/rt-6s-5800-35c/

[Jdcrow]

ok...one last Venn Diagram style brain twister.

+/- Range of Design Reference Pack Weight

% of Design Pack Weight		Within +/- 10%		Design Reference Packs		Range +/- 10% to +/- 20%		Over +/- 20%
Brand	Cells	Descriptor	Capacity	C-Rating	Weight Gr	Weight Oz	Dual Pack Wt oz	Dual Pack Wt lbs	Price	2 Pack Price	Comment Pros/Cons	Comment Pros/Cons
RCJetWerx	6s		4000	50	545	19.22	1090	2.40	79	158	Lightest Pair and 50c/100c burst. Low Cost for pair	84.81%
Admiral	6s		4000	40	578	20.39	1156	2.55	80	155		90.11%
Spektrum	6s	Smart	4000	50	580	20.46	1160	2.56	99	198	Close C compared to design reference pack. 10% lighter than dual reference packs	90.46%
Admiral	6s		4500	40	640	22.58	1280	2.82	90	178	nearly same weight as design reference pack. Good c at 40c/80c Burst. 500 more mAh than reference packs	99.65%
Admiral	6s	Pro	4000	60	642	22.65	1284	2.83	95	190	Mig 29 Designed around this pack	100.00%
RoaringTop	6s		4500	45	666	23.49	1332	2.94	80	160		103.89%
Spektrum	6s	Smart	5000	100	670	23.63	1340	2.95	160	320	Highest C rating at 100/200c burst, but at cost for pair at $320	104.24%
RoaringTop	6s		5000	35	711	25.08	1422	3.13	75	150	Lowest Cost for 2 and 5000mAh. Low end of C rating at 35c/70c burst	110.60%
Admiral	6s		5000	50	732	25.82	1464	3.23	109	208		114.13%
RoaringTop	6s		5000	45	755	26.63	1510	3.33	90	180		117.67%
RoaringTop	6s		5800	35	780	27.51	1560	3.44	90	180		121.55%
RoaringTop	6s		5000	70	781	27.55	1562	3.44	117	234	Heaviest of the 5000mAh packs	121.63%
RoaringTop	6s		5500	45	800	28.22	1600	3.53	95	190		124.73%
RoaringTop	6s		6250	35	803	28.32	1606	3.54	92	184		125.09%
RCJetWerx	6s		6000	60	820	28.93	1640	3.62	125	250		127.92%
RoaringTop	6s		5500	70	825	29.10	1650	3.64	120	240		128.62%
Spektrum	6s	Smart	5000	50	660	23.28	1320	2.91	125	250	Lightest pair of the 5000mAh packs. Good C at 50c/100c Burst. Hight end of cost of the 5000mAh options	131.45%
Admiral	6s	Pro	6000	50	844	29.77	1688	3.72	124	237	1 of top three heaviest over 3-2/3 lbs	131.45%
Admiral	6s	Carbon	5100	70	866	30.55	1732	3.82	119	229	1 of top three heaviest over 3-2/3 lbs	134.98%
RoaringTop	6s		5100	80	880	31.04	1760	3.88	145	290	2nd highest cost at $290. Heaviest pair nearly at nearly 4 lbs	137.10%

[crxmanpat]

i took the data and pricing straight from Andy's website. I think there was a price change on the most recent arrivals.

www.rcjetwerx.com

https://rcjetwerx.com/product/rt-6s-5800-35c/

The official Roaring Top USA site (located in LA) is typically better on pricing: roaringtopusa.com