Official Freewing MiG-29 Fulcrum Twin 80mm Thread

[4qr1hu9n7]

Flying the Mig-9 seems to be much more work and less enjoyment. These issues can show them selves at any time in any attitude. Starting to reconsider owning one. Instead of looking forward to a successful flight, I have to watch every stick input to avoid getting into trouble. It's not an airplane to fly for enjoyment.

[locharrow]

Flying the Mig-9 seems to be much more work and less enjoyment. These issues can show them selves at any time in any attitude. Starting to reconsider owning one. Instead of looking forward to a successful flight, I have to watch every stick input to avoid getting into trouble. It's not an airplane to fly for enjoyment.

Don't worry.... it's not the model.....and it's not that J pushes the boundaries.......... he just flies on the wrong side of them!

[Airguardian]

Hahaha!
Right on!

Flying INSIDE the envelope is too mainstream!

Flying the Mig-9 seems to be much more work and less enjoyment. These issues can show themselves at any time in any attitude. Starting to reconsider owning one. Instead of looking forward to a successful flight, I have to watch every stick input to avoid getting into trouble. It's not an airplane to fly for enjoyment.

Then you are taking away the wrong stuff.
This model is amazing, and super easy to land for the most part.
If in doubts about your skills, throw in the thrust vectoring nozzles and you'll be safe from getting locked in high alpha.

[GliderGuy]

Flying the Mig-9 seems to be much more work and less enjoyment. These issues can show them selves at any time in any attitude. Starting to reconsider owning one. Instead of looking forward to a successful flight, I have to watch every stick input to avoid getting into trouble. It's not an airplane to fly for enjoyment.

Every airplane can bite you! The MiG is by far my favorite EDF to fly. Yes…there are corners of the flight envelope that demand respect and attention, but once you have the recovery method memorized (and you can recognize the signs that you are at or getting near a bad corner), it is such a FUN, enjoyable, and amazing bird to fly.

Take away the knowledge in this thread…not any apprehension. That being said, each must evaluate their own skill level.

Consider this….I once flew a full scale sailplane that had a tendency to enter into a spin when in a thermalling turn and a thermal gust would hit. Loved the performance of that sailplane and loved to fly it…but I gave her my utmost respect and attention when working gusty thermals.

-GG

[fredmdbud]

“Alpha lock” doesn’t seem to be an issue at the recommended CG. Hmmmmmmm.

[mshagg]

Flying the Mig-9 seems to be much more work and less enjoyment. These issues can show them selves at any time in any attitude. Starting to reconsider owning one. Instead of looking forward to a successful flight, I have to watch every stick input to avoid getting into trouble. It's not an airplane to fly for enjoyment.

It's a big enough missile that a bit of work is warranted. Therein lies the reward.

As alpha says, every time we take off we defy gravity!

[GliderGuy]

“Alpha lock” doesn’t seem to be an issue at the recommended CG. Hmmmmmmm.

More related to the thrust line. Get it in….can’t get it out with power. AND application of high power at the wrong time / airspeed will put you in a high alpha situation…if not even a back flip. Go arounds must be done by being gentle on the throttle.

-GG

[Evan D]

While this is one awesome plane and I take it out regularly it still is one that makes me nervous and if I do anything at a lower airspeed I do it a few mistakes high. Why? Even with every mod I can think of to not have it do the "alpha lock" it still does it now and then. Though not unexpected because I know the things that lead to it, most common is a flip to a high alpha hover. If I start my pull out of the flip just before the nose comes up to level it's just fine.

And still after all the flights and with TV I still find time it takes too long to get out of the lock. So I do things higher with this than any other plane I have.

At one time I was frustrated by this plane and put it up for sale. I no longer have it for sale and enjoy flying it but....

It's a big enough missile that a bit of work is warranted. Therein lies the reward.

As alpha says, every time we take off we defy gravity!

[kallend]

“Alpha lock” doesn’t seem to be an issue at the recommended CG. Hmmmmmmm.

But that brings other problems.

However, the factory test pilots and the fan-boys did make some slick marketing videos.

[xviper]

A week ago, a fellow flyer had his Mig29 out to play. He flies all his EDFs (and turbines) extremely well, doing stuff that I would never even dream of attempting. Anyway, he was playing with high alpha flight (up high) with his Mig when it got into that attitude. No matter what power he applied to the plane, it would not come out of it (control surfaces did nothing). It would just maintain that AoA and over a period of what seemed like almost 30 seconds, continued to sink with slight forward movement (relative to the ground) and splashed down into the middle of a small pond. A Kayak became a valuable accessory.
In discussion afterwards, we came to a conclusion that VT nozzles would have saved his plane. Flying my SebArt Mig29 with stock VT, I've done back flips and front flips from high alpha with surprising ease. It was from that experience that I installed the nozzles on my FW Mig before even maidening it. The FW is a big, heavy brute and when in extreme high alpha with little to no airspeed, nothing is going to move that thing unless it has VT.

[GliderGuy]

Xviper, Sorry for his loss. However, as has been well documented in this thread and with video demos….power must be chopped completely before the nose will drop and recovery can be made….regardless of CG at factory recommended or aft of it.

Your description is spot on. That’s the way she acts.

The good news is, if you chop the power the nose will drop and control returns. Hope you have the altitude!

VT should help speed the recovery, but I don’t have VT and have SUCCESSFULLY gotten out of high alpha lock a number of times. Airguardian is heard to quickly pulse the throttle in some of his videos to speed the recovery along. I haven’t tried that.

Watch AG’s many videos and you will see what the recovery requires. He gets in and out of high alpha lock on numerous occasions.

-GG

[Airguardian]

Sooooo smooth! Suggestion for a future video: Inset showing your movements of the sticks in synch with the plane’s motion.

There are videos showing pilots constantly jockeying the sticks (being not smooth) who could use your smoothness of control as evidence that stick jostling isn’t the way to do it correctly.

My dad was a WWII flight instructor and when came time to teach me to fly full scale planes, he harped on being a smooth pilot.

Well, I haven't come around to making one with the MiG just yet, but I just made a Gripen one instead... so for what it's worth...

Hopefully the MiG-29 Tx Split Screen video is next!

“Alpha lock” doesn’t seem to be an issue at the recommended CG. Hmmmmmmm.

But it is.
It's just even harder to deal with with more aft CG, which anyway I would still recommend.

[xviper]

Xviper, Sorry for his loss. However, as has been well documented in this thread and with video demos….power must be chopped completely before the nose will drop and recovery can be made….regardless of CG at factory recommended or aft of it.

Your description is spot on. That’s the way she acts.
-GG

I think he's really good at fixing busted planes. The only issue could be the electronics. I know for a fact that some of the electronics don't like taking a prolonged bath. Another friend witnessed the whole event and said the pilot tried almost everything and nothing seemed to work. It just fell in "slow mo". He didn't mention if "everything" included chopping the throttle.

[Airguardian]

The good news is, if you chop the power the nose will drop and control returns. Hope you have the altitude!

VT should help speed the recovery, but I don’t have VT and have SUCCESSFULLY gotten out of high alpha lock a number of times. Airguardian is heard to quickly pulse the throttle in some of his videos to speed the recovery along. I haven’t tried that.

Watch AG’s many videos and you will see what the recovery requires. He gets in and out of high alpha lock on numerous occasions.

Under some very particular conditions, (particularly with aft CG setups as mine when I am running the lighter 4Ah packs), cutting throttle may not cut it if the high alpha lock developed completely.

If that's the case, as mentioned, short throttle bursts seem the way to proceed for me.
It also often helps if you use counter roll-yaw (tailerons on, large throws) to induce a spin so you get the nose to point sideways, then down.... then arrest the spin through neutralizing commands or opposite roll/yaw and regain speed (as long as you still have enough altitude).
Chopping throttle works best when the jet got stuck at really high AoA with really nose-high attitude to horizon (as in trying to make a backflip but failing to complete it).
When the jet gets into a more 'level to horizon' descending high alpha lock, then the throttle pulsing and/or spin induction is the preferred recovery for me.

With CG forward enough, the chopping throttle method works almost 100% of the times, that's the difference.

[fredmdbud]

I've safely done this with the MiG-29 (no thrust vectoring) at/near the recommended CG - this would certainly get into "alpha lock" with the CG set back too far.

[GliderGuy]

….pilot tried almost everything and nothing seemed to work. It just fell in "slow mo"..

Again….Spot on description. It is a helpless feeling when no aerodynamic control input has any effect. I rode my first one down from many mistakes high….nada…nothing….no response. I was attempting (incorrectly) to blast her out with power while watching her fall.

When I made up my mind that a crash was gonna happen, I cut power to minimize the damage. LOL - Next thing I saw….she dropped the nose and began to fly. Of course, my next move was to apply power and get away from Mother Earth. Overdoing it put me right back into the high alpha lock. OMG! So I had to chop the throttle again…much closer to the ground this time. But, a second save was made. WHEW!

A “way over there, way down low” radio range check was unintentionally accomplished through all this. UGH!!! Returning home to post on this thread and the responses at that time were basically ”YEP…this has been posted about!” Many subsequent posts have followed with recovery methods shared. THANK YOU ALL who posted this VERY helpful information.

-GG

[Tigerman]

Well I have finally given up any hope of obtaining the Freewing Mig 29 here in Europe .it must be coming up to almost a year now it has been Out Of Stock .To me the fact that it has been Out Of Stock now for almost a year tells me it has been discontinued here in Europe. Shame on you Motion RC .Europe must be the poor cousin ,it has been In Stock in the USA now for ages .but a no show over here in Europe .Still the good news is it has saved me £600 to spend on something else

[locharrow]

Well I have finally given up any hope of obtaining the Freewing Mig 29 here in Europe .it must be coming up to almost a year now it has been Out Of Stock .To me the fact that it has been Out Of Stock now for almost a year tells me it has been discontinued here in Europe. Shame on you Motion RC .Europe must be the poor cousin ,it has been In Stock in the USA now for ages .but a no show over here in Europe .Still the good news is it has saved me £600 to spend on something else

Flit Model in China have them with 23g servos in the tail. Very reputable outfit, three to four weeks tracked delivery to UK. I bought two F/wing F4s from them. I 'm waiting on the 30gm version but getting impatient. Might just buy the 23gm version and stuff in bigger servos. A lot of money to spend and have to buy add-ons as well. Particularly for a Scotsman !!

[Hugh Wiedman]

Flit Model in China have them with 23g servos in the tail. Very reputable outfit, three to four weeks tracked delivery to UK. I bought two F/wing F4s from them. I 'm waiting on the 30gm version but getting impatient. Might just buy the 23gm version and stuff in bigger servos. A lot of money to spend and have to buy add-ons as well. Particularly for a Scotsman !!

A lot for any of us, Scotsman or not. Got the 30gm servos when I ordered mine in May, 2 days before the price increase , but I had already purchased the Promodeler servos and used them instead. But the best part of the upgrade "package" that they started sending in May was the beefed up control rod with larger ball link connectors and the heavier elevator surface horns and aluminum servo arms that fortunately fit on my Promodeler servos. Surprised that little "upgrade" package is not available in Europe piece by piece, or is it?

[Skosh25]

Had an awesome time with my MiG and L-39 last night. Perfect weather and field all to myself.