Official Freewing 90mm F-16 Falcon Thread

[Hugh Wiedman]

Flaperons activated! I have 15mm set for takeoff and around 18/20mm for landing...If the weather holds I will attempt another sortie, this time with video!

Outstanding airman, carry on, can't wait for your video.

[Aros]

Flaperons activated! I have 15mm set for takeoff and around 18/20mm for landing...If the weather holds I will attempt another sortie, this time with video!

[Hugh Wiedman]

Don't forget the ailerons run the entire length of the trailing edge, so a little flap deflection gives a lot of extra lift.

[Hugh Wiedman]

15mm of flaperons at take off will ease the spookyness.

[Aros]

I will say it again and not being a know it all, I have flown this jet for 3yrs and you don't need any mixes of any kind, if you choose to do so that is great, these guys have all the mixes down and working, and that is fine, but if you stay with your CG around 118mm-120mm you will nail the landings after a little practice, you have to slow this jet down on the down wind leg, when I turn to final I see the belly and the gear, hold it in that AOA, after a little practice you will find it locked in on that final approach, once you find the right altitude you need on final, you can let her drop, it won't drop a wing but it will pancake if your to slow on the thottle so be ready, if you get it right and you time your flare and throttle just right, you will be rewarded with a nice scale touchdown on the mains, so it will fly as is right out of the box, I have proven that with my five that I've had. I suggest the next time you go out, don't raise the gear, fly it around that way for the whole battery, it will require you to hold up elevator, this is normal for this jet in slow flight, once you feel it, you will get the landings down so much easier.

I'm not saying this is the only way to fly this jet, only a suggestion if you don't like flipping switches and programming mixes.

I like your style buddy. I hate mixes (because I suck at them, lol) and I love flying stock whenever possible. I may attempt her again bone stock. The only thing that makes me want flaperons is to shorten the takeoff roll mainly. It was spooky watching her almost run into the chain link fence at the end of the track before being able to rotate! Maybe I was too conservative with the power...I heard someone say not to goose her right out of the gate, but maybe I should have her at 100% power a bit sooner...

[Hugh Wiedman]

WOW, nice to see the F-16 fan club is out in force. When I first got mine 6 months ago, it seemed this thread was almost dead. Thought this bird may be on the endangered list, but not anymore.

I'm somewhat like DCorsair, keep it simple. 120 mm cg with flaperons at 14mm deflection for take off and 23mm for landing. Any throttle below 50% requires some up elevator, and it cruises around with a slight nose up attitude.

On landing I reduce to 35% throttle which gives a nice smooth glide path and HAO, but still enough speed that it doesn't go to ground without your permission. Once 2 feet off the ground and where I want it to touch down, I reduce throttle further and ease in up elevator to get a nice nose up 2 pointer. Not always, but the majority of the time as brain farts are quite common with me and happen randomly, causing a "why did I just do that".

Whatever works for you is best as I'm sure there are many ways to "skin this cat".

[DCORSAIR]

I will say it again and not being a know it all, I have flown this jet for 3yrs and you don't need any mixes of any kind, if you choose to do so that is great, these guys have all the mixes down and working, and that is fine, but if you stay with your CG around 118mm-120mm you will nail the landings after a little practice, you have to slow this jet down on the down wind leg, when I turn to final I see the belly and the gear, hold it in that AOA, after a little practice you will find it locked in on that final approach, once you find the right altitude you need on final, you can let her drop, it won't drop a wing but it will pancake if your to slow on the thottle so be ready, if you get it right and you time your flare and throttle just right, you will be rewarded with a nice scale touchdown on the mains, so it will fly as is right out of the box, I have proven that with my five that I've had. I suggest the next time you go out, don't raise the gear, fly it around that way for the whole battery, it will require you to hold up elevator, this is normal for this jet in slow flight, once you feel it, you will get the landings down so much easier.

I'm not saying this is the only way to fly this jet, only a suggestion if you don't like flipping switches and programming mixes.

[Phantom]

Forgive me if I misunderstood but are you saying you use tailerons in conjunction with flaperons for final approach? In my instance, I had neither, and had zero pitch up on base to final. In fact, the opposite. She was fast and floaty and try as I might, I couldn't get her into that high alpha stance we all covet, and instead she landed pretty flat. We may be talking about two different things so I apologize if I misinterpreted your comments.

Affirm for everything but high winds I use tailerons with I described as elevons in post 580, but in this configuration I don't use Flaperons, I use full non-moving flaps. Below is my #580 post which is how I have my F-16 set up...

I have mine set up for 3 flight modes on a single 3 way toggle switch.

1. Flaperons at 15% and conventional elevator, used for take off and high wind landings.

2. Conventional setup aileron and elevator for enroute flight.

3. Full deflection flaps, no ailerons or flaperons and elevons for the tail, with about 15% of rudder mixed in with the elevons being the master. This is for normal landings. I've got a few hours watching the full scale birds land at Kunsan and Osan AFB over here and about half of all the real world landings I've witnessed up close and personal aren't the most graceful touchdowns. For my model, full non moving flaps and an all moving tail with a wee bit of rudder mixed in gives me the slowest most stable landings I've experienced with my limited time flying this F-16. I've been flying it on these flight modes since the 3rd flight and I like it. When using full flaps my F-16 lands more like the Mirage 2000.

[Aros]

Forgive me if I misunderstood but are you saying you use tailerons in conjunction with flaperons for final approach? In my instance, I had neither, and had zero pitch up on base to final. In fact, the opposite. She was fast and floaty and try as I might, I couldn't get her into that high alpha stance we all covet, and instead she landed pretty flat. We may be talking about two different things so I apologize if I misinterpreted your comments.

[Phantom]

HA! Never...I know this is a sweet bird, but has a higher wing load than others and that's okay...The reward is mastering her from takeoff to touchdown. And that's always the most fun part! If I wanted hands off flying I would have ordered another Avanti S!

I'm reading your conversation and wondering why I never have this pitch up you folks are referring to when I reduce power on base to final. I'm really perplexed because I'm happiest with the CG at 122 to 124. I thought perhaps it's the rate at which I reduced the throttle....

Then it hit me, everything I've read on here speaks to limiting the flap/flaperons travel due to blocking out the elevators. I use flaps with as much travel as I can and an all moving tail,(elevons) for landing and have never felt any loss of authority out of my stabilizers.

I believe now that I don't have that pitch up on final when the power is reduced due to the full non- moving flaps. They cause the nose to pitch down effectively cancelling out the pitch up you folks are talking about. At 15% for take off flaps they create more lift than drag and cause the nose to be light as ground speed increases and they start creating lift. This allows for very scale takeoffs, very pretty on this model. At full flaps the nose does the opposite and has a pitch down effect due to the drag being so far back.

If what I'm observing is correct, it actually makes this model very hands off to fly. I've only got 5 flights with this configuration. The drag on base to final keeps your angle of attack nose down, and as the speed bleeds off and the drag is reduced she settles into a nice nose high attitude for landing.

[Aros]

HA! Never...I know this is a sweet bird, but has a higher wing load than others and that's okay...The reward is mastering her from takeoff to touchdown. And that's always the most fun part! If I wanted hands off flying I would have ordered another Avanti S!

[Hugh Wiedman]

In the meantime, don't get discouraged and start thinking, gee, everyone said this flew heavy, why did I get talked into buying it again. Trust me, with the flaperons you'll be singing it's praises.

On the other hand, you may be saying Damn, I'm never listening to that moron again.

[Aros]

Good advice! I think you nailed it Hugh. She needs flaperons especially for my environment. Adding a gyro will almost feel like cheating as she is a solid bird as is. But I feel the benefits outweigh any negatives (not that I think a gyro has any negatives). I will heed your advice and keep the CG but try the sop****re flight with flaperons. Something tells me I will exclaim, "Eureka!" I agree on the slight nose down attitude on takeoff as well. That, overall weight and ordinance can conspire for a longer takeoff roll than one would like.

Looking forward to the next flight! Which looks like a month away. Stupid weather.

[Hugh Wiedman]

Congratulations, all in all, a success. Before you move the CG back any, try the flaperons for take off first. Same thing happened with me at the beginning, no flaps and it ate the runway up, in fact, first run it did not get off. I'm on grass and it was wet making it worse. Proceeded to move the battery back each flight to help it get off, but that didn't seem to matter. Over 4 flights of moving it back each time, it got back around 134 mm cg and didn't help take off but landing was impossible (at a certain low speed, the nose rises up without any elevator input, the plane rises, the wings simultaneously stall and then it drops like a rock- all right before your eyes as if it's possessed).

Part of the problem with take off is the slight nose down attitude it has on the gear, I think.

Then for the next 4 flights I moved the battery forward to 122mm cg where I started with (which was recommended by several guys here), used takeoff flaps and it was a completely different animal. The landing flaps also helped tremendously with a smooth high alpha touch down. With 1/2 flaps it gets off the grass in the same distance as my 2 stock F'4s.

You will really enjoy a gyro as well. I installed the AR636 with gyro and it flies smooth as a baby's bottom. Gains for fly around are 25-30-35 (R-P-Y) and for take off and landing I have the gains cranked up to around 70-75-80.

Try those 2 things first (flaperons & gyro) before you change the cg much from the 120 range. And if you want a shorter take off, you can always try full flaps, but even on grass and the 6000 battery I haven't needed to, 1/2 worked fine for me.

Now get back out there and get er done.

[Aros]

Was able to maiden today after all. The clouds parted, the sun came out and off we went!

Flew with ordinance but no tanks. Used a 6S Roaring Top 5500mAh, CG was at 120mm. I decided to increase the elevator throw a bit on the low rates..I took off on low rates and let her gain speed and she ate up 3/4 of the track as I kept giving more back pressure still wasn't lifting off so I had to jam the elevator full back and she finally popped up for a pretty un-scale takeoff, lol. Once I got the nose back down and settled her in she felt a bit nose heavy...Had to add several clicks of up to get her flying level. Ailerons still felt a bit too twitchy for me even on low rates (a problem I had with the HSD 105mm as well) but all-in-all she flew great. I am going to drop in my Demon gyro in her, seems like a great candidate.

The landing was perfectly imperfect. Came in too high and too hot so I chopped the throttle and tried kicking the nose up but she just wanted to stay flat and float...I finally coaxed her down to a flatter landing than I was hoping. But the landing wasn't too bad, nor too hard. Just not the high alpha scale landing I wanted to achieve. I get its a learning curve with any new model so I look forward to figuring out her likes and dislikes.

I didn't have flaperons and I definitely plan on adding them, especially where we fly (at a school track). I felt like she was a touch too nose heavy and might explore 125mm next time or so. I had the RunCam2 on the top of the canopy and I know that can affect CG a little, but how much I am not certain on this model. I thought I recorded the flight onboard but I guess I didn't hit the button right to activate the recording. Dang it. Next time.

She's in one piece, the landing gear didn't take an unnecessary beating so I am happy!

[Aros]

Good stuff folks, again I appreciate all the responses and information! I did learn last night that the real F-16's lights are in fact blinking most the time. So it turns out to be a scale feature, even though it looks "off" to some, like me. I will just keep them as they are, especially knowing that it mimics the full scale. DCORSAIR yeah that's my thoughts about the tanks too. She looks tough as nails with them on but I think they are more a static feature than meant for flight. Looking back in my archives I see that I flew mine with tanks and ordinance on the maiden and early flights which might help explain at least partially why I was having a hell of a time with landings the first few attempts.

[PaulZ]

Good stuff Hugh, thanks for the response! Did you increase the elevator throw from recommended due to personal style or did you feel this model needs the extra throw on pitch?

On the blinking lights, do you mean you too haven't figured it out, or do you just mean you don't mind them flashing? Finally, I do plan on mixing flaperons...What kind of throws have you found effective? I usually program my flaps for takeoff and landing mode. Thanks again!

Regarding the lights - there are no always-on ports on the control board so you bave two options:
1) Solder a 100ohm resistor in series with each LED that you want to stay on and y-connect them to any free port on the board to the positive and negative terminal. Note that Freewing LEDs don't have resistors in line, these are on the control boards.
2) If you have a spare one, use the Freewing big blue box (MCB-E I think). It has more features than the one that comes with the f-16 control board. That way you will have all the light options including always-on and additionally a nose stearing port that shuts off when the gear is retracted.

[DCORSAIR]

Aros, welcome to the squadron!
My 2 cents:
1) For me, sweet spot is 118-122, anything further back and it still flies well but landing is difficult.
2) Can't help you with the blinking lights, sorry
3) I reduced the aileron rates 10%-15% (10 low, 12.5 mid, 15 high if you use 3 rates). Just the opposite on the elevator, increased rates 15-20%. For expo, although that is a highly personal item, I like 35-40%.
4) I've only flown it with the 6 missiles, and honestly did not notice much of a difference. As far as with tanks, I'm curious on that as well. May never strap them on though, with over 100 flights on my F-4s, I've yet to try it with the tanks.

Can't wait to see your Artic Camo repaint, I'm already jealous.

As I've mention earlier, you seriously may want to program flaperons. I know you fly off asphalt, so you don't need them for takeoff like I did to get off grass. Where they do help is reducing the draining of the battery on takeoff (shorter full thrust duration) and an easier climb to get some maneuvering altirude. Every little bit of extra flight time is like a gift from heaven. Oh yah, helps on landing slow high alpha as well.

If you do try the tanks, be careful. I have tried the tanks several times and have never got it to fly right, the elevator is the issue, it will fly with them on but the elevator feels weird and after adjusting my CG several ways, I never became comfortable with them, I personally think they block out some of the elevator airflow, thats what it feels like to me, if you watch videos of this jet flying you sure don't see anyone bragging on how great this jet flies with the tanks on, missles and all that are fine, but not those huge tanks. I don't use all those fancy mixes or anything like that, remember, the fuselage is an airbrake basically, use it.

[Phantom]

I have mine set up for 3 flight modes on a single 3 way toggle switch.

1. Flaperons at 15% and conventional elevator, used for take off and high wind landings.

2. Conventional setup aileron and elevator for enroute flight.

3. Full deflection flaps, no ailerons or flaperons and elevons for the tail, with about 15% of rudder mixed in with the elevons being the master. This is for normal landings. I've got a few hours watching the full scale birds land at Kunsan and Osan AFB over here and about half of all the real world landings I've witnessed up close and personal aren't the most graceful touchdowns. For my model, full non moving flaps and an all moving tail with a wee bit of rudder mixed in gives me the slowest most stable landings I've experienced with my limited time flying this F-16. I've been flying it on these flight modes since the 3rd flight and I like it. When using full flaps my F-16 lands more like the Mirage 2000.

[Hugh Wiedman]

1) I increased the elevator throws because I felt it needed it, not for takeoff, but for better response getting it into high alpha.
2) On the blinking lights, I don't mind them so haven't investigated making the wing tips solid-actually too busy worrying about other items to get there. Would like the wing tips solid though.
3) Me too, on takeoff flaps I set the deflection at 15mm and landing at 22mm. You could go a little more if you like as this is more modest than usual for me (ala your and my Corsair). If I remember, the manual suggests 25 on both but didn't want to over-extend the aileron servo at full flaps, although with the aileron throws slightly reduced, I'm not likely to pull a full aileron roll at full flaps anyway.