Official FlightLine RC 1200mm F8F-1 Bearcat Thread

[OV10]

I didn't have any expo programmed. I felt I was really only using elevator to compensate for the ballooning, or compensating the compensation when it would dip. Maybe something to consider; however, I'd at least like to think I'd be able to manage the plane in the meantime at least a little. The last two flights it was literally unable to be controlled from liftoff until crash. Motion did mention that sometimes a little expo (like 15% or so) is necessary.

So am gonna be blunt ............ why do you keep rushing at this when you obviously don't have the skill set for a warbird yet ??
A little under a month ago you were making these comments about not being ready.

https://www.hobbysquawk.com/forum/rc-airplanes/beginner-q-a/76713-super-newb?p=87995#post87995

And then in the same day you acknowledged eating humble pie confirming my advise given to another inexperienced pilot wanting to rush into flying the Bearcat.

https://www.hobbysquawk.com/forum/rc-airplanes/beginner-q-a/84821-first-warbird?p=87996#post87996

This Bearcat is a *****cat IF you've got the skill set to fly a warbird. You really need to go back to the trainers and pay your dues.;)
Calling Motion customer service about well established setup parameters isn't gonna get your inexperience level improved........just being straight forward here.
Best regards,

[Hippie 64]

Just thought I'd try to get some feedback here. Took the Bearcat out for a maiden about a month ago (balanced per the instruction manual). As soon as it left the ground it was squirly and uncontrollable. I was lucky to get away with a few broken prop blades and dislodged wings when it crashed. I inquired with motionrc on this, and they think it might've been extremely nose heavy based on flight characteristics (lots of up and down movement, seemingly impossible to control). I was able fix everything without issue and balanced with my 3600 all the way forward. Seemed perfect despite my concerns of repeating the maiden. Needless to say, I brought it out again today and things were very similar to the maiden; unable to control immediately after takeoff and ended up pile driving it into earth. I'm just not sure what went wrong here. Any input would be appreciated here. Thanks everyone.

What went wrong is you jumped into the deep end before learning to tread water !!!!! You went from ZERO knowledge and EXPERIENCE to trying to fly a bird that at the minimum takes a year to year and a half of EXPERIENCE and knowing how to set up your equipment . Not only that but you put anyone that was near at risk of injury .

I am all for new pilots and the excitement that comes with it but you also have a big responsibility to flying . Look thru some history of people getting cut and messed up with these planes . Do you have someone helping you because it doesn't sound that way . If you were at any club worth its weight they would not let you do that .

Please take your time and practice with a training plane . You needs months of knowledge and experience before jumping on that plane .


Bryan

[purduephigam]

Guys, I very much understand the perspective on new pilots getting in too early. I have already taken ownership in the problem that I got too far ahead of myself with a false sense of confidence in flying the trainer. I'm only looking for a better understanding of what went wrong during flight to cause the completely erratic behavior. With several months under my belt with a trainer, assuming parameters were correct, I'd like to think it could at least be mildly controlled before taking a dirt dive. Nonetheless, as mentioned before, I'm blaming myself.

I also understand the possibility of personal injury and danger; a risk we all take whether we're on our own or sharing a local field. I can assure you, appropriate measures are taken so that I am away from people, vehicles, etc. I fly at a local field as well as recreational fields near my house. I even take it a step further and take on dawn patrol so that I am avoiding people and any other pilots so as to not risking harming their planes in flight, or their bodies.

Yes, OV10, you're right and I'm aware of those posts as well as my initial lesson learned. At some point in time we all need to make a jump and challenge ourselves to elevate our skill set. Call it ignorant, or overeager, but I thought I could at least entertain the flight for a few minutes prior to an attempt at landing. Obviously, this was a poorly calculated risk and I've learned the hard way. I'm human, and just like the rest of you, I make mistakes. This last experience has confirmed, again as I've mentioned, that I'm going back to the Hawksky and possibly purchase an apprentice or Dynam primo to get more experience on a more forgiving plane. I'll take the blunt reality comments here, but I don't want this thread hijacked on newb stuff when it should be about the Bearcat. My apologies for inquiring, this was not the correct forum for it. Those of you who have contributed, I appreciate the input. Possibly expo for elevator is something to consider in the future, certainly if it's behaving funky. I'll keep this in mind the next time I attempt a warbird flight, which will be quite some time LOL

[Hippie 64]

I am very happy to read your comments !!!! We all understand the joy and sparkle in your eyes while looking at that plane . And yes at some point we have all made that jump . I can say from experience that the Bearcat should not be your next step . It is a great plane but way too advanced for you at this point . As good as the Hawksky is it doesn't prepare or give you low wing training . You need high wing practice for some time then you need low wing practice . They fly like night and day and once you see the difference you will glad you took the steps . The Pandora is a great plane that has four different setups on it . High wing tricycle and tail dragger then you switch it to low wing tricycle and tail dragger . All four setups take off, land, and fly different . Look into it


We will always be here to help and answer any questions you may have and there will be many . We will never steer you wrong, that we know of , because nobody wants to hear about a crash .


Keep us posted on your progress

Bryan

[boomer108]

I didn't think it was porpoising per say, just mainly a lot of up and down, uncontrollable movement. Went over everything with motion and even they haven't come across anything quite like this with the Bearcat. Either I am the worst newb pilot out there, or my CG was off and I "thought" it was balanced. Again, everything set up per the manual, and I had balanced it to 85mm upside down prior to the maiden and right side up prior to the 2nd maiden. Still at a loss here, but I'll just need to get back to beginner mode with another plane in addition to the Hawksky and get my bearings.

You should balance with the plane up side down and gear up and try 15 - 20 % expo on the elevator that is after you get a littlel more trainer time. Good luck and good flying!

[rifleman_btx]

That's an awesome pic!

[Grossman56]

I didn't have any expo programmed. I felt I was really only using elevator to compensate for the ballooning, or compensating the compensation when it would dip. Maybe something to consider; however, I'd at least like to think I'd be able to manage the plane in the meantime at least a little. The last two flights it was literally unable to be controlled from liftoff until crash. Motion did mention that sometimes a little expo (like 15% or so) is necessary.

Couldn't agree with the guys more. Don't feel like its a put down, really, we were all there, for guys like me, not that long ago either. I flew the proverbial pants off my two Pandoras in low wing tail dragger configuration before even attempting to fly my P-51's and then I buddy boxed for the first two flights. I had Ol' Weedwacker, my HH Supercub at first and would not have survived the jump into warbirds from that plane. Even at that, I've lost a few warbirds, so :Poo:happens. The trick is not to let it happen too often:Cool:
The Bearcat is a great plane when you're ready for it, but 30% expo and low rates of around 70% are a good place to start as well as using the outer holes on the control horns and inner on the servos. Do yourself and your wallet a huge service and follow the same route as we did, Bryan, remember those days?? Hippie 64 and I go back a few years when we were just breaking into the hobby. I remember drooling over the P-51's and having one sitting in the basement raring to go didn't help matters either until I started looking at her as a goal to reach
Bottom line, she's still in one piece, has never had an accident an is a joy to fly. You'll get there, but do it the right way.

Grossman56

[skylane42]

Anyone know where to get a carbon wing tube for the Bearcat.. Motion does not list them.

[Beeg]

Anyone know where to get a carbon wing tube for the Bearcat.. Motion does not list them.

Have you called them? Sometimes the parts you need are not itemized clearly in the spare parts

It's about 4x the length you need but if you're just looking for carbon tube....
http://www.rcfoam.com/carbon-fiber-s...ube-p-803.html

[crxmanpat]

Oddly enough, I'm in the same boat. Last night I started assembling Bearcat #2, but darned if I can find the wing tube. I had removed everything from the box and then threw away the styro packing, but put everything back in the shipping box for storage. And not only can I not find the wing tube for this one, but I can't find the one from my crashed one either. They have to be hiding in the garage somewhere...

[skylane42]

So the wing tube is a tube and it is 8mm OD and about 13.25 (337mm) long?

[crxmanpat]

Correct, except I'd say 12.25" (310mm), 13.25" will be too long.

[crxmanpat]

So I finally managed to locate one of my wing spars. It is 13 7/8" long, 8mm OD.

[skylane42]

Thanks guys, I found what was supposed to be the spar but it is only 10 inches long..

[crxmanpat]

So I finally managed to locate one of my wing spars. It is 13 7/8" long, 8mm OD.

I'm beginning to think the spar I found was actually from another plane. At 13 7/8" it was too long. I had to cut it down to 12.25" to get it to fit.

[radfordc]

Guys, I very much understand the perspective on new pilots getting in too early. I have already taken ownership in the problem that I got too far ahead of myself with a false sense of confidence in flying the trainer. I'm only looking for a better understanding of what went wrong during flight to cause the completely erratic behavior.

Based on your level of experience the problem could well be "pilot induced oscillation". What happens is you put in a control movement that causes the plane to pitch up; but you over do it a little and the plane pitches up faster, then you try to correct, but again over do it and now the plane is pitching down too fast. Once it starts it gets ugly fast.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilot-induced_oscillation

https://youtu.be/XHPv0qt03aA

[radfordc]

Using reduced throws and lots of exponential will help control PIO. I always use at least 40% expo on all the throws to start with and adjust from there.

[purduephigam]

Based on your level of experience the problem could well be "pilot induced oscillation". What happens is you put in a control movement that causes the plane to pitch up; but you over do it a little and the plane pitches up faster, then you try to correct, but again over do it and now the plane is pitching down too fast. Once it starts it gets ugly fast.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilot-induced_oscillation

https://youtu.be/XHPv0qt03aA

I believe this is exactly what happened, which turned into a pilot-induced crash. Certainly expo should've certainly been programmed to help avoid this, unfortunately I think a downed plane was inevitable, as my eyes were bigger than my skill set. Lesson learned and I will absolutely get better with another beginner plane before even thinking to attempt another warbird. I appreciate all the input, especially with regards to expo as I hadn't even given this any thought prior to the second crash.

[Grossman56]

Hey Purdue, don't feel bad, we've all been there. Just for future reference though, when you're ready for the big jump into warbirds. I usually fly mine with 30% expo and on mid rates, which is usually 80-85%. The Bearcat is a sweetheart of a plane to fly so, you'll get there, no doubt of that!!
Keep in touch and don't hesitate to PM me or anyone here when you go to take the leap. In the meantime, get yourself a good trainer like the Pandora and fly the pants off her!!

Grossman56

[radfordc]

Unless you're flying 3D, airplanes don't need near as much elevator throw as most people think. For a warbird in normal flight you need only enough throw to make a nice round loop. You can set up your rate switch so that most flying is done with about 75% of the full amount recommended in the manual. For landing, I like to use even less throw...maybe 60% of the full amount. These reduced throws along with 30-40% expo make for very smooth, scale looking maneuvers.