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Alternative motor windings and drive schemes
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It is viable because you can not just look at the Kw (winding factor). The (thd) or total harmonic distortion and thus the power factor of the machine will be the percentage of side bands versus the working harmonic. It has a lower 2 pole than the SL machine so the rotors iron and 5 pole pairs theoretically should run cooler. You test it to know but the theory is there.
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Hi Fellas
Today was the first day in a long time signed on to HS and the spy wasn't already here.....but that will be over as soon as I push the enter button on this pc.... he wants a set of keys to this wind data is all. I don't get that if conventional winds satisfies dude.
I'll crank it today for him and his boys since they cant do it for themselves in 4 years.
Here is the wind from that thread . This wont fuel anything much less a technical debate.
Prototyp 12n14p YD | RC-Network.de
what's your reality?
Sincerely
Hubert
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If you dont own a Yokogawa PA capable of measuring a few percent of efficiency there are several empirics you can look at.
1 are the load amps lower?
2 on the scope is there indeed a reduction of subharmonics ?
3 for a duration of time constant operation at a steady load you measure the external bell temperatures with IR gun. Is it lower than convention ?
It should be....so
You dont need ABB's or Munich universities discrete test facilities to verify improvement in the machines
U can also have better power factor but still not gain a point in efficiency wrap the head around that!
so everything is not as simple as measures dc resistance at room temperatures
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The other issue is if it majorly reduces loss in the PM like all the results have show in academia then Demag or desynchronization happens much later . If you actually have a hybrid wind LOAD IT thats simple. U already know even the incorrectly wound hybrid on helifreak runs cooler and turns slower.
U all see the IO is LOWER with less copper mass and BOTH YY's used larger stranding. Can you see
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What the modeler did not record which would allowed us to compare eta was the phase resistance of each machine. He has torn it down already for a single wire delta so that will never come forth now. U will have to wind it to complete the picture which already looks better than a parallel wye. which is indeed at least a 2 strand machine. you can see only 1 strand for his open ended why so he starved the inner delta machine. That's why he lost his punch. That should be obvious. You see my open ended wyes have 2 strand in the same size as the delta so i cannot starve it. I'm double up there. Do you see my UVW consist of 4 strands versus his 1. You can see I advised him to amend the wind and he did not he just jumped to something else despite the promising result and is happy with a boring ass 1 wire delta and chipped stator from wrapping the large conductor.
That also 155c solederon wire. a huge down grade from what a pyro comes with.
I'm winding with 200C and 250C wire
Hubert
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I told him 4 years agoSo ill move on because the Helifreaks motor forum is slow and purposely ignored the measured empirics and their implications . The moderators fly and spent all their money on the black and gold hand wound convention form Germany, so they are exactly the ones that don't want to hear there is something better. Now you lobbied on the strength of that and now own the forum and its dead with inactivity....Looks to me like everyone slid over here behind a > 5000 view curtain.09-23-2021, 10:45 AM #15 (permalink) 1BOHO
Registered Users
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Research Triangle Park
Hello apostolosnt ,
Have you had the time to record the phase resistances of each machine in this comparison? With 11 turns in the hybrid your kv is much lower than the YY so you should be able to go larger with the wire for the same Kv or add turns to utilize higher voltages.
Regards,
Hubert
Maybe his American admirers or ANGLOPHILES, as he's called them on the German forums, can't get in Ralph's Germans only discussions on what's app.....???
He does not want them there but he is here! 😬
The 5000 should be careful because last time 103k subscribed he took down his powerditto site for about a year.
The real 1BOHO
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A state of the art winding program knows it not just about a motors measured resistance or stall current. It also knows if the ideal hybrid turns ratio is 1:1.73 then the uneven coils side is even more elegant because it accommodates the half turn which brings it closer into spec with that ratio. I have the complete mathematical literature from Dr Gerling that explains that in several ways. But what you need to realize that what Dr Islam and ABB did is create a hybrid with the clean signal without any loss in static torque but actually a 3% boost The power factor was also significantly improved and from a thermal standpoint what both Drs winds bring harmonically is going to make a significant difference in the operation of the drive and motor as a unit and it should definitely improve the cos phi relationship and thus improve power factor.
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It is very easy if you have the mind for it to conceptualize and understand in the physical world that the hybrids connection, uneven coil side winding ratios and shifted winding sets on the same stator manipulate the 30 degree vector angle and magnitudes and thus bring these destructive things in motor operation into phase or even sublimate (boost) at times the right magnitudes while minimizing the un wanted one that create the modal vibrations on the machine and stator that lead to a more consistent air gap and less pm and core losses. This is very easy to understand . If electronics is truly your world 🧡
Ill monolog a little later and you'll listen because you want to see the key crank on Pyro-mania...👀
ttys
Hubert
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What mathematics and science have clearly shown is that the motor with the lowest dc resistance and Idle current (ac resistance) is the winner in ETA. You can have a low dc resistance but if your ac is 10 times higher the motor isnt energy star special.
I want you to read in particular the passage after and Eq 1.91 Ralph.
~maxon pages~
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From here we can all stop acting silly because we can use this formula Eq 1.92 to rougly compare motors at any glance at any voltage. If you gradually increase idle speed voltage and record the numbers at various point from lowest to highest mechanical voltage the motor can take you can derive the curve of efficiency for each motor. You say its theory I say show one study from academics where the laboratory results were vastly different from the mathematical and modeling results. Thats all compared and accounted for in any published document in the body.
Its also notable that u keep referring in our size . Well in our size the motors hardly have much voltage drop across the coils as compared to large industrial machines. We also run at frequencies much higher than 60hz so anything that attenuates frequency driven harmonics in a motor I think actually benefits the smaller faster motors better don't you...
The other thing is where are the large permanent magnet 3 phase motors in Industry Ralph? They do not exist there or even in the EV's You only see BLDC's in the servo motors of robots. AMU's HVAC & large motor machines plus conveyance all run induction motors on vfd's. Ralph...
Smh....the boys don't know what they are talking about bro they don't work in industry.
So get the motors wound and enjoy the hobby.
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Hi Ralph
Since you are here Id like you to look at the waveform here of my single layer hybrid winding. Its only a few turns so i need more rpm but this is a tru BLDC bemf. and this is definitely going to make less ripple with six step drives like the Tribunus from scorpion the BL32 esc's and even the YGE at WOT. A BLDC bemf signaled like this is going to make less torque ripple with a six step drive. it makes more torque and is ,more efficient at high speed esp. Clearly APD (hargrave) is Focal or six step drive. You YY dual layers definitely dont look like this and are a mismatch with any six step drive and your YGE at wot...
I could skip over showing you the dual layer version because this looks so promising for BLDC operation which certainly has its advantages over BLACK for high speed , Low ripple, and torque.
This only confirms the fallacy on the German social media that someone winded one and tested it . You guys need to be quiet because you hadn't tested a thing not to mention Id love seeing a wind that created a uneven coil side difference of two . A 14/16 ? what the hell is that?
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Look what happens with the sinus. JUTT (Felix) shows you with his KISS32 synbred drive.
KISS sinHybrid - Sinwave / BackEMF Hybrid-Commutation (seidel-philipp.de)
Back-EMF – Back Electromagnetic Force
"Because not all phases are „powered“ on, (as with the full sine wave) one phase is switched off so you can determine the position with the voltage measurement on the open phase. Incidentally, today’s brushless fpv motors return a nearly perfect sine wave as a back EMF. This can be tested by turning the motor (for example with a cordless screwdriver; see pictures below) and measuring with an oscilloscope on the phases. Advantage of this method is quite clear that you can calculate the position fairly accurately and without knowing the motor characteristics or setup."
This is clearly not the case now. Its no longer has the psuedo sinus familiar to all hobby motors and that doesn't work optimally with a sex step drive.
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