Official Freewing 90mm F-4 Phantom II Thread

[davegee]

Hi Davegee - Sounds like a fun project. You don’t say how old your system is nor the brand.

Keep in mind that the radio technology keeps improving all the time. In my opinion, avoid the temptation to save a few dollars and then risk crashing your new bird due to an older technology RX.

Don’t take this as a bash on older radio gear...there are those who swear by their older systems. But, if you have the chance, why not take advantage of the advances? But....new RXs may not be compatible with your TX.

And now pardon me while I get on my soapbox (the other readers are rolling their eyes about now...LOL), but PLEASE take the time to search “ferrite” or “choke” or “RF choke” and read/learn/buy/install these. The high current ESC of the F-4 (and others) deserves some special consideration in this regard. Just saying....I lost an F-4 and an A-10 (twice) BEFORE I began to use RF chokes, and I haven’t lost a bird (due to a radio glitch) since I started using them.

UBEC = Universal Battery Eliminator Circuit. It takes the “too much” voltage of a LiPo battery that you use to power the EDF motors and reduces the voltage to a level that the receiver can tolerate. Mine plugs into the terminal on the receiver marked “B”.

Regarding the ESC and motors and UBEC....they may be OK, but let’s see what the experts have to say.

How has all this equipment been stored? Outside in a humid garage? Indoors in a controlled environment? The reason I ask is that humidity can penetrate plastic ICs and initiate internal circuit corrosion effects over time....accelerating the failure mechanisms. Capacitors also degrade over time, especially if they are electrolytic and just sitting around w/o any voltage applied.

Finally, page up and read post 4799 on April 6.

Keep us posted on your progress.

-GG

Hi Glider guy: thanks for your comments. You have some good points. My gear isn't all that old, I have a Spektrum DX18 with latest updates, a Spektrum 9020 receiver, new batteries, etc. They are all in perfect working order, outside of the airplane that I removed them from. They have always been keep indoors in my shop when I was not flying, and I always have "babied" my planes since I got into the hobby years ago.

If I do buy an ARF+, I'll be sure to take into consideration some of the improvements to improve strength and reliability to the elevator servo area, and things like the choke that you have stressed in your blogs. I have one of those chokes installed on my EFlite P-51 1.5m model, I had not been aware of those before, but I fly with it every time I bring that plane to the field.
Cheers
Davegee

[davegee]

Hi All: I have a Green version FW F-4 that I retired, removed the motor, ESC, etc., Thinking about putting them in a ARF+ Navy version of the plane. My field is a little short, and somewhat bumpy. I'd like to add brakes, I've heard JP brakes, but don't know anything about them or how to install or use them. Any help on where I should look to research this some more?
Thanks,
Davegee

[davegee]

Hi Glider guy: thanks for your comments. You have some good points. My gear isn't all that old, I have a Spektrum DX18 with latest updates, a Spektrum 9020 receiver, new batteries, etc. They are all in perfect working order, outside of the airplane that I removed them from. They have always been keep indoors in my shop when I was not flying, and I always have "babied" my planes since I got into the hobby years ago.

If I do buy an ARF+, I'll be sure to take into consideration some of the improvements to improve strength and reliability to the elevator servo area, and things like the choke that you have stressed in your blogs. I have one of those chokes installed on my EFlite P-51 1.5m model, I had not been aware of those before, but I fly with it every time I bring that plane to the field.
Cheers
Davegee

Hi Glider Guy: I was looking on Amazon for a RF choke ferrite device. But I'm not sure what size will work for my Freewing F-4 Phantom. Can you supply any info for the correct size that will fit the ESC for that plane for me to order?

Thanks,

Davegee

[GliderGuy]

Hi Glider Guy: I was looking on Amazon for a RF choke ferrite device. But I'm not sure what size will work for my Freewing F-4 Phantom. Can you supply any info for the correct size that will fit the ESC for that plane for me to order?

Thanks,

Davegee

Purchase the variety pack. Then use the ones that will fit. Search Amazon for "clip on ferrite choke". You will see variety packs of from 20 pcs up to 50 pcs. Pick at least a 20 variety. You'll be glad you did.


You can run more than one wire through a given choke. Here's an example of the ones I used on the AL37 ESCs...
You will note this photo shows the "motor" side of the ESCs, but I also put chokes on the other side...hidden by the wood tray.

Place them as close to the ESC as possible on the one side...The "ALL" means run all of these wires through a choke. The important side is the side going forward. I'm not sure there is much benefit from putting the chokes on the motor side of the ESC, but..it can't hurt.

Note: I do not use them on the motor side of my MiG-29 or F-4. From what I've read, the RF noise on the 3-phase side <motor side> of the ESC is minimal.

For the AL37, I put them on both sides of the ESCs because it was easy to do. For the F-4, I put them just on the one side (forward going side) as that is the more critical side in regard to RF noise.

If you have a LONG servo lead, like in the MiG 29 and the AL37 elevator servos, I put a choke back by the elevator servo, for good measure. I don't have one on the F-4 elevator servo. But, if you want to...by all means. I also added a small one by the green ferrite ring up by the receiver on the throttle line on all my high-current ESC birds. Overkill...possibly. But several thousand flights on my high-current ESC birds without a radio glitch is proof enough for me that they just might be a good thing. Especially after 2 A-10 crashes and an F-4 crash BEFORE I began to use them.

Aside: When I purchased my SR-10 servo reverser from Futaba for my MiG (when I upgraded the servos)..it came with a clip-on RF choke already installed on the wire that connects to the receiver. Hmmm.....

-GG

More Details
—————-
A HAM radio guru explained it to me this way...The high-current ESCs generate common mode RF noise. The wires coming from the ESC are like radio antennae and transmit the noise into the nearby environment. This noise may, ON RARE OCCASIONS, be enough to upset the TX to RX binding, which is in effect a pointer table hand shake synchronization. So, place the chokes close to the ESC to minimize the length of the wire acting like a noise radiating antennae.

Once the pointer hand-shake is upset, radio control function is lost...until the TX and RX get synched up again. This can take several seconds, and...depending upon the radio design...might even require cycling the power on/off.

I fly so much that if it "CAN' happen...it "WILL HAPPEN", even if only rare in the probability of happening. He convinced me, and I haven't had a "glitch-caused" crash since I began using them.

The F-4 crash I had a few weekends ago (prior posts) was due to a servo going bad...since repaired and happily flying again.

[davegee]

Purchase the variety pack. Then use the ones that will fit. Search Amazon for "clip on ferrite choke". You will see variety packs of from 20 pcs up to 50 pcs. Pick at least a 20 variety. You'll be glad you did.


You can run more than one wire through a given choke. Here's an example of the ones I used on the AL37 ESCs...
You will note this photo shows the "motor" side of the ESCs, but I also put chokes on the other side...hidden by the wood tray.

Place them as close to the ESC as possible on the one side...The "ALL" means run all of these wires through a choke. The important side is the side going forward. I'm not sure there is much benefit from putting the chokes on the motor side of the ESC, but..it can't hurt.

Note: I do not use them on the motor side of my MiG-29 or F-4. From what I've read, the RF noise on the 3-phase side <motor side> of the ESC is minimal.

For the AL37, I put them on both sides of the ESCs because it was easy to do. For the F-4, I put them just on the one side (forward going side) as that is the more critical side in regard to RF noise.

If you have a LONG servo lead, like in the MiG 29 and the AL37 elevator servos, I put a choke back by the elevator servo, for good measure. I don't have one on the F-4 elevator servo. But, if you want to...by all means. I also added a small one by the green ferrite ring up by the receiver on the throttle line on all my high-current ESC birds. Overkill...possibly. But several thousand flights on my high-current ESC birds without a radio glitch is proof enough for me that they just might be a good thing. Especially after 2 A-10 crashes and an F-4 crash BEFORE I began to use them.

Aside: When I purchased my SR-10 servo reverser from Futaba for my MiG (when I upgraded the servos)..it came with a clip-on RF choke already installed on the wire that connects to the receiver. Hmmm.....

-GG

More Details
—————-
A HAM radio guru explained it to me this way...The high-current ESCs generate common mode RF noise. The wires coming from the ESC are like radio antennae and transmit the noise into the nearby environment. This noise may, ON RARE OCCASIONS, be enough to upset the TX to RX binding, which is in effect a pointer table hand shake synchronization. So, place the chokes close to the ESC to minimize the length of the wire acting like a noise radiating antennae.

Once the pointer hand-shake is upset, radio control function is lost...until the TX and RX get synched up again. This can take several seconds, and...depending upon the radio design...might even require cycling the power on/off.

I fly so much that if it "CAN' happen...it "WILL HAPPEN", even if only rare in the probability of happening. He convinced me, and I haven't had a "glitch-caused" crash since I began using them.

The F-4 crash I had a few weekends ago (prior posts) was due to a servo going bad...since repaired and happily flying again.

Hi Glider Guy: thanks for that great info. This might well prevent a crash in the future from RF interference, sure can't hurt to have it set up to do this. I'll probably buy a bunch of them as you suggested, for the moment, I do have one from the E Flite P-51 that was available as I removed it from the plane for another purpose. I'll place it where you suggest on your photo and markings.

Cheers

Dave

[locharrow]

Sympathy please...........was fitting new DRL lights on my car.. hood up ..put my glasses on the engine cover ..fitted one main beam LED .. went to test it..,need engine running (Merc foible ) .I went back to check the light in time to see my glasses slipping off the the engine cover onto the fan. Now a load of sparkly bits and some twisted metal!! They were the pair I use for flying Grounded for three weeks till I get an eye test and new specs! Yes .....the weather is perfect for flying !!

[Beeg]

Mine wasn't a pair of glasses but a few years ago I had to send my radio off for repair and missed out on some great flying days. Decided life is too short to miss out on those great days so bought another radio as backup/reserve just in case. If I wore glasses I'd probably keep a spare set on hand as well.

[locharrow]

Mine wasn't a pair of glasses but a few years ago I had to send my radio off for repair and missed out on some great flying days. Decided life is too short to miss out on those great days so bought another radio as backup/reserve just in case. If I wore glasses I'd probably keep a spare set on hand as well.

Just have to convince the missus that it would be good for my mental state to buy and build another plane.

[Hugh Wiedman]

Sympathy please...........was fitting new DRL lights on my car.. hood up ..put my glasses on the engine cover ..fitted one main beam LED .. went to test it..,need engine running (Merc foible ) .I went back to check the light in time to see my glasses slipping off the the engine cover onto the fan. Now a load of sparkly bits and some twisted metal!! They were the pair I use for flying Grounded for three weeks till I get an eye test and new specs! Yes .....the weather is perfect for flying !!

Don't let a little thing like not being able to see stop you from getting out, just do what I do, can't hardly see with or without glasses and that's never stopped me from flying. It's quite fun and exciting to guess what the orientation is! That's another reason I tend to add some extra bright colors like yellow on the top of the wing tips and red on the bottom, it at least gives me a fighting chance!

[Beeg]

Just have to convince the missus that it would be good for my mental state to buy and build another plane.

Yeah, Elbee and I have used these sorts of situations to justify to our wives we NEED another plane for our mental well being....

[heisteff]

hi just wanted to show some pics of my rhino. maiden still to come

[locharrow]

"hi just wanted to show some pics of my rhino. maiden still to come"

Heistaff...you can't fool us.....you have photo shopped a real Phantom to make it look like a model !!

[e4dragongunner]

hi just wanted to show some pics of my rhino. maiden still to come

FANTASTIC!!!

[locharrow]

"It's quite fun and exciting to guess what the orientation is! "

Just back from a session with the wee FMS Hawk and I'm afraid I will have to disagree Hugh! Despite the fact that it is a Red Arrows Hawk when one sees one's plane transforming into two planes, flying in close formation, it is quite troubling! Had to bring it in so close it looked more like a control line job than r/c !! Back safe and sound anyway so not all bad!!

[kallend]

"It's quite fun and exciting to guess what the orientation is! "

Just back from a session with the wee FMS Hawk and I'm afraid I will have to disagree Hugh! Despite the fact that it is a Red Arrows Hawk when one sees one's plane transforming into two planes, flying in close formation, it is quite troubling! Had to bring it in so close it looked more like a control line job than r/c !! Back safe and sound anyway so not all bad!!

Too much Balvenie 12yr old?

[Elbee]

hi just wanted to show some pics of my rhino.

HS, I am diggin' your 'all gray' Phantom. I especially like your VIR mods at the intakes.... Great work. Bravo Zulu, Sir. Best, LB

[locharrow]

"Too much Balvenie 12yr old? "

"K" You know that is impossible!!

[DCORSAIR]

hi just wanted to show some pics of my rhino. maiden still to come

Wow, I thought I had seen the best of the modified Rhinos, yours it at the top of the list, looks awesome..........

[heisteff]

thanks guys

[T- Elbert]

Got my 8s F4 up this weekend, what a blast. My buddy Jake was taking some great pics.