Freewing 90mm F-22 Raptor - Official Thread

[janmb]

Sorry to disappoint you but I have deployed them in flight and they work very well... very stable with the right amount of elevator compensation. But mostly I use them after landing...

I have crow on a lot of aircraft including my F-22. This is not my first attempt.

I don't doubt it, but it still defeats some of the purpose/benefits when going that big.

Crow vs airbrakes are very different things.

You would experience virtually the same drag, and massively improved stall speed and stall characteristics if reducing the amount by a lot

[Evan D]

F-22.. 125.8mph

[janmb]

F-22.. 125.8mph

Sweet, what drive train did you have in yours again?

[Evan D]

JF 8S :Cool:

[janmb]

JF 8S :Cool:

Got that setup myself, but that's going into the F-18. Keeping the F-22 6S

[Evan D]

Both the F-22 and F-18 have the same set up, JF and HET 1680. I have tried the F-22 on the original 6S, 8S like it is now, and HET 1200 on 10S and 12S. Happiest on 8S. F-4 has a HET 1500.

BTW the 8S (and the 12S) is lighter weight than the stock 6S.


As we have discovered you and I like very different things. On the F-22 I love the TVs and the full span flaps, full span ailerons and tailerons, it is very 3D at low speeds and has the high speed when I want it. That said I also state what works for me. What I have, what I fly and what has not worked. No theory, just applied functionality.

[janmb]

Both the F-22 and F-18 have the same set up, JF and HET 1680. I have tried the F-22 on the original 6S, 8S like it is now, and HET 1200 on 10S and 12S. Happiest on 8S. F-4 has a HET 1500.

BTW the 8S (and the 12S) is lighter weight than the stock 6S.


As we have discovered you and I like very different things. On the F-22 I love the TVs and the full span flaps, full span ailerons and tailerons, it is very 3D at low speeds and has the high speed when I want it. That said I also state what works for me. What I have, what I fly and what has not worked. No theory, just applied functionality.

Is your JF 8S setup lighter than stock? That is a bit hard to believe. If feel mine weighs a ton. Seems I clearly have some weighing to do. What size packs do you fly on 8S? 4000?

Not so sure our goals are all that different. Fair enough, I don't care too much about 3Ding my raptor (simply because I have flown the SU-35 a lot, and great as the F-22 is, it will never compete with that thing for 3D, hence rather stay away from trying). But at least you sound like someone who appreciates more than just zipping around as fast as you can - and that's music to my ears. And it makes you part of a rather small minority lol.

[Evan D]

We've talked about this before Jan, the differences in airframe are removing the stock fan/ motor/ ESC and BEC and replaced with a lighter carbon fan and shroud and a bit heavier HET motor. I use the Talon 120HV which is about the same as the stock ESC and BEC. I also removed a lot of wire and replaced with much shorter light duty extensions. And I fly it with a light weight 850g 6+2 Hobby Star 5200 45C battery. The TVs added a dozen or so grams. When I tried 12s it was with the HET1200 motor and same ESC so no change there and used two 6S 3500 60C packs the weigh 890g for the two combined.

It is fairly comparable to the SU with twin 70mm's, I would say it flies lighter than my SU did but it was a amp hog so I flew it on some heavier 5800s...

Is your JF 8S setup lighter than stock? That is a bit hard to believe. If feel mine weighs a ton. Seems I clearly have some weighing to do. What size packs do you fly on 8S? 4000?

Not so sure our goals are all that different. Fair enough, I don't care too much about 3Ding my raptor (simply because I have flown the SU-35 a lot, and great as the F-22 is, it will never compete with that thing for 3D, hence rather stay away from trying). But at least you sound like someone who appreciates more than just zipping around as fast as you can - and that's music to my ears. And it makes you part of a rather small minority lol.

[janmb]

Evan, sounds good

[Pogo]

Gentlemen,
I was finally able to maiden my Raptor the other day (5 flights in all) and it went well, but have a look at the down trim needed! That mark is the recommended 5.5 mm up from the bottom edge and another 5mm of down was needed for level flight. The balance point was carefully checked on my rig before and after the flights at 150 mm, the suggested CG. I can't for the life of me explain this and certainly haven't seen anyone else with this issue. Aerodynamically the jet is as it came, nothing that would change the thrust vector from stock etc. One would think the model would have flown very tail heavy with all this trim needed but it really didn't- just wanted to climb is all.
I'd surely appreciate any thoughts you guys might have before I venture out again this weekend.
Tom

[janmb]

Gentlemen,
I was finally able to maiden my Raptor the other day (5 flights in all) and it went well, but have a look at the down trim needed! That mark is the recommended 5.5 mm up from the bottom edge and another 5mm of down was needed for level flight. The balance point was carefully checked on my rig before and after the flights at 150 mm, the suggested CG. I can't for the life of me explain this and certainly haven't seen anyone else with this issue. Aerodynamically the jet is as it came, nothing that would change the thrust vector from stock etc. One would think the model would have flown very tail heavy with all this trim needed but it really didn't- just wanted to climb is all.
I'd surely appreciate any thoughts you guys might have before I venture out again this weekend.
Tom

It would be helpful if you could also supply a pic of the aft/inside of the elevators too to see how it lines up with the body.

What I would do to get answers is to test:

1. Make sure she is really well trimmed for level flight, upright, medium speed and throttle.
2. Then, what does throttle changes do to the trim (try sudden burst of power, then let speed normalize at medium, then suddenly cut throttle). If the CG is really good, the impact of throttle changes should be fairly minimal.
3. Do the same test, with focus on speed.
4. How does she handle inverted? A little elevator push is normal, but should not need a lot. (she requires down elevator inverted even at fairly serious tail heavy cg)
5. From good altitude, medium speed, dive at 45 degrees and cut power. Center sticks. She should stay straight at 45 degrees, or very very moderately pull out toward level.

The stock, manual CG is nose heavy as hell, just like on most models they produce. And thus, the stock elevator position is intended to suit that nose heavy config. Not needing an elevator that constantly fights and creates drag in order to make the model fly level is just a big bonus. But yes, one would indeed expect that this means your actual CG is a tad more aft than the book wants. Are you 100% sure your 150mm are measured from the correct starting point?

[crxmanpat]

Agreed with Jan. My CG is closer to 140mm with the taileron edges set at 5.5mm up from the bottom edge of the foam at the tips. But you would think that at 150mm, you'd need more up elevator to counter-act a nose heavy situation and not down elevator. Something seems very wrong with your bird Tom. I also want to see a pic of the trailing edge of the elevators, and specifically the glued-on foam pieces just inside them.

[Pogo]

Thank you Jan and Pat for the replies- I unexpectedly have to go out for the evening so won't be able to respond in detail until tomorrow afternoon. But yes, pretty confident that the CG is measured correctly.... Here's the requested pic of the TE.
Again- thanks guys!
Tom

[TECHSING]

With regard to F22 Serviceability (mainly servos) but all aspects welcome as well.





I'm new to Hobby Squawk, so I apologize if this is out in left field, but I would love to hear some feedback.

I have been researching the FW 90mm F22 and have read on the Motion-rc website that the F22 horizontal stabs, aileron and flap servos are housed in plastic trays for easy servicing.
My first question is, how are the rudder servos housed within the vertical stabilizers? I am hoping they too are easily serviceable and not glued in or something.
Most of the pics and vids I see of the rudder servos make it difficult to tell.

In a nutshell, with great care taken, I'd like to be able to service and replace the servos and components of this plane through the years without any damage to the foam.

Lastly, I spoke to a Motion-rc rep. He told me that there are plastic covers glued over the servos and that they can be removed easily with an exacto-knife without any damage to the foam.

Same question for the front landing gear door servo.

Any help in this area is greatly appreciated and will help with my decision to purchase this plane. Oh, and the more detail, the better :)

Thank You!

[Evan D]

Welcome! The wings have covers and once removed the servos slide out. The elevators are held in with two screws each, the rudders are glued in, and the nose gear doors servo is screwed in. Don't be scared of glued in servos, they are not difficult to pull out. The Motion rep was just wrong, none have plastic covers that are glued over them.

With regard to F22 Serviceability (mainly servos) but all aspects welcome as well.





I'm new to Hobby Squawk, so I apologize if this is out in left field, but I would love to hear some feedback.

I have been researching the FW 90mm F22 and have read on the Motion-rc website that the F22 horizontal stabs, aileron and flap servos are housed in plastic trays for easy servicing.
My first question is, how are the rudder servos housed within the vertical stabilizers? I am hoping they too are easily serviceable and not glued in or something.
Most of the pics and vids I see of the rudder servos make it difficult to tell.

In a nutshell, with great care taken, I'd like to be able to service and replace the servos and components of this plane through the years without any damage to the foam.

Lastly, I spoke to a Motion-rc rep. He told me that there are plastic covers glued over the servos and that they can be removed easily with an exacto-knife without any damage to the foam.

Same question for the front landing gear door servo.

Any help in this area is greatly appreciated and will help with my decision to purchase this plane. Oh, and the more detail, the better :)

Thank You!

[TECHSING]

Thank You Evan D, Much appreciated!
I am glad to hear glued in servos are not difficult to pull out of foam.
I've R&R'd servos, but never from foam, as this would be my first foam body plane.
Do you feel that its safe to say that removing the rudder servo from the vertical stabilizer would most likely not pull foam off of the stabilizer along with the glue?

I've always had a desire to keep equipment as original as possible and don't like the idea of having to buy a new wing surface regardless of the price for a simple servo.

Thanks again...

[janmb]

Agreed with Jan. My CG is closer to 140mm with the taileron edges set at 5.5mm up from the bottom edge of the foam at the tips. But you would think that at 150mm, you'd need more up elevator to counter-act a nose heavy situation and not down elevator. Something seems very wrong with your bird Tom. I also want to see a pic of the trailing edge of the elevators, and specifically the glued-on foam pieces just inside them.

If your CG is closer to 140mm (back from the wing leading edge), that is even more nose heavy and should require even more up elevator trim for neutral flight. Meaning less than 5.5 up from the bottom foam edge.


But yes, Pogo's elevators are a curios thing indeed. With 150mm CG one would expect something around the 5.5mm from bottom edge as the manual calls for (which is actually a fair bit of up elevator trim since the plane is nose heavy at 150). The by far most likely explanation would in general be that the CG is indeed more tail heavy than 150, maybe more like 160-170 (I currently fly mine around 175, but please don't try that without going baby steps). But if that can be ruled out, I'm not really sure that else to look for. It is hard to imagine the AoA of the wings are SO different from one model to another to explain this much difference in elevator positions. Even at 175, my elevators are more positive than Pogo's I think.

[Evan D]

They use a kind of silicon sealant that isn’t really glue. Run a sharp blade around the servo and rock it back and forth and it comes out easily...

Thank You Evan D, Much appreciated!
I am glad to hear glued in servos are not difficult to pull out of foam.
I've R&R'd servos, but never from foam, as this would be my first foam body plane.
Do you feel that its safe to say that removing the rudder servo from the vertical stabilizer would most likely not pull foam off of the stabilizer along with the glue?

I've always had a desire to keep equipment as original as possible and don't like the idea of having to buy a new wing surface regardless of the price for a simple servo.

Thanks again...

[TECHSING]

Thank You very much Evan D!!!
I've decided. I'm going to pull the trigger and order her :)

[Hardway]

Thank You very much Evan D!!!
I've decided. I'm going to pull the trigger and order her :)

Techsing, welcome to Hobby Squawk! You will enjoy the F-22. She is a great bird and excellent flier!!! Glad you are here!! Jerry