Official Freewing 90mm F-4 Phantom II Thread

[Clearblue]

Nice Pictures as usual Tony! I might have missed it, but are you flying the 6s, or 8s version? Thanks.

Jim.

[Helmsman52]

Decisions, decisions ... I pre ordered the 6s version the day she was announced and now I’m second guessing because I fly off of grass. I should get the 8s for that reason but I’d have to wait until May lol

[Sky Wolf]

If you cancel your order please let me know. I'd like to take that spot on the first run. I freaking missed it!!! Thought about it a day too long.

[crxmanpat]

Jim,

All flying by Tony this weekend was done on 6S packs, 5000 and 5800 I believe.

[Alpha]

Decisions, decisions ... I pre ordered the 6s version the day she was announced and now I’m second guessing because I fly off of grass. I should get the 8s for that reason but I’d have to wait until May lol

Hi Helmsman52, if you have any of our other Freewing jets flying off of your grass, then you can be assured the F-4 will handle it fine. I'd rank the Avanti, A-10, Stinger 90, F-4 all near the top in terms of grass handling. Wide stance, tall mains, trailing links, good thrust, good positioning of mains, etc all play a part.

[xplaneguy]

Nice Pictures as usual Tony! I might have missed it, but are you flying the 6s, or 8s version? Thanks.

Jim.

Hey Jim! I'm flying the 6S version. All but one of my 8 flights at AEF were with the new Admiral 6S 5000 packs, and one with a RT5800.

[apmech1]

RCJD,

Good one. Maybe I'll catch the next batch. I will have one eventually.

Dr Death There's a good Blue Angels story that occurred in 1971 at an Iowa Air show. Number 4 forgot to lower his gear and belly landed down the runway with a hail of sparks. The Naval aviator was promptly sent to Vietnam.

I have video called "Threshold: The Blue Angels Experience". It the blues when they were runnin the F-4Js. My favorite movie from when I was a kid. Leslie Neilson narrated it. It shows video of the mishap you are speaking of. As soon as I saw MRC was releasing a Phantom, my sons and I geeked out and watched it again!

[roys001]

Great job MRC and XPlaneGuy for the win with the F-4 at AEF. I’ve really enjoyed watching the video’s on YouTube. Of course i’ve already put in my Pre-Order. I can’t wait to get it. I have enjoyed flying the A-10 and A-4 so much. I always get complements when I bring the two out to the fied. The F-4 will be a great addition to the collection. Thank you MRC for adding this wonderful plane to your line up.

[Shirty]

All of the black exhaust coming out of Thunderbird #1 would blacken the tail. It was easier for them to just paint it black to hide the dirt. #4 is the slot pilot, always tucked right behind the leader. Most say the #4 is the best pilot as he has three planes to watch out for during maneuvers.

Ah ok, thanks for the info. You think they'd just ciean the plane after each flight lazy buggers. Lol ;)

[Alpha]

Here are some photos of the 3DPUP set, painted up, to help you all envision the detail level you can expect from our factory pre-printed sets, and from the print-ready files we'll be making available for download next month. The ejection seats and center consoles are my favorite parts, but the side panels and other areas really tie it all together and gives you a good foundation from which to take detailing even further.

Also, we created a decal set for various instruments and gauges, to help enliven the 3DPUP beyond user's paintjobs. I think you'd all appreciate the decals, and they'll add very little to the final retail price for the complete Set (which is still TBD). Note, not shown in these photos are the two crew ladders, and the clear plastic screen on the pilot's HUD. We've also adjusted the proportions of that screen's base for the final production version.

The WSO's panels are open for accentuation depending on the variant you chose to model. Paint those helmets and add handlebar mustaches as you wish.

[RCjetdude]

Absolutely Fantastic! How will one acquire the HUD screen and decals if printing their own parts?

[TiredIronGRB]

Beautiful! I need to work on a graphic for the floor (rear cockpit) to give it some depth.

[Alpha]

TiredIron, that's a good idea. Cutting away the floor is another idea that would achieve cooling airflow plus depth. Perhaps cut away the existing foam floor and replacing most of it with a decal on a thin styrene sub-floor while still leaving some area for air to seep in and out.

You all can take things to the next level from here. I wish I had time to play with it a little more, but the workers painted this one and I'm just posting photos here. 'Too busy working on other... things.

[TiredIronGRB]

Too busy working on other... things.

Yeah, yeah, yeah...get back at it "James Bond" of RC :P

[Clearblue]

Thanks Pat and Tony! I've been reading what OV and Acemigkiller have been writing about the difference between the two. and just trying to clarify that in my common guy brain! Day by day I'm being drawn into the F4 web! :-)

Jim

[F106DeltaDart]

That cockpit looks absolutely beautiful! At first glance, I would have thought I was looking at a Tamiya kit or something. Definitely will be a must have add-on for the Phantom!

[RickVB]

Alpha, I hear you saying about the power system that you selected that the 6s/9-blade system is the best balance among all the factors. It appears to perform adequately as you have developed it from the videos I've seen. However, some of us wouldn't mind spending another $200-$300 to get the best performance possible from a 6s system in this plane (in other words, willing to sacrifice price for performance). Other than going to the 8s system, do you have a recommendation as to what could be used in this airframe for the best 6s performance possible?

By the way, I *am* already on the hook for a 6s PNP, so your answer will not effect your bottom line in my case... ;)

[Alpha]

Alpha, I hear you saying about the power system that you selected that the 6s/9-blade system is the best balance among all the factors. It appears to perform adequately as you have developed it from the videos I've seen. However, some of us wouldn't mind spending another $200-$300 to get the best performance possible from a 6s system in this plane (in other words, willing to sacrifice price for performance). Other than going to the 8s system, do you have a recommendation as to what could be used in this airframe for the best 6s performance possible?

By the way, I *am* already on the hook for a 6s PNP, so your answer will not effect your bottom line in my case... ;)

Hi RickVB,
You'd have to define "best performance" before I can accurately answer that. Speed, static thrust, dynamic thrust, vertical performance, weight, cost, efficiency, consumption.... all of these variables are intertwined.

Your question implies that 6s is a fixed variable, so that simplifies things somewhat. Remember that Amps x Volts = Watts. Your volts are your 6s battery. So, to increase your Watts (power), your amps will increase. Increasing the amps will decrease your flight duration, unless you use a larger capacity battery, which translates to more weight. As in economics, there is a point past which the marginal utility becomes and thereafter is increasingly moreso offset by the cost of that utility. Translation, you risk using a battery so heavy that the added power is negated because you're having to lug around a higher weight.

Some people will say "best" = "higher speed in a straight line". For them, again assuming voltage is fixed at 6s, they will almost always experience a shorter flight duration due to the higher amp draw. If you're into something like this, try a Jetfan 9B with an HET 1680kv inrunner. The JetFans are a great compromise between a 6B fan like HET's, which are excellent for speed but can be a bit shrill by modern EDF pilots' ears these days.

Some people will say "best" = "higher static thrust and great sound". For them, they'll usually end up trading the efficiency of a lower blade count fan for a higher blade count fan. Something like a 12B fan on a ~1500-1600kv outrunner. JP fans are excellent if you can get a good one. I recommend Gary at EffluxRC.com. Maybe he has a Mach you could try. Be mindful of the %FSA outlet preferences of the fan you're using, though. Different setups may prefer different %FSA diameter... widening or shrinking the stock exhaust outlets may be in order. Static v Dynamic thrust is a topic for another discussion, but it should be considered, too, if you're after the utmost in optimization.

Some people will say "best" = "balanced acceleration, speed, efficiency, cost, weight". For them, I'd say stick with the 6s PNP.

In all things, be wary of hype and buzzwords. Metal isn't always better than plastic, and ABS or plastic or FRP aren't always better than metal. Inrunners aren't always worth the weight penalty, outrunners aren't always as torque-y as they claim to be. Above all, remember that, within a given voltage, expect to see a lot of overlap in the performance of different fans. In other words, I can quite easily fly three F-4s with three different 6s power systems, and generally fly all three in a manner where most people wouldn't be able to tell the difference. I'm wary of spending 50% the cost of a PNP for a power system that increases my top speed by ~10mph, which isn't nearly as perceptible as one might expect in real life. The same can be said for battery capacity. Though I'm oversimplifying and the real calculation is nowhere near linear, in general the idea that going from a 5000mAh to a 6000mAh (20% increase) will double your flight time (100% increase) is nonsense.

I'm fond of saying, "The key to happiness is managed expectations".

Have fun,

[themudduck]

TiredIron, that's a good idea. Cutting away the floor is another idea that would achieve cooling airflow plus depth. Perhaps cut away the existing foam floor and replacing most of it with a decal on a thin styrene sub-floor while still leaving some area for air to seep in and out.

You all can take things to the next level from here. I wish I had time to play with it a little more, but the workers painted this one and I'm just posting photos here. 'Too busy working on other... things.

The cockpit looks incredible.

"things", huh. Like to see what you're doing, we all would. But patient, we must be. BAH. (if you had a PPV webcam behind your desk you could probably retire on the subscription fees...) LOL

Hey, I replaced the floor of my A10. I cut out the original foam floor and replaced it with a thin sheet of porous black foam, the kind you find in some electronic packaging. It's dark enough to look nice, but completely porous to allow air circulation. I added a joystick. The only problem is that the pilot's legs are amputated at the knees.... Oh well.

[bbaumer]

Time to cover a 500 foot runway at 110mph 3.1 seconds, at 100, 3.42 seconds.