Freewing 90mm F-22 Raptor - Official Thread

[Radar-Guy]

I think this setup come close to that wall, it’s a high drag airframe. I’m using 4500 mAh batteries, 475g each. It retains the floating characteristics of the stock 6s and gets amazing top speeds and vertical performance.
Alpha, did you ever measure performance without this ‘cheaters’?

[Radar-Guy]

That's a very long run and I witness that myself with some of my jets. My grass field is very similar to yours. Recently, I have been replacing the stock outrunners with inrunners (higher KV if I can find them) just to reduce the take off distance on that grass. I am reluctant to go 8s or more due to cost. I prefer to look for the inrunner "high speed" versions of a plane instead.

To be honest, I don’t support the FW “high speed” versions after some bad experiences. Those are Amp hogs IMHO and I prefer power with decent Amp consumption. But such fan units are somewhat costly.

[xviper]

To be honest, I don’t support the FW “high speed” versions after some bad experiences. Those are Amp hogs IMHO and I prefer power with decent Amp consumption. But such fan units are somewhat costly.

"Cost"! That's the key word. There is another thread going on where Alpha (Motion) is asking if they should be putting in the inrunner motor/fan in all their 90mm planes. They speak of better thrust, more efficiency while drawing less amps and give improvements in flight times with reasonable price increase. I'm a little confused about the "amps hogs" comment. :Confused:

[Evan D]

That’s Tom, not Alpha... I want the higher performance option but since Motion raised the prices on FW items recently I don’t agree with higher prices. I saw a good improvement with 8S and a smaller improvement from 8 to 10 but almost no improvement between 10 and 12.

"Cost"! That's the key word. There is another thread going on where Alpha (Motion) is asking if they should be putting in the inrunner motor/fan in all their 90mm planes. They speak of better thrust, more efficiency while drawing less amps and give improvements in flight times with reasonable price increase. I'm a little confused about the "amps hogs" comment. :Confused:

[Radar-Guy]

"Cost"! That's the key word. There is another thread going on where Alpha (Motion) is asking if they should be putting in the inrunner motor/fan in all their 90mm planes. They speak of better thrust, more efficiency while drawing less amps and give improvements in flight times with reasonable price increase. I'm a little confused about the "amps hogs" comment. :Confused:

If that would lead to more efficiency, I’ll support that idea. But when I see that the ‘High Speed’ Version comes with a 150A ESC (Standard one 130A), it’s pretty obvious how that is going to affect the flight times with the same battery. I don’t like those 2:30 min flights burning more than 4000 mAh (I had that experience with the 90mm F-16). But it would be great to see improvements here.
I’m still having a good connection to Mr. JePe from the Netherlands, who is in the EDF business since more than 20 years. He produced a lot of highly efficient EDF units and models at affordable prices. That’s what I’m still after in this part of the hobby...

[xviper]

That’s Tom, not Alpha... I want the higher performance option but since Motion raised the prices on FW items recently I don’t agree with higher prices. I saw a good improvement with 8S and a smaller improvement from 8 to 10 but almost no improvement between 10 and 12.

Sorry, my error. So, is Tom not spelling it out right in that thread? Is going inrunner NOT a good thing, especially for the reasons given in that thread?

[Evan D]

The thread is specifically about FreeWing 90mm EDFs and he's asking our opinion about the base powerplant being in runners instead of out runners for an increase of about $20-25. I think it's an excellent idea and worth the added money. My argument with Tom is really off topic. I said that since Motion recently increased the FreeWing EDFs $30-50+ that they should offer the inrunners at no additional cost (if it truly is only $20-25). His reply, Tom owns Motion, is they have not raised prices in six years... I called him out on that with some specific prices and he has been trying to maintain he hasn't raised prices. He then posted a list of all my purchases through him, he owns Motion, which proved my point that he has raised prices. I think his posting a list of all my purchases with dates and prices is very unprofessional of him. But as I said that's all off topic to the question of should the stock motor be an inrunner, which I think it should.

BTW I have spent over $13,000 at Motion directly, and have spent more tacking items (sometimes whole airplanes onto other peoples orders)… I'm sure you have spent quite a bit with them too and would not appreciate his posting how much you have spent in an public forum.

[James]

The thread is specifically about FreeWing 90mm EDFs and he's asking our opinion about the base powerplant being in runners instead of out runners for an increase of about $20-25. I think it's an excellent idea and worth the added money. My argument with Tom is really off topic. I said that since Motion recently increased the FreeWing EDFs $30-50+ that they should offer the inrunners at no additional cost (if it truly is only $20-25). His reply, Tom owns Motion, is they have not raised prices in six years... I called him out on that with some specific prices and he has been trying to maintain he hasn't raised prices. He then posted a list of all my purchases through him, he owns Motion, which proved my point that he has raised prices. I think his posting a list of all my purchases with dates and prices is very unprofessional of him. But as I said that's all off topic to the question of should the stock motor be an inrunner, which I think it should.

BTW I have spent over $13,000 at Motion directly, and have spent more tacking items (sometimes whole airplanes onto other peoples orders)… I'm sure you have spent quite a bit with them too and would not appreciate his posting how much you have spent in an public forum.

Hi Evan,

In the other thread, Tom was saying we haven't had a price increase in 6 years prior to the price increase earlier this year (and price decreases, those happened at the same time some prices went up). That's what he was getting at. And he was only talking about the brands we can control a bit like Freewing, FlightLine and Admiral (FMS, EFlite etc are determined by the manufacturers of those products). We acknowledged our price increase earlier this year and really had no choice. Prices have always been increasing in the back end and early this year it got to the breaking point on some items where some of that increase had to be passed to the customer as we had been eating it since our inception.

Basically, the price increase at the start of this year was the first price increase we had in 6 years.

[Evan D]

I do realize that James. Thank you. Tom and I have talked via both phone and PM..

Hi Evan,

In the other thread, Tom was saying we haven't had a price increase in 6 years prior to the price increase earlier this year (and price decreases, those happened at the same time some prices went up). That's what he was getting at. And he was only talking about the brands we can control a bit like Freewing, FlightLine and Admiral (FMS, EFlite etc are determined by the manufacturers of those products). We acknowledged our price increase earlier this year and really had no choice. Prices have always been increasing in the back end and early this year it got to the breaking point on some items where some of that increase had to be passed to the customer as we had been eating it since our inception.

Basically, the price increase at the start of this year was the first price increase we had in 6 years.

[xviper]

BTW I have spent over $13,000 at Motion directly, and have spent more tacking items (sometimes whole airplanes onto other peoples orders)… I'm sure you have spent quite a bit with them too and would not appreciate his posting how much you have spent in an public forum.

You are right. Although not as much as you, I have spent a lot of money with Motion, sometimes out of loyalty, even though I could have saved a few bucks by going elsewhere and by simply waiting a bit longer for the product to be available. And yes, I wouldn't like having my purchase history made public. That should be buyer/seller confidentiality.

[\o/woohoo]

I honestly think the 90mm fw jets are at home with 8s. 6s is doable definately but on a heavy airframe such as the f16 or yak 130 8s+ is a must.

[RuthR720]

I have the 8S Raptor and it flies great however it’s just not worth the additional cost. I fly with the batteries as far aft as they will go. The additional 2S battery shifts the CG forward which decreases flight performance. For a boost in performance I replaced the motor bearings in some of my jets with ceramic bearings and use high speed oil. The stock bearings are lubricated with grease and for the price they’re fine.

[bill34207]

I thought the 8s version is supposed to be inrunner. That photo is of an outrunner.
From Motion's product page...
"The Freewing F-22 is available in two PNP versions. The Standard version features a 90mm EDF with an all-new 9 blade single piece impeller, factory balanced for precise operation, paired with a 3748-1750kV outrunner brushless motor and 130A ESC. The Deluxe 8S version features a 90mm 12 blade impeller, also molded as a single unit and factory balanced, mounted to a powerful 4075-1390kV inrunner brushless motor and 150A ESC. The F-22’s maximum level airspeed has been measured at 170KPH / 106MPH and 190KPH / 119MPH between the Standard and Deluxe versions, respectively."

[RCjetdude]

Yes, the 8S is an inrunner. And even with my canopy mods it will still CG as designed with a 6S and 2S 5000 70C packs. The picture that RuthR720 has of the disassembled fan may be more representative of changing out the bearings than trying to claim it is 8S. It also is the 9 Blade fan which is the 6S setup.

[Evan D]

Pretty sure he’s just giving you an example and that’s not the F-22’s motor and fan.

[JamesonC]

150mph on 10s... that sounds about right in that airframe. We tested a couple 8s systems but not 10s. Two friends of mine converted theirs to fly 12s 6000! I wouldn't have believed it until I saw it fly with my own eyes. They definitely hit a drag wall though.

What's the white Freewing box in the front of that F22?? :Nerd:

[Evan D]

A gyro. They come in the F-104. Motion sells them. I like them since they are all manual (no computer) and have two aileron, elevator and rudder outputs.

https://www.motionrc.com/collections/airplane-gyros/products/freewing-3-axis-flight-stabilizer-gyro

[Radar-Guy]

Yes, the 8S is an inrunner. And even with my canopy mods it will still CG as designed with a 6S and 2S 5000 70C packs. The picture that RuthR720 has of the disassembled fan may be more representative of changing out the bearings than trying to claim it is 8S. It also is the 9 Blade fan which is the 6S setup.

To me it looks like a 5 blade fan from the good ol’ days of EDF...

[RCjetdude]

To me it looks like a 5 blade fan from the good ol’ days of EDF...

I think you may be right. My bad.

[JamesonC]

A gyro. They come in the F-104. Motion sells them. I like them since they are all manual (no computer) and have two aileron, elevator and rudder outputs.

https://www.motionrc.com/collections...tabilizer-gyro

I had never run across that before. Cool deal!