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Official Freewing Twin 80mm F-14D Tomcat Thread

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  • The 3 - 4 second flap deployment as already mentioned does help smooth the plane’s attitude change. I first started to do that but for some reason, it was too slow and created a glitch in the deployment - too choppy. I reduced the time to 2 seconds but that causes a somewhat abrupt reaction, making a bigger elevator compensation more necessary.

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    • Originally posted by SanExup View Post
      I guess I have assumed that holding rudder with bank will create a skidded turn and potentially stall the inside wing. And wouldn't full span flaps exacerbate that by creating more drag? I'm wondering what effect tailerons only has on creating or relieving adverse yaw? I thought with coordinated turns that you use rudder to initiate the turn but are looking to neutralize it once in the turn. I'm not claiming to know but simply trying to understand. I have yet to use full span flaps on any of my planes yet. Or mix in rudder control for coordinated turns. Again, I'm just trying to understand, to avoid the turn, stall, spin maneuver.
      No, you are not "holding" rudder in with the turn. You only get a tiny bit of rudder when rolling into and out of the turn when you apply left/right stick. You are correct in the second part of your paragraph there. The rudders are neutral once in the turn with the mix. 15% is a tiny amount. I noticed without the mix, the plane tends to adversely yaw in the opposite direction when rolled with full span flaps. This mix fixed it. You can watch how mine flies on my youtube channel. Just search "Greg Hoff." It's painted up as the VX-9 Black Bunny bird. I got this idea from watching the flight controls on the real jets. I watch F-18s and F-35s come aboard ship on a daily basis. They all have rudder mixed in with their aileron/taileron control via a flight control computer to make less work for the pilots. Also I fly the E-2 Hawkeye for a living. It requires a lot of rudder turning in and out of turns, but it's all manual. Just got back from a sortie a few hours ago and I'm writing this from the ship as a matter of fact...

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      • There isn't a general rule about needing rudder in turns. It all depends on the aircraft type and details of its control geometry. A typical high performance sailplane generally needs a lot of rudder in turns to counter adverse yaw from the ailerons, and a "yaw string" is often placed on the outside of the canopy in the pilot's line of sight to assist in getting the right amount. My (full size) Mooney has a compliant interconnect between the ailerons and rudder that almost counteracts the adverse yaw so only a little bit of rudder input is needed from me. I once had an R/C SE5a that would not turn at all with ailerons alone, it needed a load of rudder to make it turn.

        Aileron differential can counter adverse yaw quite effectively (except it has the wrong effect when flying inverted). Flaperons are likely to increase adverse yaw so more rudder is needed. Spoilerons, on the other hand . . . . etc.

        I find a little bit of AIL -> RUD mix helps some of my EDF jets when the flaps are down - reduces the workload on final approach. Again, it's counter-productive when flying inverted.

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        • Gvasiloff Greg, thanks for explaining it further. I was having a hard time visualizing the dynamics involved of full span flaps, the lift and drag induced by them, combined with tailerons and the rudder mix. I understand and use rudder for coordinated turns and have noticed that my different planes require different amounts of rudder input to initiate the turn. With your response the light came on, I think. I apologize for walking my mind through the parts and pieces, taking ip space on this thread, but it's helping me grasp it better.
          So, the flaps are just reshaping the wing, lift and drag, it doesn't upset anything, it's still just a wing. And slow deployment minimizes the effect on attitude. The taileron part maybe had me confused and thinking that the effect was the turn is being skidded, coming from the rear of the plane, and maybe blocking air flow over the inboard wing and maybe giving it an odd angle of attack. But that would only be occurring by holding rudder through the turn. And to repeat what you said, because now it's more clear to me, the rudder input happens with the initiation of bank angle. You aren't holding taileron through the turn so you're not holding rudder. That is the piece I was not seeing correctly. And rudder mix/input being 15%, minimal and what you found to be appropriate.
          I guess I was overthinking it and not able to visualize the effect. Like I said, I haven't used full span flaps yet. I'd like to but really want to understand the dynamics beforehand. I'd like to use spoilerons too but just like the full flaps, I'm hesitant until I fully grasp what they will do to the attitude and flight characteristics. I hope I didn't come off as challenging, but inquiring. I'm not afraid to learn or sound dumb while I am. I really just want to understand so that I can comfortably start using full flaps, flaperons, spoilerons, tailerons on EDFs. And programming mixes.

          Also, thanks for your service! I don't say that flippantly, it's full respect. I grew up as a navy brat and watched many E-2s, and all of the now retired jets, fly overhead at various bases. The first time I lived off base was when I went to college. I really want Flightline to make an E-2. I would love to have one! My brother was a career P3 pilot and retired a few years ago but still teaches in the sim. We talk a little about aeronautics and planes but he always wants to talk about anything else.
          Thanks for taking the time to answer my neophyte questions!

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          • kallend Thank you for that as well!

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            • Oh yeah after setting up with shutting off ailerons in sweep really makes it feel better in sweep. I also just ordered the components to setup an fpv canopy. Got the two gimbles in today, camera and transmitter is on the way. Also have the new canopy coming to install everything on to.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by SanExup View Post
                Gvasiloff Greg, thanks for explaining it further. I was having a hard time visualizing the dynamics involved of full span flaps, the lift and drag induced by them, combined with tailerons and the rudder mix. I understand and use rudder for coordinated turns and have noticed that my different planes require different amounts of rudder input to initiate the turn. With your response the light came on, I think. I apologize for walking my mind through the parts and pieces, taking ip space on this thread, but it's helping me grasp it better.
                So, the flaps are just reshaping the wing, lift and drag, it doesn't upset anything, it's still just a wing. And slow deployment minimizes the effect on attitude. The taileron part maybe had me confused and thinking that the effect was the turn is being skidded, coming from the rear of the plane, and maybe blocking air flow over the inboard wing and maybe giving it an odd angle of attack. But that would only be occurring by holding rudder through the turn. And to repeat what you said, because now it's more clear to me, the rudder input happens with the initiation of bank angle. You aren't holding taileron through the turn so you're not holding rudder. That is the piece I was not seeing correctly. And rudder mix/input being 15%, minimal and what you found to be appropriate.
                I guess I was overthinking it and not able to visualize the effect. Like I said, I haven't used full span flaps yet. I'd like to but really want to understand the dynamics beforehand. I'd like to use spoilerons too but just like the full flaps, I'm hesitant until I fully grasp what they will do to the attitude and flight characteristics. I hope I didn't come off as challenging, but inquiring. I'm not afraid to learn or sound dumb while I am. I really just want to understand so that I can comfortably start using full flaps, flaperons, spoilerons, tailerons on EDFs. And programming mixes.

                Also, thanks for your service! I don't say that flippantly, it's full respect. I grew up as a navy brat and watched many E-2s, and all of the now retired jets, fly overhead at various bases. The first time I lived off base was when I went to college. I really want Flightline to make an E-2. I would love to have one! My brother was a career P3 pilot and retired a few years ago but still teaches in the sim. We talk a little about aeronautics and planes but he always wants to talk about anything else.
                Thanks for taking the time to answer my neophyte questions!
                Sure thing. I would say, don't overthink it. Just try the full span flaps. It flies just fine that way. Just do it up high first and then try some apporaches.
                Also, I would love to see a Flightline E-2 as well!

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                • Started work on my F14 fpv system for pilot and RIO positions.

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                  • Originally posted by rifleman_btx View Post
                    Started work on my F14 fpv system for pilot and RIO positions.
                    RM, those are some very state of the art helmets. Bravo Zulu, Sir. Best, Steve
                    I solemnly swear to "over-celebrate" the smallest of victories.
                    ~Lucky B*st*rd~

                    You'll never be good at something unless you're willing to suck at it first.
                    ~Anonymous~

                    AMA#116446

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                    • Yes indeed. I was trying to get the hight correct.

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                      • Very cool!

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                        • Thanks y'all, hope I can have it complete by next week.

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                          • Well that's a new failure. Lol I guess that reinforcement was alittle too good.

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                            • rifleman_btx , did the NG strut shear off? Wow...that is good reinforcement. Best, Steve
                              I solemnly swear to "over-celebrate" the smallest of victories.
                              ~Lucky B*st*rd~

                              You'll never be good at something unless you're willing to suck at it first.
                              ~Anonymous~

                              AMA#116446

                              Comment


                              • Yeah at a new field, there's a ditch at the end of the runway I ran into. Tall trees at the other side, I just need to get a feel for the place. And this jet holds the energy.

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                                • I really would have thought the pin would have failed first, but nope the strut snapped like a twig.

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                                  • Does this look like a legit number with the 9 blade inrunner motors?

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                                    • Post no longer needed.

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                                      • Got some up close and personal drone chase footage of my F-14. Jonathan Hedges gets so close in some shots that you can clearly see the perfectly programmed full span flaps in action. I couldn't retract the wings, because he was flying his little quad at max effort to keep up, so I had to keep it in the pattern and a bit slow. Check it out!

                                        Freewing F-14 Tomcat Aerial Chase (4K) - https://youtu.be/VYttBK_D2Ac

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                                        • Originally posted by rifleman_btx View Post
                                          Does this look like a legit number with the 9 blade inrunner motors?
                                          Yea depending on batteries and flying conditions that day air density etc. Not unreasonable with the wings swept and the right power setup.

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