Official Freewing F/A-18C Hornet 90mm EDF Thread

[davegee]

I took my Freewing F-18C up for its maiden the other day. I had one of the guys in our club, a much better pilot than me who also flies turbine jets, at the controls for this first flight. It took off normally but veered to the right some after takeoff. He had difficulty trimming it out in aileron and rudder, having to add a lot of left aileron, and then a lot of left rudder trim to keep it flying straight. He eventually zeroed out the aileron trim before landing, but still kept 56 units of left rudder trim in the Spektrum DX18 I was using. He did not have to trim elevator at all, and it seemed pretty happy at about 96mm.

He got it on the ground safely, but I think it left him and me shaken a bit. We were both expecting a "routine" maiden of this airplane. I have had a couple of these before, and never had these control issues.

Here are a few thoughts and/or recommendations:

1) All control surfaces were checked and rechecked by me before the flight and both of us after the flight. They were all in the exact positions that they should be per the book, no mis- alignments side to side.

2) I did add a couple of Sidewinder missiles on the wingtips and two empty pylons (from a 90mm F-16 model) on the wings. I have heard someone having issues putting on wing pylons or missiles and then having control issues with the plane in flight. Not sure if this had any issue on the flight, but will fly the next one clean.

3) The pilot complained about a lack of power on the airplane. Could be partly to the fact we are at 5,000' MSL, but also a possibility(?) is that the modified ESC wiring cables could have had something to do with it. Just a guess. I had to splice in about 4 inches of 10 gauge wire as they were too short (coming from a F-15 model). I have ordered a new wiring harness from MRC specifically designed for the F-18.

4) Last, I have no gyro in it yet. Seems to me the space is too tight to ever get it that far back in the fuselage to be near the CG. I'm wondering if another receiver/gyro stabilizer is available that might dampen out minor excursions in its flight. Any recommendations?

Appreciate any thoughts on this. I would really like to get this plane dialed in to fly again. Not very confident putting it up again until it looks like these maiden flight issues have been handled.

Thanks,

davegee

[davegee]

Won't get far in this year's March Mayhem (I always crash and burn in the first round) with the F-18 Tiger Meet, but I did get this Hornet into April's 2022 edition of Model Aviation under the Focal Point section. :hugging: Have no idea who submitted it :lying_face: last October, so thanks for that. OK, I admit, I'm just a shameless publicity hound!

I just saw that, Hugh. Looks great! Congrats on getting it published in Model Aviation magazine. Always one of my favorite sections of the magazine each issue, Focalpoint.

Cheers

davegee

[Hugh Wiedman]

Won't get far in this year's March Mayhem (I always crash and burn in the first round) with the F-18 Tiger Meet, but I did get this Hornet into April's 2022 edition of Model Aviation under the Focal Point section. :hugging: Have no idea who submitted it :lying_face: last October, so thanks for that. OK, I admit, I'm just a shameless publicity hound!

[davegee]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-w7oc0LczBE


Hey Hornet Honchos, Check out this great Blue Angels Walkaround ewe-toob vid by Erik Johnston's Crew.

Former Navy F-18 and Blue's pilot (#'s 3&4 slots) Jerry Deren does the narration.

The airframe is located at Frontiers of Flight Museum in Dallas at Love Field.

Enjoy. Best, Steve

Thanks so much for posting that, Steve. Very informative from a guy who has "been there, done that" and conveys his extensive experience very well to the viewer. I also like the video with clear details of the aircraft which are very helpful as reference tools for making add-on or scratchbuilt mods to our models for greater realism.

Cheers

Dave

[Elbee]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-w7oc0LczBE

Hey Hornet Honchos, Check out this great Blue Angels Walkaround ewe-toob vid by Erik Johnston's Crew.

Former Navy F-18 and Blue's pilot (#'s 3&4 slots) Jerry Deren does the narration.

The airframe is located at Frontiers of Flight Museum in Dallas at Love Field.

Enjoy. Best, Steve

[Elbee]

Thanks, Steve. Again, Excellent design work on your part for the cockpit of the F-18, and of course the Corsair, too.

Me, either. With that thinking, we should embrace the name "Brown Angels" demonstration team, or something like that!

Hah, draw it up and I'll get with Callie. Let's just start a "new" squadron of "ole" Legacy Hornets. We need a mascot and livery for a vertical stab design. This could be 'most excellent'. Best, Steve

[davegee]

Excellent work davegee!

Thanks, Aros. The key was the outstanding STL files from Elbee!!

Dave

[davegee]

Nice Work Dave Gee!! Bravo Zulu. Acknowledged and Agreed with the "whole different subject." :dizzy_face: Cannot for the life of me get my head around that decision. Anywho, ya dun gud, Sir. Best, Steve

Thanks, Steve. Again, Excellent design work on your part for the cockpit of the F-18, and of course the Corsair, too.

Me, either. With that thinking, we should embrace the name "Brown Angels" demonstration team, or something like that!

[Gilatrout]

EJECT! EJECT! EJECT!

[Elbee]

...painted him up yesterday and the helmet reflects the markings I found online of a VFA-146 "Blue Diamonds" helmet. Notice I didn't say "Gray Diamonds" but that's a whole different subject! I'll attach some pics I just took of the finished pilot in the cockpit.

Nice Work Dave Gee!! Bravo Zulu. Acknowledged and Agreed with the "whole different subject." :dizzy_face: Cannot for the life of me get my head around that decision. Anywho, ya dun gud, Sir. Best, Steve

[Aros]

Excellent work davegee!

[davegee]

Sounds good, I'm sure the maiden will go well and the balance point of 97mm should be a good place to start. I also think I have a little more tail weight since both of mine have the 12 blade 1835Kv inrunner which is a bit heavier than the 9 blade inrunner, allowing me to use a 6200 mAh battery. You won't get as much thrust from the Admiral or Spektrum battery as you would from the SMC's I'm using (true C close to 40) as their true C is more like 18 to 22 C despite what it's marked at, but should still be enough.

The only thing to potentially watch for is one of the flaps not deploying in flight. It seems to be quite rare, but both of mine had that issue, lucky me. Flaps work fine on the ground (even if you hold them to see of the servo quits), but for some reason, occasionally one will get stuck in the up position in flight (and for me it's not always the same one). They go from take-off flaps to flaps up when taking off fine, but then when setting up to land, sometimes one does not deflect at all. I've tried a bunch of things to cure it, including bypassing the blue box /circuit board for both ailerons and flaps going directly into the receiver. Worked better for a while, then occasionally didn't. I've replaced flap servos and reduced the delay to 0, still hasn't completely cured it (although it hasn't happened for a while on either). With the delay at 0 and on one occasion, went from flaps up directly to landing flaps and it immediately got incredibly difficult to control and damn near totaled it (saved by 12 foot high cane giving it a soft set down). I'm currently using a 1.5 second delay and always come by first with 1/2 flaps to visually confirm both are working before going to full flaps. Have this same issue on both B-24's and my Avanti and going to a 0-1 second delay has cured it for good on those, but still a little concerned on both Hornets, so just let him know of the potential issue and being ready to raise flaps quickly if it happens. With that said, I'm sure the probability of yours having this problem is extremely low.

Thanks for those valuable tips, Hugh. Yes, the possibility of an asymmetrical flap problem is a concern for me, especially on a pretty hot performer like the Hornet. I'll be sure to brief whoever does the maiden for me when we get to that point. I've had a number of weird asymmetrical flap issues on various airplanes, mostly props, but fortunately not too much in the jets that I have flown. But I'm always on the lookout for them coming up. I had a weird one years ago on the maiden of my Flightline Spitfire (the big one) when either flap would come down, uncommanded and then go back up again, on its own. We were lucky to get it down safely. I reported it to MRC, and they told me there were a handful of people complaining about the same thing. They gave me two new flap servos, and that was over 5 years ago. Haven't had it recur...yet!

Dave

[Hugh Wiedman]

Thanks for the info, Hugh. On my stock airplane with the stock cockpit (for now) I am getting about 97mm or so on the CG using a 5000 mAh Admiral or Spektrum smart battery. I am hoping to do the maiden in a few weeks. Since I have lost a couple of these planes in the past I am going to have one of our jet experts in our club to to the maiden for me while I observe and help out if he needs me to by adjusting trim or whatever. Still windy and chilly up here, but Spring is definitely approaching!

Sounds good, I'm sure the maiden will go well and the balance point of 97mm should be a good place to start. I also think I have a little more tail weight since both of mine have the 12 blade 1835Kv inrunner which is a bit heavier than the 9 blade inrunner, allowing me to use a 6200 mAh battery. You won't get as much thrust from the Admiral or Spektrum battery as you would from the SMC's I'm using (true C close to 40) as their true C is more like 18 to 22 C despite what it's marked at, but should still be enough.

The only thing to potentially watch for is one of the flaps not deploying in flight. It seems to be quite rare, but both of mine had that issue, lucky me. Flaps work fine on the ground (even if you hold them to see of the servo quits), but for some reason, occasionally one will get stuck in the up position in flight (and for me it's not always the same one). They go from take-off flaps to flaps up when taking off fine, but then when setting up to land, sometimes one does not deflect at all. I've tried a bunch of things to cure it, including bypassing the blue box /circuit board for both ailerons and flaps going directly into the receiver. Worked better for a while, then occasionally didn't. I've replaced flap servos and reduced the delay to 0, still hasn't completely cured it (although it hasn't happened for a while on either). With the delay at 0 and on one occasion, went from flaps up directly to landing flaps and it immediately got incredibly difficult to control and damn near totaled it (saved by 12 foot high cane giving it a soft set down). I'm currently using a 1.5 second delay and always come by first with 1/2 flaps to visually confirm both are working before going to full flaps. Have this same issue on both B-24's and my Avanti and going to a 0-1 second delay has cured it for good on those, but still a little concerned on both Hornets, so just let him know of the potential issue and being ready to raise flaps quickly if it happens. With that said, I'm sure the probability of yours having this problem is extremely low.

[davegee]

Now that I see your pilot, yes it is a different one than what I used. Better than the shoulder/head pilot it comes with. I've got several of the same pilot you used in my "pilot inventory" and it is a FW pilot but can't remember what aircraft they came in. The one I used in the Tiger Hornet has moveable arms, but those stupid gloves are annoying.

Regarding the CG, on the Hornet with the 3D cockpit I think I put 3/4 ounce in each elevator bay. That, along with a little weight for the afterburner allowed me to achieve a maximum rearward CG of 105mm with a 6200 weighing 814 gr. I also put all electronics, RX and wires under the battery tray so I could move the battery as far back as possible. The RX is under the front part of the tray (away from the battery and cables) with the antennae going up to the nose and a remote satellite is all the way in the back of the tray with antennae going around the fuselage. In the Tiger Hornet, I set it up the same with electronics and RX, but am able to get to 112mm (not that I want to) with no lead in the elevator bay. Currently flying both at 102mm.

Your cockpit is outstanding and the scheme on his helmet is so realistic. Can't wait to see the finished product!

Thanks for the info, Hugh. On my stock airplane with the stock cockpit (for now) I am getting about 97mm or so on the CG using a 5000 mAh Admiral or Spektrum smart battery. I am hoping to do the maiden in a few weeks. Since I have lost a couple of these planes in the past I am going to have one of our jet experts in our club to to the maiden for me while I observe and help out if he needs me to by adjusting trim or whatever. Still windy and chilly up here, but Spring is definitely approaching!

[Hugh Wiedman]

Regarding the pilot I just found in my work room, I think it might possibly have come from an old airplane, maybe the Freewing F-15. This one is about a 3/4 body, and fits well into the Hornet cockpit. I think it is probably a different one from what you used in your picture, based on the hands position of the pilot, though. I painted him up yesterday and the helmet reflects the markings I found online of a VFA-146 "Blue Diamonds" helmet. Notice I didn't say "Gray Diamonds" but that's a whole different subject!

I acknowledge your comments on the weight of the scale cockpit and pilot, and how you have to put counterweights in the tail to compensate for the CG. Having to move the battery back just to fit the cockpit in will be a help to move the CG back some, but I can see putting some weights in the tail as you indicated. How much weight did you have to put in the tail to get it to the 100mm point CG?

I'm going to use the stock cockpit for at least the first several flights until I get it "dialed in."

Dave

Now that I see your pilot, yes it is a different one than what I used. Better than the shoulder/head pilot it comes with. I've got several of the same pilot you used in my "pilot inventory" and it is a FW pilot but can't remember what aircraft they came in. The one I used in the Tiger Hornet has moveable arms, but those stupid gloves are annoying.

Regarding the CG, on the Hornet with the 3D cockpit I think I put 3/4 ounce in each elevator bay. That, along with a little weight for the afterburner allowed me to achieve a maximum rearward CG of 105mm with a 6200 weighing 814 gr. I also put all electronics, RX and wires under the battery tray so I could move the battery as far back as possible. The RX is under the front part of the tray (away from the battery and cables) with the antennae going up to the nose and a remote satellite is all the way in the back of the tray with antennae going around the fuselage. In the Tiger Hornet, I set it up the same with electronics and RX, but am able to get to 112mm (not that I want to) with no lead in the elevator bay. Currently flying both at 102mm.

Your cockpit is outstanding and the scheme on his helmet is so realistic. Can't wait to see the finished product!

[davegee]

Dave, I think I probably used that same Motion RC pilot in my Tiger F-18 and cut his lower half off at the waist. It was slightly larger than the stock pilot. Didn't do the outstanding Elbee cockpit in that one to keep the nose weight down since I had a hell of a time getting the CG back around 100mm or more in the first Canadian one. As I said before, that full cockpit mod and pilot must have added about an extra 250 gr and ended up having to put lead in the elevator servo bays to get it back from the nose heavy 88mm they recommend. You'll notice the full 3D cockpit extends down into the battery bay and you'll have to put the battery further back just to fit it in, but then you'll want to anyway to get the CG correct.

Hi Hugh: that is an incredible paint job on your Hornet, I say again: "well done!!"

Regarding the pilot I just found in my work room, I think it might possibly have come from an old airplane, maybe the Freewing F-15. This one is about a 3/4 body, and fits well into the Hornet cockpit. I think it is probably a different one from what you used in your picture, based on the hands position of the pilot, though. I painted him up yesterday and the helmet reflects the markings I found online of a VFA-146 "Blue Diamonds" helmet. Notice I didn't say "Gray Diamonds" but that's a whole different subject!

I'll attach some pics I just took of the finished pilot in the cockpit. One of them is a rear view of an actual VFA-146 helmet I found online. I'll probably use him at least initially, before deciding if I want to use the Jet Hangar pilot figure. I'd prefer not to have to cut and whittle that one down to fit, maybe use it on a new, different project someday.

I acknowledge your comments on the weight of the scale cockpit and pilot, and how you have to put counterweights in the tail to compensate for the CG. Having to move the battery back just to fit the cockpit in will be a help to move the CG back some, but I can see putting some weights in the tail as you indicated. How much weight did you have to put in the tail to get it to the 100mm point CG?

I'm going to use the stock cockpit for at least the first several flights until I get it "dialed in."

Dave

[Hugh Wiedman]

I'll be respectful of his "naughty bits."

When I was rooting around my shop this afternoon, I found a Motion RC pilot that is a 3/4 body, and probably slightly smaller than what I think the one from Jet Hangar Hobbies "fat ass" pilot is. I've painted some insignia on him to signify the plane he's flying, VFA-146 Blue Diamonds. If I find that the jet hangar pilot is going to be too much to cut down to look good, I think I'll just use this pilot, which is probably a little more in scale to this cockpit. I can always use the jet hangar pilot for a future project, someday.

davegee

Dave, I think I probably used that same Motion RC pilot in my Tiger F-18 and cut his lower half off at the waist. It was slightly larger than the stock pilot. Didn't do the outstanding Elbee cockpit in that one to keep the nose weight down since I had a hell of a time getting the CG back around 100mm or more in the first Canadian one. As I said before, that full cockpit mod and pilot must have added about an extra 250 gr and ended up having to put lead in the elevator servo bays to get it back from the nose heavy 88mm they recommend. You'll notice the full 3D cockpit extends down into the battery bay and you'll have to put the battery further back just to fit it in, but then you'll want to anyway to get the CG correct.

[davegee]

incredible degree of detail. stay away from the trees... don't be like me.

Thanks. Shouldn't be too hard staying out of the trees here in northwest Wyoming. Pretty much desert where our field is, tallest obstacle is sagebrush!

Davegee

[davegee]

Just be careful not to cut off any of his private parts, he'll need 'em to fly this bad boy!

I'll be respectful of his "naughty bits."

When I was rooting around my shop this afternoon, I found a Motion RC pilot that is a 3/4 body, and probably slightly smaller than what I think the one from Jet Hangar Hobbies "fat ass" pilot is. I've painted some insignia on him to signify the plane he's flying, VFA-146 Blue Diamonds. If I find that the jet hangar pilot is going to be too much to cut down to look good, I think I'll just use this pilot, which is probably a little more in scale to this cockpit. I can always use the jet hangar pilot for a future project, someday.

davegee

[jasmith41]

Hugh, just looking at your hanger... i'll see you and raise you about 8...
holy fk - PJ50 came in today and it's going to sit in the box with the FW 80mm A10 and Mig 29 until i can figure out to sneak them home and into the hangar...🤣