Official Freewing MiG-29 Fulcrum Twin 80mm Thread

[Evan D]

Value is different for everyone. Is it worth the money? In my opinion yes. You get a very large and impressive aircraft for your $749 + $94.29. I would not buy this plane without the TVs. Not only does it help get you out of the alpha lock that has been mentioned but it makes it nimble, as nimble as a plane this big can be. Simply there is no other aircraft like it on the market today, to quote Nick Bolton on television.

But again, it is a big expensive airplane. It also needs two decent 5000-6000 size batteries, a receiver, and (in my opinion) needs to fly off pavement...

I get way more than 3 minutes on 5200's. But everyone is going to get flight time depending on their flying style (and quality of their batteries).

No way i can read trough 5500 posts here, but is this model still worth the money?

[Hugh Wiedman]

100% agree with Evan D that it is worth the money assuming you add TV nozzles and have a good "real" high C battery packs. It's impressive in the air as well as on the ground. The only thing I may disagree on is that it will fly off of grass with little to no problems. Both RudyD54 and I fly off grass and even before adding the TV nozzles or the upgraded FMS fans, it got off just fine and enjoyed settling in on landing on the grass with minimal roll out. Our take-off distance with the FMS fans is no longer than the majority of EDF's I have.

[RudyD54]

Agreed. To this day it’s still one of my overall favorites to fly and zero issues with grass takeoffs even prior to getting good batteries. The TVs are a must though.

[kallend]

Value is different for everyone. Is it worth the money? In my opinion yes. You get a very large and impressive aircraft for your $749 + $94.29. I would not buy this plane without the TVs. Not only does it help get you out of the alpha lock that has been mentioned but it makes it nimble, as nimble as a plane this big can be. Simply there is no other aircraft like it on the market today, to quote Nick Bolton on television.

But again, it is a big expensive airplane. It also needs two decent 5000-6000 size batteries, a receiver, and (in my opinion) needs to fly off pavement...

I get way more than 3 minutes on 5200's. But everyone is going to get flight time depending on their flying style (and quality of their batteries).

But a stock Sukhoi 35 will still fly rings around it, has not needed remediation to eliminate really bad habits (aka crashing) and comes complete with TV.

[gr8pics]

Value is different for everyone. Is it worth the money? In my opinion yes. You get a very large and impressive aircraft for your $749 + $94.29. I would not buy this plane without the TVs. Not only does it help get you out of the alpha lock that has been mentioned but it makes it nimble, as nimble as a plane this big can be. Simply there is no other aircraft like it on the market today, to quote Nick Bolton on television.

But again, it is a big expensive airplane. It also needs two decent 5000-6000 size batteries, a receiver, and (in my opinion) needs to fly off pavement...

I get way more than 3 minutes on 5200's. But everyone is going to get flight time depending on their flying style (and quality of their batteries).

Thanks mate, thats what i wanted to hear!

About batteries, do you know if it can take the Spektrum 6s 7000 packs?
I actually like to fly more scale just cruising around in slower movements, not flipping it around like a coin, but sometimes its nice to have the ability to rip it. with that kind flying, i should be able to get 5-6 mins on 6000, or?

[gr8pics]

If you can handle or like the gracefulness of a pretty sluggish aeroplane (without thrust vectors) that needs two 6s batteries for about 3 minutes of motor time. With that nasty and costly habit of getting stuck in high alpha if you do some aerobatics.

You need a lot of batteries or the possibilty to charge at a high C-rate at the flying field.

Whats the minimum c-rate for easy crusing, and no ripping?

[gr8pics]

100% agree with Evan D that it is worth the money assuming you add TV nozzles and have a good "real" high C battery packs. It's impressive in the air as well as on the ground. The only thing I may disagree on is that it will fly off of grass with little to no problems. Both RudyD54 and I fly off grass and even before adding the TV nozzles or the upgraded FMS fans, it got off just fine and enjoyed settling in on landing on the grass with minimal roll out. Our take-off distance with the FMS fans is no longer than the majority of EDF's I have.

Yea, the wheel size looks like the same as on my Viper 90. People fly off grass with even smaller wheels that that, such as a Viper 70, unless its unplowed field with grass on top.

[gr8pics]

But a stock Sukhoi 35 will still fly rings around it, has not needed remediation to eliminate really bad habits (aka crashing) and comes complete with TV.

Does this one have a bad habbit of crashing?

[kallend]

Does this one have a bad habbit of crashing?

I suggest you read the early posts in this thread, particularly those relating to why the FFS servos needed replacing, and those relating to alpha-lock.

[Evan D]

When I said in my opinion best to fly off paved runway it was more about how some have noted that the main gear area foam gets soft and the gear develops a toe out warp. And I did say my opinion...

While I have flown with 6000 I settled on 5200 50C 645g batteries I use in many aircraft. They balance the plane well and give me 5:30 of flight time. About the Spektrum 7000 30C G2. First I will never buy a Spektrum battery, I think there are many other batteries that are better quality. Second it's only 30C. Third its "smart" and unless you stay in that ecosystem (smart chargers) it doesn't make sense. But, they are 720g and that will balance well as long as you have the TVs. They are a bit wide and if you need to use the center battery space you may need to cut a little foam under the canopy for clearance.



Talk about not having anything to do with his question...

But a stock Sukhoi 35 will still fly rings around it, has not needed remediation to eliminate really bad habits (aka crashing) and comes complete with TV.

[Evan D]

Early on there were a few videos with crashes. Most looked like they could not pull out of dives and they showed the people using heavy batteries in the forward and aft battery spots. The TV units were not out at that point and there was no way those planes were balanced even to the manuals slightly nose heavy recommendation. To me it looked like the people didn't read the manual and didn't know there was a third, the center, spot to place a battery. It also looked like they put the servo linkage into the outer hole of the servo arm causing the elevator servos to work harder. My opinion is they caused the crashed themselves. When I built mine with the original servos I had no issues flying it.


Later Motion sent out new, slightly higher torque, elevator servos to people that had bought the first kits and put these servos in kits they sent out (they just put them in the box, not installed in the plane). Still later on FreeWing started putting in even higher torque servos and upgraded linkage on the planes.

There was a lot of discussion about the crashes and possible fixes here in the forums. I won't go into all of the opinions, it's an interesting read. At the end of the day higher torque servos and better linkage has seemed to stop the reported crashes.

Maybe separate (you'll have various opinions on this too) is the "alpha lock" issue where it gets into high alpha and you can't get it out. Throttle makes it worse. When the TVs came out and people installed them they do help get you out of alpha lock.

My opinion is the two issues are not related. My opinion is that if you have TVs there is no crashing bad habit. My opinion is that the big Mig does handle a bit odd, like it's on the edge pitch wise. Because of this I do my antics higher than with other planes. Does it make buying one a bad decision? That's a decision you'll have to make.

Does this one have a bad habbit of crashing?

[xviper]

About batteries, do you know if it can take the Spektrum 6s 7000 packs?
I actually like to fly more scale just cruising around in slower movements, not flipping it around like a coin, but sometimes its nice to have the ability to rip it. with that kind flying, i should be able to get 5-6 mins on 6000, or?

You spoke of "value" and "worth it" earlier. This is a prime example of this concept. Read Evan's comments of the real world load tested C-rating for these batteries. Personally, I wouldn't touch these things with a barge poll, especially for a high draw system like an EDF. There's a couple of guys at my field who have some Spektrum batteries and they use them on their less draw prop planes. The "smartness" isn't really of any use after the initial "discovery" period. They work "OK" for the prop planes but when they put them into their small, lower performance EDFs, they are very disappointing.

[gr8pics]

You spoke of "value" and "worth it" earlier. This is a prime example of this concept. Read Evan's comments of the real world load tested C-rating for these batteries. Personally, I wouldn't touch these things with a barge poll, especially for a high draw system like an EDF. There's a couple of guys at my field who have some Spektrum batteries and they use them on their less draw prop planes. The "smartness" isn't really of any use after the initial "discovery" period. They work "OK" for the prop planes but when they put them into their small, lower performance EDFs, they are very disappointing.

I have to disagree with you on the Spektrum batteries, i use them in my Viper 90, around 100 flights, never any issues whatsoever. They also charge nicely with the Spektrum smart charger. Must be one of the most stable lipo batteries ive had the past 20 years.

[HangarQueen]

I have to disagree with you on the Spektrum batteries, i use them in my Viper 90, around 100 flights, never any issues whatsoever. They also charge nicely with the Spektrum smart charger. Must be one of the most stable lipo batteries ive had the past 20 years.

You might be okay with them, but the fact remains is that they for instance those advertised as 100C, but in reality closer to 25C, relatively heavy for a 25C battery, and overpriced in comparison with other better performing batteries. I would never buy them, as there are much cheaper, lighter and better performing batteries available.

[Evan D]

Are you disagreeing on value, suitability, performance???? Are you talking about the 7000 30C?

I don't have any of the 7000 30C, in fact I don't have a single Spek or smart battery. But how can you consider a battery that cost $190 (plus tax) each a value? I have a dozen of these and love them, $72ea, no tax, free shipping.

Amazon.com: Socokin 6S Lipo Battery Soft Case 6000mAh 22.2V 60C with EC5 Plug for RC Model Racing Car RC Car Truck Boat RC Quadcopter Airplane Drone Helicopter : Toys & Games

And, as I mentioned, you have to be within the Spektrum Smart eco system to get any advantage with them.

I have to disagree with you on the Spektrum batteries, i use them in my Viper 90, around 100 flights, never any issues whatsoever. They also charge nicely with the Spektrum smart charger. Must be one of the most stable lipo batteries ive had the past 20 years.

[xviper]

I think I'll bow out of the Spektrum battery thing after this post. If you are happy with what you get for what you pay, then so be it. I have the Viper 90 as do several others where I fly. The Viper 90 is a very versatile jet and can fly anywhere from "OK" to spectacular. If you have nothing else to compare it to, then this ranking has no meaning. Our Vipers can perform very nicely on low performing batteries to outstanding on top tier batteries. You will never know or see the difference if you haven't tested it. Put in a ChinaHobbyLine 65C (35 - 40C real world load test) or an SMC 40C (real world 38C) and you may see that your "never any issues whatsoever" was only mediocre to "I had no idea", buy hey, not knowing can be bliss. Horizon Hobby loves "blissfully not knowing". They are ecstatic that all their marketing did what they wanted it to do - selling low/mid tier products for over-the-top tier prices.
As scientists say ........................ "QED".

[gr8pics]

I think I'll bow out of the Spektrum battery thing after this post. If you are happy with what you get for what you pay, then so be it. I have the Viper 90 as do several others where I fly. The Viper 90 is a very versatile jet and can fly anywhere from "OK" to spectacular. If you have nothing else to compare it to, then this ranking has no meaning. Our Vipers can perform very nicely on low performing batteries to outstanding on top tier batteries. You will never know or see the difference if you haven't tested it. Put in a ChinaHobbyLine 65C (35 - 40C real world load test) or an SMC 40C (real world 38C) and you may see that your "never any issues whatsoever" was only mediocre to "I had no idea", buy hey, not knowing can be bliss. Horizon Hobby loves "blissfully not knowing". They are ecstatic that all their marketing did what they wanted it to do - selling low/mid tier products for over-the-top tier prices.
As scientists say ........................ "QED".

I was just asking, if they can be used, if they fit, and are strong enough for this model, without any ripping, as i already got 4 of them. Im not worried about the quality itself

[Evan D]

I assume you saw my answer. There are three battery areas on this plane to help balance it with or without the tail weight added when adding the TVs. Without TV you'll need to use the rear and middle spots and because the 7000 is wide you may have to remove some foam under the canopy. If you install the TVs you'll be right on the edge of rear and forward or rear and center. If you balance it on the marks you will want rear and forward. If you balance it aft of the marks, as many on here do, you'll be in that no man's land of R&F being too far forward and R&C being too far aft. But it's workable.

Strong enough is something you'll have to decide for yourself.

[radfordc]

Early on there were a few videos with crashes. Most looked like they could not pull out of dives and they showed the people using heavy batteries in the forward and aft battery spots. The TV units were not out at that point and there was no way those planes were balanced even to the manuals slightly nose heavy recommendation. To me it looked like the people didn't read the manual and didn't know there was a third, the center, spot to place a battery. It also looked like they put the servo linkage into the outer hole of the servo arm causing the elevator servos to work harder. My opinion is they caused the crashed themselves. When I built mine with the original servos I had no issues flying it.

I've told my story here before but I guess one more time is needed!

My 6000mah batteries were located in the center and aft location. I added additional lead weight to the tail to bring the CG 10mm aft of the recommended location in the manual. The servos were the replacement ones provided by MRC after crashes started happening and the linkages were correct.

I had flown a normal flight and was ready to land. I turned onto the downwind leg and hit the gear switch and without thinking also hit the flap down switch. The jet immediately pitched 45 degrees nose down and I could not recover with full up elevator.

Make all the "suppositions" you want....

On my second plane I am very careful to get the gear down and the plane slowed before lowering the flaps and haven't had any problems....yet.

[Evan D]

Thanks.

Make all the "suppositions" you want....

Doesn't take away from my opinion that the first rash of crashes were because of poor battery placement and not following the instructions when assembling the elevator linkage OR that there was an issue with alpha lock.

What you have done is simply to say that there are other ways to crash your airplane and one is to deploy your flaps at speed.