Official Freewing MiG-29 Fulcrum Twin 80mm Thread

[radfordc]

What you have done is simply to say that there are other ways to crash your airplane and one is to deploy your flaps at speed.

Yep...just like I saw in all those early videos.

[Evan D]

Oh, the ones with the batteries and linkages in the wrong spots and not lowering the flaps at speed, got it.

Yep...just like I saw in all those early videos.

[Hugh Wiedman]

I have to disagree with you on the Spektrum batteries, i use them in my Viper 90, around 100 flights, never any issues whatsoever. They also charge nicely with the Spektrum smart charger. Must be one of the most stable lipo batteries ive had the past 20 years.

Just had to weigh in on this. First of all, the Viper will fly with a good/bad/in-different battery, so that's not a good "test" subject. You may love your Spektrum batteries (I guess someone has to), but I can guarantee you that they rank very poorly on the 3 most important issues. They are 1) way over priced, 2) the "actual" C (NOT THE ADVERTISED C) on the 5000 100C is actually 25C and on the 7000 30C is actually 16C and 3) heavier than comparable batteries. Most everyone in this forum knows I spent a lot of time and money testing 6S batteries (including doing some testing for MRC and the Admirals), and Spektrum is near the bottom of the list. You can also go to RCGroups and there is a complete testing of many batteries and see for yourself. Or, do what I did, Buy a Progressive IR meter (tests actual C, individual cell amps and individual cell resistance) and a Power meter and hook it up to your aircraft.

I can also guarantee you that if you get the Mig and fly it on 2 Spektrum 7000's, you will immediately say the "MIG IS A PIG"!! And it will be on those packs. Several of us fly our Migs on the SMC 5300 40C (Actual tested C of 39 and weight of 684 gr) or the SMC 6200 40 C (actual tested C of 38-39 and weight of 814 gr). Flies like a dream on the 5300's and even the 6200's. Unfortunately, SMC is in the process of redesigning all their packs because of the lithium shortage/price, but soon they'll be back in inventory. Liperiors were also good for actual C, but weighed a bit more. If you're not in the US, others like xviper (listen to him, he knows) have found the China Hobby batteries are good and lately the Codder HV sound great. But don't waste your money on the Mig if you plan on using Spektrum batteries.

Especially with EDF's, the inrunners THRIVE on a higher discharge rate packs, more so than the outrunners (but they still get a boost). With the Mig stock fans, the Spektrums will draw about 89 amps and 2061 watts. With a decent high C battery like SMC/ Liperior/China Hobby/ Codder HV more like 103 amps and 2420 watts and about 10-15% MORE THRUST than with the Spektrums. The 2 Migs at our field both have the FMS 2100 12 blade and static on the bench with the SMC's are at 125 amps 2895 watts, another 15-20% over the stock fans, but you don't need the FMS fans, the stock fans are great with the TV nozzles. We use the FMS fans because we're flying off grass and just can't leave well enough alone!

Don't take my word for it, get the testing meters and see for yourself and look up the studies people have already done. Don't throw the 10's of thousands of dollars away on crappy batteries like I have!! This will save you a ton of money. And if you still get the Mig and use Spektrums, keep my number and I'll buy it off you at a healthy discount when you decide it's "Not Worth The Money"! I may even spring for shipping!

[kallend]

Just had to weigh in on this. First of all, the Viper will fly with a good/bad/in-different battery, so that's not a good "test" subject. You may love your Spektrum batteries (I guess someone has to), but I can guarantee you that they rank very poorly on the 3 most important issues. They are 1) way over priced, 2) the "actual" C (NOT THE ADVERTISED C) on the 5000 100C is actually 25C
. . . . . .

:

There is no agreed upon engineering definition of "C" rating, and no independently established engineering standard or test procedure for measuring it. That is why marketing departments can put any number they like on the label with no fear of being sued for false advertizing. Data like in the RCG thread are good for comparitive purposes but shouldn't be called "actual".

You pays yer money and you takes yer chance.

[Hugh Wiedman]

There is no agreed upon engineering definition of "C" rating, and no independently established engineering standard or test procedure for measuring it. That is why marketing departments can put any number they like on the label with no fear of being sued for false advertizing. Data like in the RCG thread are good for comparitive purposes but shouldn't be called "actual".

You pays yer money and you takes yer chance.

Very true, but you can measure a batteries individual cell internal resistance and compare those againat other batteries to at least easily guesstimate which battery has a higher discharge rate. Ultimately, the final test rest in actual use and the Spektrums fail, at least for me, in both areas. But to each his own.

[gr8pics]

I agree with both of you above. I know the advertised rating is much less, but arent they all? The actuall experience is what counts.
Im not saying Spektrum is best, theyve just worked very well for me on all the planes i got.
Im a little surprised Admiral is one of them, cause i wanted to get some along with the Mig, but what other brands are good 6s ones? Ill rather pay a little extra for quality and safety, rather than cheaping out on cheap china packs, that are ticking bombs.

[HangarQueen]

Yes, they all perform less than advertised, but if you pay a premium price for an advertised 100C, you can expect a little more than only one quarter of that, no? In my book, that comes close to fraud.
I use HRB in my F22, "china packs", the cost a fraction of the Spektrum ones, are a LOT lighter, and perform way better. They deliver 107A to the EDF without breaking a sweat, and show a low internal resistance, even after more than 20 cycles so far.
Have a look at the RCG thread, those are all real-life honest test values. You'll find the Spektrum batteries if you scroll way down that list.

[gr8pics]

Question about the livery.
Are the digital camo stickers or paint?
if stickers, are all of it preinstalled?
Would like to change it to something different, if its preinstalled, i guess its hard to do?

[crxmanpat]

Question about the livery.
Are the digital camo stickers or paint?
if stickers, are all of it preinstalled?
Would like to change it to something different, if its preinstalled, i guess its hard to do?

They are water-slide decals, and they are preinstalled. However, since they are water-slide, they are very thin so they can be painted over and you won't tell they are there afterwards.

[gr8pics]

They are water-slide decals, and they are preinstalled. However, since they are water-slide, they are very thin so they can be painted over and you won't tell they are there afterwards.

Cool, have you seen anyone alter the scheme here?

[Hugh Wiedman]

Question about the livery.
Are the digital camo stickers or paint?
if stickers, are all of it preinstalled?
Would like to change it to something different, if its preinstalled, i guess its hard to do?

The lion is not on the vertical stabs, but the rest are pre-applied. There are some great liveries out there that many have done so it's no big deal to change. Filter this thread by photos or go to the last 2 March Madness forums. Changed mine very easily.

Regarding decent 6S packs, for cost/weight/discharge rate the SMC, IMO are tops in the US, but currently unavailable due to several factors but Danny is come out soon with another full line including some HV packs that I'm drooling to get. Also hate to burst your bubble, but if I'm not mistaken, all the packs are made in China! For reference, the SMC packs individual cell Internal Resistance averages 1.33 mohms (both 6200 & 5300) and individual cell amps at 175. HRB 6000 is a decent alternative, IR's 1.97 & 141 amps, Admirals/Spektrums 2.96 & 110 amps (both work horses but not great on discharge rate or battery weight), and Roaring Tops 2.34 and 125 amps (but they do not hold up well). Liperior's are close to the SMC's but weigh about 15-20% more, but still a good alternative. Until the SMC's are back, the HRB's are a decent, cheaper alternative and the Liperiors are a bit better, but heavier. Just my 2 cents.

My personal favorite:

[gr8pics]

The lion is not on the vertical stabs, but the rest are pre-applied. There are some great liveries out there that many have done so it's no big deal to change. Filter this thread by photos or go to the last 2 March Madness forums. Changed mine very easily.

Regarding decent 6S packs, for cost/weight/discharge rate the SMC, IMO are tops in the US, but currently unavailable due to several factors but Danny is come out soon with another full line including some HV packs that I'm drooling to get. Also hate to burst your bubble, but if I'm not mistaken, all the packs are made in China! For reference, the SMC packs individual cell Internal Resistance averages 1.33 mohms (both 6200 & 5300) and individual cell amps at 175. HRB 6000 is a decent alternative, IR's 1.97 & 141 amps, Admirals/Spektrums 2.96 & 110 amps (both work horses but not great on discharge rate or battery weight), and Roaring Tops 2.34 and 125 amps (but they do not hold up well). Liperior's are close to the SMC's but weigh about 15-20% more, but still a good alternative. Until the SMC's are back, the HRB's are a decent, cheaper alternative and the Liperiors are a bit better, but heavier. Just my 2 cents.

My personal favorite:

Nice work mate!

Yea, i know they are all made in China, but the difference lays in which company managing the quality. Western companies manufacturing in China have stricker rrequirements for quality and QC, independent chinese manufacturers who sells directly, not so much. Just like iPhone vs a cheap model youll find on Aliexpress :)

[Evan D]

I had a link earlier to the 6000's I initially used in my Mig. I then started, and kept flying on lighter/ smaller batteries. I still get great flight time and I like the lighter feel of the plane. I'm using 5200 Power Hobby 50C, link below. I really like the value and performance of these. I've said it many times. Read reviews, do your home work before buying a battery. Buy one or two and test it out. If it performs as you want them buy a bunch because manufacturers change their batteries often and you may not get the same battery the next time. A great example is the E Speed battery I found, a 6200 50C. I bought one and loved it's weight, 760g. A couple months ordered more and they had the same exact label but were now much larger and 830g.

But you ask if you can use the Spek batteries you have. Sure you can (again you may have to move them around or carve a bit from under the canopy to balance with them) but yes.

[kallend]

Yes, they all perform less than advertised, but if you pay a premium price for an advertised 100C, you can expect a little more than only one quarter of that, no? In my book, that comes close to fraud.. . . .

If there were a published standard for measuring "C", say from ASTM, ISO or NIST, then you could prove fraud or false advertising. Since there is no such standard, each manufacturer/distributor can claim that their "100C" pack met their own standards, and you can't prove otherwise even if the pack is rubbish.

[HangarQueen]

If there were a published standard for measuring "C", say from ASTM, ISO or NIST, then you could prove fraud or false advertising. Since there is no such standard, each manufacturer/distributor can claim that their "100C" pack met their own standards, and you can't prove otherwise even if the pack is rubbish.

I'm not talking about the legal definition of fraud; I'm talking about the ethical definition of it. Often a very big difference.

[kallend]

I'm not talking about the legal definition of fraud; I'm talking about the ethical definition of it. Often a very big difference.

Whose code of ethics are you going to use? Yours? Evan's? Mine? Trump's?

[HangarQueen]

Whose code of ethics are you going to use? Yours? Evan's? Mine? Trump's?

Who cares? I'm just stating that in my book that is fraud, so where is the problem here? What is there to argue about? I find it fraud. Period. It's dishonest. Period. It's my opinion.
I guess we could start a multi-page discussion about the legal implications, the philosophical aspects of being dishonest, might be fun, but I just have this opinion.
So, to answer your question: Mine. That's the one that interests me most.

[Airguardian]

If you can handle or like the gracefulness of a pretty sluggish aeroplane (without thrust vectors) that needs two 6s batteries for about 3 minutes of motor time. With that nasty and costly habit of getting stuck in high alpha if you do some aerobatics.

You need a lot of batteries or the possibilty to charge at a high C-rate at the flying field.

You can fly the MiG for like 4-5min easily. 3min is akin to flying 80% of the flight full-throttle. Just need to learn some proper throttle management ;)
It also helps to keep the plane light and well balanced.
And high alpha locks are not a problem with the TV nozzles as demonstrated already ;)

Value is different for everyone. Is it worth the money? In my opinion yes. You get a very large and impressive aircraft for your $749 + $94.29. I would not buy this plane without the TVs. Not only does it help get you out of the alpha lock that has been mentioned but it makes it nimble, as nimble as a plane this big can be. Simply there is no other aircraft like it on the market today, to quote Nick Bolton on television.

But again, it is a big expensive airplane. It also needs two decent 5000-6000 size batteries, a receiver, and (in my opinion) needs to fly off pavement...

I get way more than 3 minutes on 5200's. But everyone is going to get flight time depending on their flying style (and quality of their batteries).

Totally second that line of thinking, but I'd add that I've got my best results with lightweight 600g 4Ah packs rather than heavy 5-6Ah lipos.
Not only you'll fly better thanks to a smaller wing loading but your T/W multiplies thanks to weight savings and you require less energy to keep aloft because a lighter plane is less draggy.

I definitely think this plane is worth the money, despite not liking many of the design choices that Freewing used in it. It still delivers something that is pretty much unique to the market at this point:

About batteries, do you know if it can take the Spektrum 6s 7000 packs?
I actually like to fly more scale just cruising around in slower movements, not flipping it around like a coin, but sometimes its nice to have the ability to rip it. with that kind flying, i should be able to get 5-6 mins on 6000, or?

Flipping around like a coin can be perfectly scale.

I really think we need to collectively get rid of that notion that scale flight equals flying just chill boring circles and 8-figures.
That's not SCALE, it's just chill. Nothing wrong with that, but aggressive flying can be perfectly scale, more so on a jet like this. ;)

I'd advise to keep clear of really heavy packs. Not just will that harm flight performance, it will place additional (and totally unnecessary) stress on the airframe and landing gear, worsening wear and tear and accelerating component failure. Plus, it gets to a point where the extra energy of bigger batts is negated by the extra energy it takes to thrust it around. Going lighter will yield better results for the most part, particularly long term. My 10 cents ;)

[Airguardian]

The lion is not on the vertical stabs, but the rest are pre-applied.

A tiger, technically ^^

[Evan D]

Absolutely. My reason to say use lighter batteries and (in my opinion) fly off pavement.

I'd advise to keep clear of really heavy packs. Not just will that harm flight performance, it will place additional (and totally unnecessary) stress on the airframe and landing gear, worsening wear and tear and accelerating component failure. Plus, it gets to a point where the extra energy of bigger batts is negated by the extra energy it takes to thrust it around. Going lighter will yield better results for the most part, particularly long term. My 10 cents ;)