Official Freewing JAS 39 Gripen 80mm EDF Jet

[killickb]

Very nicely done repaint Evan. Looks so clean and tidy; I trust that will also make her fly that much nicer ! Video of course ?

[Evan D]

Sorry, I don’t video... lucky to catch a cell shot. 8s makes it fly even better

[KevinMar]

So I guess I'm getting the FMS edf unit and getting ARFs from now on 🙃
Are there any concerns with using the stock Freewing ESC with this upgraded setup? If I were to start from scratch I'd surely get a beefier ESC, but are there any issues with just swapping out the EDF?

[Quickstop]

So I guess I'm getting the FMS edf unit and getting ARFs from now on 🙃
Are there any concerns with using the stock Freewing ESC with this upgraded setup? If I were to start from scratch I'd surely get a beefier ESC, but are there any issues with just swapping out the EDF?

They both use the same esc, fms esc is a re branded hobbywing which is what freewing uses. Both are 100 amps

[xviper]

So I guess I'm getting the FMS edf unit and getting ARFs from now on 🙃
Are there any concerns with using the stock Freewing ESC with this upgraded setup? If I were to start from scratch I'd surely get a beefier ESC, but are there any issues with just swapping out the EDF?

Have you flown it with the stock fan? Maybe you'll think it's OK. I thought you found that both fan units have the same thrust?
Both EDFs take 100A ESCs.

[KevinMar]

They both use the same esc, fms esc is a re branded hobbywing which is what freewing uses. Both are 100 amps

That's what I figured, rebranded HW, thanks for the confirmation!

xviper I have 3 flights on mine with the stock setup. It flies alright, but given it's a jet that should be able to execute fun maneuvers it is underpowered with 5000mah packs. Especially when the TV unit will be added, both the extra weight, and capability to perform maneuvers which require more thrust to get out of necessitate a better power unit.

[T-CAT]

That's what I figured, rebranded HW, thanks for the confirmation!

xviper I have 3 flights on mine with the stock setup. It flies alright, but given it's a jet that should be able to execute fun maneuvers it is underpowered with 5000mah packs. Especially when the TV unit will be added, both the extra weight, and capability to perform maneuvers which require more thrust to get out of necessitate a better power unit.

I see what you mean, but it sounds like you’re going for another 6 cell system that experiences a very similar current draw and it is unlikely a person would experience enough thrust gain to make the switch worthwhile. That’s just my take on it and some people may find the switch worthwhile.

[KevinMar]

T-CAT I understand what you’re saying, but I have too many 6s 5000’s to justify switching to an 8s setup. My goal isn’t to get the most power possible, but the best setup for 6s power is a reasonable goal

[T-CAT]

T-CAT I understand what you’re saying, but I have too many 6s 5000’s to justify switching to an 8s setup. My goal isn’t to get the most power possible, but the best setup for 6s power is a reasonable goal

The need for more batteries can definitely be a downside of going with a HV setup , as well as the need for a HV capable ESC and BEC. If you decide on HV setups down the road, for 8S for example, adding a 2S LIPo of the same capacity in series connection is a relatively cost effective way of achieving 8S. However, the pitfall of this Gripen is that not all 5000mah LiPo’s (chances are that many will use a lower capacity to achieve the proper CG) are going to fit or fit well.

[Mizer67]

Have you flown it with the stock fan? Maybe you'll think it's OK. I thought you found that both fan units have the same thrust?
Both EDFs take 100A ESCs.

Not sure which FMS unit we're talking about here, but the 2100kv has about ~400 - 450 grams more thrust than the Freewing 9 bld. in my case (2400 grams). That's almost 1 pound and it does make a noticeable difference in other planes.

I still think the Gripen is too heavy for 6S power though, even with the FMS fan. It needs an ~850 gram (worth of batteries) mid-range 8S setup to perform like it should.

[xviper]

Not sure which FMS unit we're talking about here, but the 2100kv has about ~400 - 450 grams more thrust than the Freewing 9 bld. in my case (2400 grams). That's almost 1 pound and it does make a noticeable difference in other planes.

I still think the Gripen is too heavy for 6S power though, even with the FMS fan. It needs an ~850 gram (worth of batteries) mid-range 8S setup to perform like it should.

Yes, I know that. My response was directed at KevinMar. When I first said that I was going to use the FMS unit, he posted up that his research showed that both the FMS unit and the FW unit put out the same thrust and he seemed to imply he didn't think it was worth while and wanted something that had more. He never replied to that post, so I just assumed that he didn't believe that my research showed the FMS unit had more thrust. I was then surprised that he went the FMS route anyway.

[kallend]

Yes, I know that. My response was directed at KevinMar. When I first said that I was going to use the FMS unit, he posted up that his research showed that both the FMS unit and the FW unit put out the same thrust and he seemed to imply he didn't think it was worth while and wanted something that had more. He never replied to that post, so I just assumed that he didn't believe that my research showed the FMS unit had more thrust. I was then surprised that he went the FMS route anyway.

My measurements agree with yours. About 0.4kg (16%) more thrust from the FMS for much the same current draw.

(Comparing the 70mm units, I found the FW 2210 has much the same thrust as the FMS PRO, but about 15% greater current draw.)

[Captain Moron]

Reading all these comments about the power system of the Gripen or lack of power. I am waiting for the European warehouse to restock the Gripen but after these comments I not so sure now. So what the general opionon on the Gripen, is it worth getting the Gripen when it comes back in stock or is it best left and wait untill Freewing bring out there next jet? 😕

[Airguardian]

It is worth it but get the ARF and install your own power system.

[Mizer67]

Reading all these comments about the power system of the Gripen or lack of power. I am waiting for the European warehouse to restock the Gripen but after these comments I not so sure now. So what the general opionon on the Gripen, is it worth getting the Gripen when it comes back in stock or is it best left and wait untill Freewing bring out there next jet? 😕

Well, to be completely transparent, I think most all of the stock Freewing 80mms don't have enough power.

The early models like the F-5 and Mirage are fine on the stock power they have now. More is almost always better, but those two weigh ~2200 grams AUW ready-to-fly w/a 4000 mah battery, give or take and have a fan that puts out 2400 grams at peak. Settled maybe ~2000 - 2200 grams of thrust static, but will depend on battery voltage and how quickly it sags. But for a 2200 gram plane, 2200 grams of thrust + whatever efflux speed the 6S fan is putting out gives good performance. T/W in flight assuming ~2100 avg thrust is ~0.95.

The 2016 - 2019 releases upped the size quite a bit (1/9th scale primarily) vs. those two and with it the weight. Most of the planes in that era now weigh ~2800 - 2900 grams depending on battery choices, with the same 2400 grams of thrust. I find this generation needs the FMS fan to accelerate and power out of and through maneuvers like the older generation. T/W in flight is ~0.74

This newest 2020 era plane is now ~3100 - 3200 grams. Quite a bit heavier than the others but with the same power system. T/W in flight is ~0.67. I don't think that type of T/W will ever give "jet like" performance. It's fine for flying around in circles but even basic aerobatics you're relying on momentum. Now, the 1920kv fan gives a decent top speed so you have good momentum if you've got a lot of stored energy (speed), but you don't have the thrust to power through anything if you don't.

Depending on how you fly you may or may not notice this a lot. Guys doing more slow and post stall stuff where acceleration is important will care more. I find even at the top of a loop it starts to track less clean as it loses momentum.

[Airguardian]

I subscribe everything that Mizer67 said.

The high performance PnP F-18 Hornet is about the ONLY Freewing jet I have owned that felt like it had a decent stock power. The rest have been lackluster to put it mildly. No exceptions. I still consider Freewing to be the top-tier EDF jet manufacturer despite this.

[Evan D]

Your post is spot on but the new inrunner the T-33 and newer planes have is pretty darn good. If you put that into the Avanti, A-4, Mig 21, L-39, F-86, A-6, etc they would be fairly well powered. The Gripen is the first I would say is marginal on the new inrunner due to it's weight and size. It is a big plane.

Well, to be completely transparent, I think most all of the stock Freewing 80mms don't have enough power.

The early models like the F-5 and Mirage are fine on the stock power they have now. More is almost always better, but those two weigh ~2200 grams AUW ready-to-fly w/a 4000 mah battery, give or take and have a fan that puts out 2400 grams at peak. Settled maybe ~2000 - 2200 grams of thrust static, but will depend on battery voltage and how quickly it sags. But for a 2200 gram plane, 2200 grams of thrust + whatever efflux speed the 6S fan is putting out gives good performance. T/W in flight assuming ~2100 avg thrust is ~0.95.

The 2016 - 2019 releases upped the size quite a bit (1/9th scale primarily) vs. those two and with it the weight. Most of the planes in that era now weigh ~2800 - 2900 grams depending on battery choices, with the same 2400 grams of thrust. I find this generation needs the FMS fan to accelerate and power out of and through maneuvers like the older generation. T/W in flight is ~0.74

This newest 2020 era plane is now ~3100 - 3200 grams. Quite a bit heavier than the others but with the same power system. T/W in flight is ~0.67. I don't think that type of T/W will ever give "jet like" performance. It's fine for flying around in circles but even basic aerobatics you're relying on momentum. Now, the 1920kv fan gives a decent top speed so you have good momentum if you've got a lot of stored energy (speed), but you don't have the thrust to power through anything if you don't.

Depending on how you fly you may or may not notice this a lot. Guys doing more slow and post stall stuff where acceleration is important will care more. I find even at the top of a loop it starts to track less clean as it loses momentum.

[kallend]

It is worth it but get the ARF and install your own power system.

Much as it pains me to write this, I agree with Jandro.😁

[Airguardian]

10 points to Gryffindor!

[kallend]

I subscribe everything that Mizer67 said.

The high performance PnP F-18 Hornet is about the ONLY Freewing jet I have owned that felt like it had a decent stock power. The rest have been lackluster to put it mildly. No exceptions. I still consider Freewing to be the top-tier EDF jet manufacturer despite this.

I thought the Mirage2000 was fine (but I did upgrade it anyway).

I'm not so sure that the recent offerings are underpowered, I think they are simply overweight. The 70mm F-35V3 is heavier than my 80mm Mirage, and the Gripen is very nearly as heavy (within 0.1kg) as my 90mm Hawker Hunter.