Official Freewing Twin 80mm/90mm A-10 Thunderbolt II Thread

[Porkster]

To confirm about balance, my packs are pushed all the way back, the rear pack is against the servo leads and the front pack is flush against the rear one. That's with 5000 to 6200 batteries ranging from approx 750g to 850g each.
I don't think I'm nose heavy when tested and it will flare. My back up battery is behind the rear pack velcro'd to the top of the fuse, if anything with my lighter 5000 packs in the same place makes the plane feels more 'mushy' in the turns and won't roll as axially as the heavier packs. For me it feels a little tail heavy with the smaller, lighter batteries.

[Shirty]

If you look at the test Videos, you will see a different nose gear being used.

Yeah I know about the swap, just figured they would have tested any changes.

[Sky Wolf]

I am genuinely glad that this plane is working for you. Please watch my video and tell me what you think, I'm being honest.I came in nice and slow at a decent angle of attack with the nose high as you said and watch the plane pogo down the runway, see how the suspension just builds up momentum making what should have been a small little hop into plane wrecking high bounces.
This suspension set up just doesn't work for me and the reversed struts which TiredIronGRB suggested work.
also please take into consideration that I'm not flying off a full size runway like the video above, I have 200ft to land in or face another bent strut as it runs off in the tall grass.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUR5mZAvlK0

go to 4:12 to see the landing.

I haven’t personally experienced the dreaded bunny hop yet (fingers crossed and the others on the sticks), but from what I’ve seen from all the bouncy videos, it seems that the nose gear is part of the cause as well. I’ve seen it mentioned a few times, and I fully agree, that a more controlled flare is “key”.

Two things are what I see.

1) just like in this video, the nose gear is involved in the initial touch down, (3 point landing) rather than the mains first with a controlled flare. If you look closely, the nose gear really engages and starts the bounce, and continues to engage once it hits again and again.

I wonder if TI’s solution somehow reverses the inertia that’s created from the bounce, and if so, then that’s awesome.

2) the other thing I’ve seen, is the pilot letting go of the power too soon on the flare when touching down on the mains, causing the nose to drop too fast, (rather than a slower nose drop) and again engaging that nose gear too much.

The nose gear is doing it’s job, and maybe too well in these cases.

I hope it it never happens to me, but I’m definitely practicing and continuing to control that flare, letting that nose rest gently, while holding elevator and cascaded/paused use of throttle. So far, so good!

Not wanting to negate other’s experiences or skill set. Just offering another view.

On another note, have you guys seen what Captain Mike can do with the A-10? He gave a demo at the Warbirds over Grapevine event this past weekend.

OMG! It’s a must see...and Hear!!!

This jet is a beast!

[Porkster]

I haven’t personally experienced the dreaded bunny hop yet (fingers crossed and the others on the sticks), but from what I’ve seen from all the bouncy videos, it seems that the nose gear is part of the cause as well. I’ve seen it mentioned a few times, and I fully agree, that a more controlled flare is “key”.

Two things are what I see.

1) just like in this video, the nose gear is involved in the initial touch down, (3 point landing) rather than the mains first with a controlled flare. If you look closely, the nose gear really engages and starts the bounce, and continues to engage once it hits again and again.

I wonder if TI’s solution somehow reverses the inertia that’s created from the bounce, and if so, then that’s awesome.

2) the other thing I’ve seen, is the pilot letting go of the power too soon on the flare when touching down on the mains, causing the nose to drop too fast, (rather than a slower nose drop) and again engaging that nose gear too much.

The nose gear is doing it’s job, and maybe too well in these cases.

I hope it it never happens to me, but I’m definitely practicing and continuing to control that flare, letting that nose rest gently, while holding elevator and cascaded/paused use of throttle. So far, so good!

Not wanting to negate other’s experiences or skill set. Just offering another view.

On another note, have you guys seen what Captain Mike can do with the A-10? He gave a demo at the Warbirds over Grapevine event this past weekend.

OMG! It’s a must see...and Hear!!!

This jet is a beast!

I’d disagree. I watched my video on slow motion and it’s definitely a mains touch down before the nose not a three pointer.
You could be right though in me powering off too soon after the initial touch?

[TiredIronGRB]

I've slowed the video down and zoomed in, looks like mains first then compressed into a three point...no matter which the stock, high sprung nose strut launches the nose into the air. Reversing the struts forces the nose down and keeps it down.

[zorkahn]

Clear Blue (Jim) and I had our A-10s out this weekend. We have both reversed our mains after both damaging the nose gear from the "Death Bounce". Jim now has 6 flights and I have 11 on the reversed main gear. Not one single hop on any of those landings, and some were not perfect. Of the seven flights we put in this weekend Jim had the one "perfect" landing. It is very difficult to get a perfect landing every time and the stock setup is not forgiving. Reversing the mains is the only way to go.

[dahawk]

Watch how Captain Mike flew my A-10. Didn't realize this plane was capable of some of these maneuvers. Wow !

[Sky Wolf]

I've slowed the video down and zoomed in, looks like mains first then compressed into a three point...no matter which the stock, high sprung nose strut launches the nose into the air. Reversing the struts forces the nose down and keeps it down.

Exactly the point I was making. Your mod must be doing something to take away the energy generated from that nose gear being engaged so much. In the video, the nose gear touches down awfully close to the same time as the mains. But even if a landing its not a 3-pointer, if that nose touches down too hard it will bounce it. But that mod seems to be helping in both cases. Again, I haven't bounced one yet, because I've been lucky so far in keeping that nose up long enough to softly put it down. Praying hard that it doesnt happen. :Whew:

[TiredIronGRB]

Praying hard that it doesnt happen. :Whew:

Why take a chance...your betting on landing perfectly 100% of the time.

[downwindleg]

Thanks to T.I.for the slowed down zoomed in documentation of Porkster's dreaded bounce which has happened to many of us. I suggest that the T.I. version of the video be sent directly to Alpha in the hope that he speeds up the eta on the strut upgrades. Meanwhile, the T.I. strut reversal seems to be working very well. Brad

[Porkster]

Thanks TI for doing the edited video, it does really look awful though!!, makes me cringe watching it back. That was a lucky one though, the plane survived with only minor scuffs to the vertical tails. A few flights later and a subsequent bounce really killed it resulting in the need for a new fuselage :(

[dahawk]

To confirm about balance, my packs are pushed all the way back, the rear pack is against the servo leads and the front pack is flush against the rear one. That's with 5000 to 6200 batteries ranging from approx 750g to 850g each.
I don't think I'm nose heavy when tested and it will flare. My back up battery is behind the rear pack velcro'd to the top of the fuse, if anything with my lighter 5000 packs in the same place makes the plane feels more 'mushy' in the turns and won't roll as axially as the heavier packs. For me it feels a little tail heavy with the smaller, lighter batteries.

I also have my RT 6250 pushed back like Sean's picture. When Pilot Ryan and Captain Mike saw this, they were a little concerned about using heavier packs like these 6250's versus 5000 packs. Works pretty good IMO and you get 5 minutes. But I understand the concern.

[Aros]

Ah the ol' Bucking Bronco landings...Sadly, I know it well. I've been flying off of grass lately and it clearly (stock) is meant for grass landings. Of course, it can land on pavement just fine but you reeeeeally need to grease her in. Bleed off as much airspeed as possible with a nice flare inches above the ground and then she lands perfectly. Problem is the vast majority of us don't have perfect landings every time.

[weedsnager]

Any pictures of the mod you guys are talking about ?
and what Cg are you guys at with the batteries pushed back ?

[TiredIronGRB]

Any pictures of the mod you guys are talking about ?
and what Cg are you guys at with the batteries pushed back ?

[Shirty]

Watch how Captain Mike flew my A-10. Didn't realize this plane was capable of some of these maneuvers. Wow !

Great video, enjoyed that. Nice stuff boys :)

[Clearblue]

To Alpha, Aros and anyone else at Motion who would like to chime in! What's with the complete silence about the replacement struts for this Bird? I don't live on here and quite possibly have missed it? But there are several thousand of these birds in the hands of your customers now. And a lot of us have had to continually deal with the gear issue on this amazing flying plane. The speed in which the nose gear parts and complete units sell out? It's obvious it's not just a few less than perfect landings. This forum was visited quite frequently by Alpha and Aros prior to delivery. Now IMHO they are MIA! Now in this continued discussion about this gear, and the "Fix" that T.I. has shared with all of uf is great! And I've since completed it and Proved to myself, it's a way to continue to fly without fear of destroying the airframe. I understand that there have been " New Models" that have became available, and I'm sure new products yet to be unveiled eats up a great deal of time. I get that, But Some time back there was mention of a possible replacement gear like Tony's prototype A 10 had! Can any of you shed some light on, Or confirm that these will be, Or will not be made available please. While the T.I. "Fix" has worked, I would like to move my CG back just a little more. But with the reversed mains? That isn't possible. The plane tilts back onto the rudder stabilizers, because the gear geometry has changed. Now the Plane is NOT tail heavy, And flies quite well. But I feel still just a touch nose heavy, as several folks here have discussed the CG needs to be moved back some. Those that haven't reversed the mains can and have push their CG back. Just would like to hear from someone if these are, Or are not coming? Thanks. Jim

[weedsnager]

You guys that are having problems with the gear, are you flying strictly on grass ? Or are the pavement people having problems also ? I've been on the fence about buying this bird and spending $600 on a foam plane

[OV10]

You guys that are having problems with the gear, are you flying strictly on grass ? Or are the pavement people having problems also ? I've been on the fence about buying this bird and spending $600 on a foam plane

Unsure as to the message you're trying to convey Weedsnager. If it was a balsa bird would the expenditure of that $600 be more justified or palatable and if so why?

[T-CAT]

For comparison purposes, I can provide stats of my A-10’s and experience with the airframe.

- All flights performed from pavement.
- 25 flights total between two A-10’s (one 80mm modified and one 90mm modified).
- Both use a CG of 84mm (measured with gear extended and plane inverted).
- Both have a stacked battery placement on the wooden battery tray (my LiPo’s are roughly 900g each).
- Both jets have a flying weight of roughly 1.5 pounds heavier than a PNP Freewing A-10 using Admiral 6S 5000mah LiPo’s.
- Both use full flap deployment on landing using the manuals throws.
- Both use medium elevator throw (right in between the manuals high and low elevator throws).
- No use of flap to elevator mix.
- Landing gear are unmodified.

Thankfully, landings have been successful. I’m looking forward to getting more flights on the airframe, as 25 flights isn’t quite a lot. When it takes two batteries per flight, it has a way of naturally limiting total flights per trip to the field, ha-ha. LOL