Official Black Horse 2350mm Gilmore Red Lion

[406PIlot]

DaleD Engine seems to be running good so far. I'll have to get back to you about the final weight I just don't have that number yet.

As far as flight behavior. It's hard for me to give a good characterization at this point. Only having the maiden flight to go off from which was a whole bag of nerves and trimming etc.... I would say it takes almost no power to pull it around in the air. The plane wants to fly. It's dossal. Don't expect any big hard snaps or anything of that nature. It handles well, but reacts slowly. It seems to be pretty predicable in it's response to input. That is about the best I can do only having 1 flight. When I get a few more flights and get my rates and everything really dialed into my preferences then I'll be better able to give a report how it's handling and general flight feeling are from my perspective.

One thing I can say for sure. I am setup nose heavy for my CG at 112mm and it was perfect! Thanks to everyone on the forums that figured that out. Book CG of 118mm would of been way to tail heavy.

Will say I'm super happy with this plane. No major issues on assembly or problems with parts etc. I think the FG-90r3 is a fantastic engine for this plane and would recommend it to anyone looking at a gas setup. AND THAT SOUND!!!!!!!!!

[DaleD]

Well got out this afternoon for the maiden..... All went mostly well. Let's start by saying the manual high rate / control throws felt really sluggish. This could be just the airframe and how it's meant to fly, but to me aileron rolls, & elevator both felt really weak & sluggish with the book high rates. The book high rates were set as my "mid" rate. book low rates as my low rate & an increased high rate of about 30% as my high rates. The rudder felt right at home with the book high rate. No more or no less needed on the rudder, but the elevator & ailerons leaved something to be desired from the book rates. Short of the rates being a little light for my liking the maiden went great other wise. Having a new fg-90 to worry about being my first multi cylinder engine and this Gilmore being my biggest build since i started this hobby once past those nerves the maiden went just spectacular. Even with gobs of power from that fg-90 the Gilmore is a very scale flyer. Running at max 10% expo on my high rates the plane still felt very slow and predictable with any movement. My maiden flight went about 4min in total. Once i got it trimmed out I did just 2 or 3 laps then made 1-2 test approaches and set in for landing.

Here are some clips that a club member was nice enough to get with his cell phone and share with me.

https://youtu.be/PdeBkOpzeo8

https://youtu.be/QaTt_NMfKDA

https://youtu.be/ErJKD6tBvng

https://youtu.be/DpXHop6qZOE

Engines sounds bang on perfect and looks up to the task of getting her around.

What is your final weight and what would you say about the behaviour in flight?

Thanks

DaleD

[Twowingtj]

406PIlot Congrats and well done! That radial sounds great!

[406PIlot]

Well got out this afternoon for the maiden..... All went mostly well. Let's start by saying the manual high rate / control throws felt really sluggish. This could be just the airframe and how it's meant to fly, but to me aileron rolls, & elevator both felt really weak & sluggish with the book high rates. The book high rates were set as my "mid" rate. book low rates as my low rate & an increased high rate of about 30% as my high rates. The rudder felt right at home with the book high rate. No more or no less needed on the rudder, but the elevator & ailerons leaved something to be desired from the book rates. Short of the rates being a little light for my liking the maiden went great other wise. Having a new fg-90 to worry about being my first multi cylinder engine and this Gilmore being my biggest build since i started this hobby once past those nerves the maiden went just spectacular. Even with gobs of power from that fg-90 the Gilmore is a very scale flyer. Running at max 10% expo on my high rates the plane still felt very slow and predictable with any movement. My maiden flight went about 4min in total. Once i got it trimmed out I did just 2 or 3 laps then made 1-2 test approaches and set in for landing.

Here are some clips that a club member was nice enough to get with his cell phone and share with me.

https://youtu.be/PdeBkOpzeo8

https://youtu.be/QaTt_NMfKDA

https://youtu.be/ErJKD6tBvng

https://youtu.be/DpXHop6qZOE

[406PIlot]

What are you folks doing about a wing bag? Any off-the-shelf products out there that will be a good size for these wings?

I was looking into doing a custom.bag from revoc. But if there is something out there that is good or people are recommending I'd be interested as well.

[RCBobP]

What are you folks doing about a wing bag? Any off-the-shelf products out there that will be a good size for these wings?

[SanExup]

That's phenomenal!

[Twowingtj]

The owner drew up his own plans and scratch built it. It's an impressive 40% scale.

[SanExup]

I bet! Is it a kit? I'm purely an electric guy but a beauty like that I'd maybe change my way.

[Twowingtj]

SanExup It sounds even better than it looks.

[SanExup]

Twowingtj That Stearman!

[Twowingtj]

There are builders of both the Black Horse Zero and Black Horse FW-190 that have installed 4-stroke radials inside the cowls. None have baffling.

The Gilmore has even more space inside the cowl and very good air outflow. Four cycle engines tend to run cooler as they fire half as often as well.

One way to test might be to run it open and take temp readings. Then run with the cowl installed and take readings again as the engine is still pretty accessible.

[djmoose]

Twowingtj Fair point!

406PIlot My POV is what I've heard from Desert Aircraft on their engines. I have no experience with 4 stroke or radials.

[Twowingtj]

406PIlot Their are several world class scale pilots that have been flying 3, 5, and 7 cylinder radials, up to 500cc, in open air without any issues.

[406PIlot]

djmoose So i have been doing my break-in without a cowl. I am now through 2 complete tanks of fuel with break-in settings (super rich). I've started my 3rd tank of fuel and have adjusted the carb to more of a normal running setting up but still on the "rich" side. With the normal / rich running settings my cylinder head temps have been between 160-185/190 ish. Do you think these temps will change drastically during flight with the cowl on? Up to this point I've run my gas planes with no cowl for the first flight or two to make carb adjustments from rich to a more normal running setup. But this is my first multi cylinder 4 stroke so I am looking for any / all advise!

[djmoose]

I was going to suggest you use 3 pieces of craft foam and throw in some thin CF rods to support it. However, you could try to use the fake motor, see if you can orient it so you can just cut out spots for your 3 cylinders...paint the fake cylinders to match. <thinking out loud>

djmoose thanks for the info. I do a decent job of checking engine temps before and after flights on my other planes. But I think like you do if its only a little time and effort why not doing to protect the investment!!!

[406PIlot]

djmoose thanks for the info. I do a decent job of checking engine temps before and after flights on my other planes. But I think like you do if its only a little time and effort why not doing to protect the investment!!!

[djmoose]

Every RC pilot that I respect, when say flying a Yak or other round cowl plane with something big like a a DA120-150-170-200, always recommend baffles. This is in regards to my years with 3D Hobby Shop/Extreme Flight and flying IMAC pretty seriously for several years. I even baffled my DA170 in an Extra. It wasn't much more work to help avoid an overheating problem when I invest a whole weekend at a contest.

I believe that most of this thinking is to help with an investment in a very expensive model (and engine). Why assume you're getting proper airflow over the heads when you can absolutely make sure you are? I have also known respected pilots who measure temps before and after and noticed a huge increase in cooling when baffling.

Here's the thing, with a big open cowl...unless you a fluid dynamics expert, it's really tough to understand where the air is going to flow. You would think if everything is out in the open, you're going to get airflow. That's not always the case. You can absolutely have stagnant air just around the heads during flight which means no cooling. The guys at DA recommend to absolutely never fly without a cowl.

My suggestion...baffle. IF you don't baffle, please pay attention to your engine and see if you need to down the road. The ONLY bad thing that can come from baffling is the time it takes to do it.

Just my 2 cents.

I wanted to ask and see what people think of needing or using baffles in the cowl. Since the cowl is so big and the engine has a lot of open space around it does anyone think that baffles will be needed to make sure the air is directed over the cylinder cooling fins? I've seen on different searches some people mention they are a must if you have a big open cowl and i've seen others say they aren't required.

I've found most of the best information comes from the people on this forum. I'm curious to see what your thoughts are on this.

Thanks.

[406PIlot]

I wanted to ask and see what people think of needing or using baffles in the cowl. Since the cowl is so big and the engine has a lot of open space around it does anyone think that baffles will be needed to make sure the air is directed over the cylinder cooling fins? I've seen on different searches some people mention they are a must if you have a big open cowl and i've seen others say they aren't required.

I've found most of the best information comes from the people on this forum. I'm curious to see what your thoughts are on this.

Thanks.

[Twowingtj]

406PIlot It's really coming along nicely. Good luck with the upcoming maiden!