Official FMS 1500mm P-47D Razorback Thread

[davegee]

Not really sure how to calculate the MSL but as far as I know it's 9m or 29.5ft..

So you are near sea level, e.g., the ocean, etc.? Is that correct? If so, I'll have to be careful with flying with the scale prop as I've found a lot of performance issues between some place like, say, San Diego, near sea level, and where I live in Wyoming that is 5,000 feet elevation (MSL), that being the air is a lot thinner and performance is definitely less.

For instance with big planes, too, a 747-400 of the type I used to fly could go nonstop with a full payload of passengers/freight from the West Coast to China, no problem, but if you say wanted to go from Denver (5,300 feet MSL) to China, you couldn't do it and carry any kind of payload (passengers and/or freight). You'd have to land on the coast first, then fuel up at sea level, and then go. There were extreme weight penalties the higher in elevation (MSL) that you went. On a much smaller scale of course, I have found rc flying performance where I fly (between 5000-6000 feet MSL) markedly decreased with some rc airplanes and jets.

The whole point being, I'll just have to be extra careful flying the plane with the big prop, getting the most out of its performance in a degraded density of air from where you fly. I think it should still work out ok, hopefully.

Thanks for the info, it is helpful.

Cheers

davegee

[spanner76]

Actually about an hour inland but at or close to sea level I assume..

[davegee]

Actually about an hour inland but at or close to sea level I assume..

Thanks. I'll keep in mind the performance you had near sea level and compare it to when I can fly my plane up here at 5000 feet. Hopefully there won't be much difference in the performance.

I have all the parts that I need now except for the propeller blades, whch should arrive in a few days. I can then assemble the parts on my P-47 to use it as a test bed with the big prop. Will report how it goes.

Cheers

davegee

[spanner76]

Definitely looking forward to hearing how it goes for you!

[davegee]

Definitely looking forward to hearing how it goes for you!

Well, I got all the new parts for the 1700mm Corsair prop in the mail in the past few days, and added it onto the FMS 1.5 M P-47D razorback, per the inspiration from Spanner 76 who has successfully done this already.

I used as my testbed my earlier P-47D painted in the colors of a plane named I Wanted Wings/Button Nose, by its pilot who flew with the 56th Fighter Group out of England in WWII.

I had some concerns how well this would fly at 5,000' MSL versus where Spanner 76 did his tests at a field at near sea level. But today that was not a factor at all. I did several full power static runups this morning at my house, and again before I took it up for a flight. It was rock solid all the way. When I took off I didn't use enough right rudder and the plane veered off a bit to the left of the runway, but safe takeoff, nonetheless. Did several circuits at high speed and others at a midrange speed, using about 1/2 throttle. Did a couple of rolls, very realistic looking as the real airplane looks in the air.

Coming in for landing, I did my usual WWII break and pitchout from a low altitude over the runway. Once on a downwind, I dropped the gear and flaps and brought it in for a smooth two-point, tail low landing, using some power. It rolled out nicely but near the end of the rollout I think the steering pin broke on the tail wheel and it did a quick groundloop. That pin is just molded plastic on that part and I'll replace the pin with brass rod tonight.

This plane has done great for me and I've had it about two years now and a lot of flights. Although not a perfect match, the larger prop from the 1700mm Corsair is a nice scale addition that actually works!

I'll attach some pics from this afternoon, including one from a while back with the stock prop on it that you can get a comparison of the two. I'm now working on repainting the big prop and having Callie add some scale nomenclature transfers to complete the project.

Cheers

davegee

[spanner76]

Well, I got all the new parts for the 1700mm Corsair prop in the mail in the past few days, and added it onto the FMS 1.5 M P-47D razorback, per the inspiration from Spanner 76 who has successfully done this already.

I used as my testbed my earlier P-47D painted in the colors of a plane named I Wanted Wings/Button Nose, by its pilot who flew with the 56th Fighter Group out of England in WWII.

I had some concerns how well this would fly at 5,000' MSL versus where Spanner 76 did his tests at a field at near sea level. But today that was not a factor at all. I did several full power static runups this morning at my house, and again before I took it up for a flight. It was rock solid all the way. When I took off I didn't use enough right rudder and the plane veered off a bit to the left of the runway, but safe takeoff, nonetheless. Did several circuits at high speed and others at a midrange speed, using about 1/2 throttle. Did a couple of rolls, very realistic looking as the real airplane looks in the air.

Coming in for landing, I did my usual WWII break and pitchout from a sow altitude over the runway. Once on a downwind, I dropped the gear and flaps and brought it in for a smooth two-point, tail low landing, using some power. It rolled out nicely but near the end of the rollout I think the steering pin broke on the tail wheel and it did a quick groundloop. That pin is just molded plastic on that part and I'll replace the pin with brass rod tonight.

This plane has done great for me and I've had it about two years now and a lot of flights. Although not a perfect match, the larger prop from the 1700mm Corsair is a nice scale addition that actually works!

I'll attach some pics from this afternoon, including one from a while back with the stock prop on it that you can get a comparison of the two. I'm now working on repainting the big prop and having Callie add some scale nomenclature transfers to complete the project.

Cheers

davegee

Hey Dave,

Fantastic news to hear of your successful runs with the new prop! I also flew mine again over the weekend and it was a great outing! The only downside of the day was dropping the wings on the ground when packing up to leave and causing damage to the wing tips.. But I will be able to fix that up. I was a little more adventurous this time round and did many more full power runs and she flew great with no ESC load or motor overheating issues. I did a couple of full power circuits of the flying field and then landed and the power system temps felt great!

Mate I love the paint scheme on your Jug! She looks sensational!

[davegee]

Hey Dave,

Fantastic news to hear of your successful runs with the new prop! I also flew mine again over the weekend and it was a great outing! The only downside of the day was dropping the wings on the ground when packing up to leave and causing damage to the wing tips.. But I will be able to fix that up. I was a little more adventurous this time round and did many more full power runs and she flew great with no ESC load or motor overheating issues. I did a couple of full power circuits of the flying field and then landed and the power system temps felt great!

Mate I love the paint scheme on your Jug! She looks sensational!

Thanks, Spanner 76! You were the inspiration for me to go ahead with this project. I was aware of a few guys doing this prop conversion before, but it seemed to get complicated changing to more powerful ESCs and motors. I was relieved to read your initial test results that went well at your near sea level flying field. At least in the cool fall air, my plane being at 5,000' was not an issue today.

I'll attach a few pics of the Real "I Wanted Wings" which was flown by a Lt. Albert Knafelz of New York. He survived his combat tour and lived to an old age. His plane, however , flown by another pilot after Knafelz had rotated home, was damaged on a landing after a mission and was a writeoff. That pilot also survived.

Thanks for the kind words on the paint scheme. I researched this one pretty well and was already very familiar with how they painted some of their aircraft in the 56th Fighter Group in WWII.

Cheers

davegee

[spanner76]

Thanks, Spanner 76! You were the inspiration for me to go ahead with this project. I was aware of a few guys doing this prop conversion before, but it seemed to get complicated changing to more powerful ESCs and motors. I was relieved to read your initial test results that went well at your near sea level flying field. At least in the cool fall air, my plane being at 5,000' was not an issue today.

I'll attach a few pics of the Real "I Wanted Wings" which was flown by a Lt. Albert Knafelz of New York. He survived his combat tour and lived to an old age. His plane, however , flown by another pilot after Knafelz had rotated home, was damaged on a landing after a mission and was a writeoff. That pilot also survived.

Thanks for the kind words on the paint scheme. I researched this one pretty well and was already very familiar with how they painted some of their aircraft in the 56th Fighter Group in WWII.

Cheers

davegee

haha! well I am certainly glad to have been an inspiration to someone! and that it came with good results! 😋

You're running the stock ESC yeah? Is it a 70 or 80 amper? Mine is an 80.. Was considering swapping a 110 amp into it as I am upgrading another of my planes to 8S and will have a spare ESC..

Nice to know some of the history of the actual plane! A shame it was written off.. but even if it wasn't, I'm sure it would have ended up as scrap due to post war surplus as did many planes..

[davegee]

haha! well I am certainly glad to have been an inspiration to someone! and that it came with good results! 😋

You're running the stock ESC yeah? Is it a 70 or 80 amper? Mine is an 80.. Was considering swapping a 110 amp into it as I am upgrading another of my planes to 8S and will have a spare ESC..

Nice to know some of the history of the actual plane! A shame it was written off.. but even if it wasn't, I'm sure it would have ended up as scrap due to post war surplus as did many planes..

Yes, my ESC is 70A and operate with a 6S 5000 mAh battery, usually Admiral or a G2 Spektrum battery that I use interchangeably with most of my airplanes, which are 6S power. It didn't seem to lack for power, and the ESC and battery stayed nice and cool after the flight.

I have a passion for history, so most of my airplanes are repainted in a specific scheme that a real pilot flew. I like going off the standard list of the big aces in WWII, although I have done some of those, too. In a few cases I actually knew the pilot before he passed away and got to share that with them, which was fun and gratifying.

You're right, most of the planes that survived the war were scrapped, or flown back to the USA and scrapped there. Pity...

Appreciate any updates or issues good or bad that happen with your plane when you fly it. I'm repainting the prop now, so it will probably "stand down" for a few days while that is going on.

Cheers

davegee

[spanner76]

Yeah if anything comes up with my P-47 I will certainly let you know.

Have you done a load test on your plane with the new prop? Curious to know what your amp draw is.

Are you just painting the tips of the prop?

[davegee]

Yeah if anything comes up with my P-47 I will certainly let you know.

Have you done a load test on your plane with the new prop? Curious to know what your amp draw is.

Are you just painting the tips of the prop?

I haven't done a load test, not even sure how to do that, but I have a friend at the field where we could do that. Except for takeoffs, I am usually running about 50-60 percent power.

I just sanded and repainted the props black. The yellow tips were way too large, and once the black paint is dry, I'll use some masking tape to spray the tips yellow. Regarding markings, I sent an inquiry to Callie Graphics about making the nomenclature markings in white, versus the orangey color that comes with her P-47 nomenclature and decal packages. Instead of running lengthwise down the prop, I want them to go crosswise, as was the practice for many Ham Stan props back then. I'll attach a photo of a real one, a restoration and it is in yellow, but I want to go with white, if possible.

Cheers

davegee

[davegee]

I haven't done a load test, not even sure how to do that, but I have a friend at the field where we could do that. Except for takeoffs, I am usually running about 50-60 percent power.

I just sanded and repainted the props black. The yellow tips were way too large, and once the black paint is dry, I'll use some masking tape to spray the tips yellow. Regarding markings, I sent an inquiry to Callie Graphics about making the nomenclature markings in white, versus the orangey color that comes with her P-47 nomenclature and decal packages. Instead of running lengthwise down the prop, I want them to go crosswise, as was the practice for many Ham Stan props back then. I'll attach a photo of a real one, a restoration and it is in yellow, but I want to go with white, if possible.

Cheers

davegee

I got my second flight on my P-47D with the big prop this morning. Takeoff was much better using more right rudder, and it was really a great flight for about 5 minutes doing a few rolls and other maneuvers. I was totally satisfied with this performance of the airplane with the new prop.

Unfortunately, when I did my low altitude over the runway pitchout and then dropped the gear, on downwind leg I could tell that not all the gear had extended. Just the left gear, and I think also the tail wheel were down. Right gear was solidly retracted. So, I slowed the airplane down, did a number of recycling of the gear, but still no bringing that other gear down. So, I had to decide how to do an emergency landing.

I decided that considering the runway which is fairly rough but paved asphalt, and everything surrounding the runway which is gnarly sagebrush and filled with gopher holes, rocks, and other unsuitable terrain for landing, I opted to do a gearup landing on the runway, using full flaps. I was able to do that keeping it as slow as possible flying it onto the runway and then reducing power and making a fairly nose high landing attitude and let is slide to a halt in about 25 feet or so.

No damage to the wings tail or most other parts of the airplane, but some "road rash" on the bellypan where it touched down, which is easily repairable with some bondo and repainting.

The new props were mostly in ok shape, one of the four might be scrapped as its tip wore off a bit more than I feel comfortable trying to repair by sanding smooth. But the other three should buff out ok and repaint the tips.

As for the culprit, the gear retract unit. Once I removed it, the motor came on again when I used my servo tester, but no movement of the gear on the retract at all. I will take it apart to learn why it might have failed like that when it was in the wheelwell, but it was definitely a "hard" failure that could not have been fixed by recycling the gear several times like I did. I think this was original equipment to the plane, now well over two years old with lots of flights.

I had another new P-47 retract in my workshop and am working to install it in the plane and then worry about the mostly cosmetic issues with the belly scrapes. I think I got away with it pretty well, and was satisfied with my belly landing. Should be able to have it ready in a few days for more action.

davegee

[davegee]

As an update to my previous post above of flight with the new prop and hub assembly from the V3 FMS 1700mm Corsair adapted as a trial run to my 1.5M P-47D, I actually did get flight number 3 in this morning. I spent several hours yesterday making repairs after the gear up landing, and replacing the right main gear retract as well as doing several cosmetic repairs to the belly pan area where it skidded to a stop on the runway. Also, I was able to use all four propeller blades as the tips were not that seriously damaged and I was able to file and round off and repaint the damaged areas.

Today's test flight was as good as yesterday's, with the notable exception that the gear actually came down for landing this time! I still want to take the retract apart to see why it malfunctioned yesterday. But as for today's flight, it was done in almost absolutely perfect weather conditions with virtually no wind. I didn't have a gun to compare speeds from the stock prop to the larger Corsair prop, but it did SEEM to me to fly faster with more authority with the big prop on it. All the maneuvers I did, just basic military maneuvers that a real P-47 could do, went very well. Takeoff and landing was as expected. Landing was typical of flying one of these warbirds with a little power right to landing, touching down with the mains and then lowering the tail to the ground as speed bled off.

I think I'll keep this big prop on this plane for the time being, if not permanently. I might add one onto my other FMS P-47D that is in a straight OD/Neutral Grey camo pattern of earlier in the war. Very happy with the results and looks of this plane with the more scale looking prop on it. Even this one is slightly underscaled compared to the real thing, but definitely close enough for this application.

I'll attach a couple of pics of the plane after the test flight under beautiful Wyoming skies this morning. One of the pics shows the propeller straight on. I am detailing it a bit, have repainted it and the tips to a more scale look. and am waiting on an order from Callie to make some of the propeller nomenclature transfers that were used on this plane.

Cheers

davegee

[spanner76]

As an update to my previous post above of flight with the new prop and hub assembly from the V3 FMS 1700mm Corsair adapted as a trial run to my 1.5M P-47D, I actually did get flight number 3 in this morning. I spent several hours yesterday making repairs after the gear up landing, and replacing the right main gear retract as well as doing several cosmetic repairs to the belly pan area where it skidded to a stop on the runway. Also, I was able to use all four propeller blades as the tips were not that seriously damaged and I was able to file and round off and repaint the damaged areas.

Today's test flight was as good as yesterday's, with the notable exception that the gear actually came down for landing this time! I still want to take the retract apart to see why it malfunctioned yesterday. But as for today's flight, it was done in almost absolutely perfect weather conditions with virtually no wind. I didn't have a gun to compare speeds from the stock prop to the larger Corsair prop, but it did SEEM to me to fly faster with more authority with the big prop on it. All the maneuvers I did, just basic military maneuvers that a real P-47 could do, went very well. Takeoff and landing was as expected. Landing was typical of flying one of these warbirds with a little power right to landing, touching down with the mains and then lowering the tail to the ground as speed bled off.

I think I'll keep this big prop on this plane for the time being, if not permanently. I might add one onto my other FMS P-47D that is in a straight OD/Neutral Grey camo pattern of earlier in the war. Very happy with the results and looks of this plane with the more scale looking prop on it. Even this one is slightly underscaled compared to the real thing, but definitely close enough for this application.

I'll attach a couple of pics of the plane after the test flight under beautiful Wyoming skies this morning. One of the pics shows the propeller straight on. I am detailing it a bit, have repainted it and the tips to a more scale look. and am waiting on an order from Callie to make some of the propeller nomenclature transfers that were used on this plane.

Cheers

davegee

Those photos are just amazing!

Hey, what pilots mirror is that? Is it from the Flightline Spitfire?

[davegee]

Those photos are just amazing!

Hey, what pilots mirror is that? Is it from the Flightline Spitfire?

Thanks, Yes, that is exactly from a Flightline Spitfire. It is similar to pictures I have seen of this plane and other American fighters of the time. I think they got whatever they could find. Some had an automotive mirror(s) with a fairing attached in various spots of the fuselage, especially with the razorback that you can't see behind you!

[davegee]

Thanks, Yes, that is exactly from a Flightline Spitfire. It is similar to pictures I have seen of this plane and other American fighters of the time. I think they got whatever they could find. Some had an automotive mirror(s) with a fairing attached in various spots of the fuselage, especially with the razorback that you can't see behind you!

I'm starting to work on the big Corsair prop for my other FMS P-47. I'm having someone doing a 3D print of Curtiss Electric prop dome that will screw on. I've had success with this with a 3D part and the standard prop, but once I saw the difference that the Big, more scale prop makes, and how well it flies with it, I HAD to change this one over! Attached are a couple of pics of the other plane, Hairless Joe, with the standard prop on it. For those interested, this plane was flown by Maj. David Schilling of the 56th Fighter Group and scored 3.5 kills in this plane in 1943 before trading it in on a newer plane.

This Curtiss prop won't be perfect, but should be close enough for this project, for now.

davegee

[spanner76]

That's bloody awesome! 😍

[davegee]

That's bloody awesome! 😍

We'll see how it goes. I am fairly confident based on the testbed of the 3D printed prop dome on the standard prop that this bigger one will work ok on the Corsair prop.
Should have it done in a few weeks, hopefully, then do some test flights.

[davegee]

We'll see how it goes. I am fairly confident based on the testbed of the 3D printed prop dome on the standard prop that this bigger one will work ok on the Corsair prop.
Should have it done in a few weeks, hopefully, then do some test flights.

Did one more test flight on my I Wanted Wings camo P-47 today. Went very well with the new prop, so that is four consecutive successful flights on it during this test program. I am pressing ahead with the Curtiss Electric prop mod for my Hairless Joe airplane. Sent the prop hub parts to my friend for him to make a 3D printed bullet shaped Curtiss Electric prop dome. I'm hoping in the next 2-3 weeks I'll be ready for test flights using that prop set up. This prop (taken from 1700mm V3 Corsair kit) is much more scale size to the real airplane.

Attached are a couple pics of the I Wanted Wings camo plane after its 4th flight on this prop. I added scale markings on the prop from Callie, and it flies great!

[spanner76]

That looks absolutely amazing!! Great work my friend!
The Curtis Electric prop dome is a cool idea but I personally prefer the shorter stubbie dome.

I recently acquired a FMS 1700mm P-47D and swapped it's stock 17x10 prop with the 18x11 from the Razorback. The bigger Thunderbolt desperately needed the bigger prop and I will test fly it shortly.
So I have now (temporarily) fitted the Razorback with the smaller 17x10 prop to see how it flys. Even though it is an inch smaller in diameter it still looks reasonably scale and I don't mind how it looks but the performance improvement is quite noticeable! Clearly the stock motor is able to turn the smaller shallower prop much more easily but I will not keep the smaller prop on this plane as I have already ordered a new replacement 18x11 (Corsair V3) prop for the Razorback so I can keep the bigger prop on the Thunderbolt. I am perfectly happy with how it flys with the bigger prop.