Alternative motor windings and drive schemes

[Clugh]

So you see squawkers he does no come equipped with data so lets move on with the F3A motors. I have 2 of the 14 poles wound. After testing the 4 + 4 the Kv was a little high 1017 for the dual layer and 980 for the single layer 8 turn.so we wound a 4+5 traditional parallel wye. Im going to let you hear it. You pick up the electrical noise right away. As I understand people had problems with the 14 poles but what I wound is definitely more fill than the factory winds. they should be a little cleaner because they are originally delta machines. From here with a D3 inverter id want the single layer but i cant send them that in middle of season. Im going to prepare some single layers for f3A but I want slot wedges to to raise the winding factor and protect the rotor and pm from slot harmonics and ultrasonic vibration..

I have even thought about finding a way to deaden the stator. Like Dynamat my boys. That will help thwart the core ringing. anyone that knows a little about car stereo knows I am not making this up. I was heavy into through high school and college. Im MECP certified in 12 volts and have been for about what 38 year. I worked with people like Hugh Cobb (Factory Rockford Fosgate sponsored Competitor) from Reidsville NC and Jay Lovelace at Creative Acoustics in Raleigh NC. They both won the IASCA worlds several times..

Jay had 16 cerwin vega stroker 15"s in a chevy astro van. You can NOT sit in the car the SPL will not allow you to hardly breathe YOU def lose all your hearing in flash you're talking 171 db was the world record its prolly alot more now.

To deaden the vehicle he had about 6 inches of concrete poured across the floor of the van . The windshield was braced with an I beam and was about 6 inches thick of LEXAN.

[Clugh]

As an example The Chelyabinsk meteor produced a sound estimated at 180 dB and caused widespread damage and injuries. These natural cosmic events produce some of the loudest sounds generated on Earth

171 Db is very loud bruder.. i can take you to the vehicle that does it, its in Raleigh If Jay still has it and he is still with us. I talked to Jay about 3 years ago. maybe.

[Clugh]

To be real I think a true sinus inverter would need to be larger. These inverters we use are a class D DIGITAL device. For true sonic clarity sinus operation is critically preferred for itz sound/signal quality. Nothing would beat pure class A for signal quality In my opinion. It is more complicated to build and a lot of people trained in electronics today are not trained to deal with pure analog equipment. They are trained to deal with microprocessor based digital devices.

Analog would be like vacuum tube amplifiers and big back TV's etc. What young person you know is trained in 2025 to work on a big back TV.?

Basically the sinus inverter you are presented in hobby is still a MCU based digital device faking the sinus anyway. and it struggles at high speed or pole count unless you have a dedicated fast processing MCU and the complimentary hardware to fake it.

With six step it only process 6 step. With brushless DC motor Itz quite simple the truth table...

[Clugh]

Where is the hybrid data Dr Okon?

I see you are here looking for some.
In the attachment is my 10 pole conventional 5+5 parallel wye P600 F3A winding before the boron nitride "smearing"....

Du hast dem Bastler in Deutschland gesagt, dass Hybridwicklungen in Speedplane-Motoren nichts zu suchen haben, was überhaupt nicht stimmt. Wo sind die Daten, Ralph? Und was ist dann dein anhaltendes Interesse daran?

TTYL
Hubert

[Clugh]

Tja, da hast du es, Ralph. Sie haben deinen Hybrid-Thread einfach in Ruhe gelassen und diskutieren lieber über den kleinen Tenshock, weil er Daten enthält und sie tatsächlich darüber diskutieren können, was für ihre Anwendung geeignet ist und was nicht. Der Bastler braucht dafür Daten. Wenn du ihm Daten gibst, wird der Mystic ausgelöscht. Wie der LMT41 und der Knocker fällt er zu Boden. Du erwartest, dass ich dir etwas zeige? Ich sehe, du warst hier um 7:21 EST in den USA. 👀

Danke,
Hubert

[Clugh]

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Thanks for your time and patience,
Hubert

[Clugh]

Halo Ralph!

Lokalmatador



Danke,
Hubert

[Clugh]

Oh Gott, schon wieder datenlose Geschichten, Doktor? Seit wann kann ein einfacher parallel gewickelter Scorpion-Motor von Ralph Okon, der Feuer fängt und Wechselrichter durch Entmagnetisierung des Rotors zerstört, nicht von 3 % mehr Drehmoment und rund 50 % weniger PM- und Rotorverlusten profitieren? Sie haben nicht den geringsten Beweis für den Mythos, dass Ihre Motoren keine Hilfe brauchen. Das tun sie definitiv. Sehen Sie die Brände nicht und dass Sie damit keine Durchschnittsgeschwindigkeit von 600 km/h fliegen? Es gibt 12 Jahre Industriebeispiele. Warum also mehr verlangen, wenn nichts in das kleine Reptilienhirn eines Krokodils vorgedrungen ist? Schade, dass Sie dem deutschen Erfinder gegenüber nicht ehrlich sein können.

Ihr Anwendungsbereich ist die Freizeitfliegerei, also brauchen SIE vielleicht keinen besseren Motor, der leiser ist und weniger Sprit verbraucht.

Piloten, die auf Geschwindigkeit aus sind, können immer stärkere Motoren verwenden, die kühler laufen.

Hier ist Ihr parallel gewickelter 50-mm-Skorpion-Croco-Speed-Motor, den nichts aus der "Akademie" verbessern kann
Sicher, Dr., was immer Sie sagen.

[Clugh]

If a pilot with a fast electric plane wants a modern 12 slot 10 pole motor winding that is more efficient and makes more power than the conventional wind Dr Okon uses they should look at the star-delta hybrid winding.. It is a quieter machine. The 12N10P motor with the hybrid winding has lower load losses, less radial vibration and core deformation. It is also more efficient than the conventional wind Ralph uses as the load increases. of course there is plenty of data on the subject matter specific to 12 slot 10 pole PM machine. There is no data with Dr Okon's posts or concurrence from any field professional on the subject matter of star-delta winding. I don't know why he continues to spread false narratives across all the hobby forums concerning the antiquated wind he uses. You would think a real Dr would have enough gravatas to post real data with his babble.

eg.

Wenn ein Pilot eines schnellen Elektroflugzeugs eine moderne 12-Nut-10-Pol-Motorwicklung sucht, die effizienter ist und mehr Leistung bringt als die konventionelle Wicklung von Dr. Okon, sollte er sich die Stern-Dreieck-Hybridwicklung ansehen. Sie ist leiser. Der 12N10P-Motor mit Hybridwicklung weist geringere Lastverluste, weniger Radialschwingungen und Kernverformungen auf. Er ist auch effizienter als die konventionelle Wicklung, die Ralph verwendet, wenn die Last zunimmt. Natürlich gibt es zahlreiche Daten zu diesem Thema speziell für 12-Nut-10-Pol-PM-Maschinen. Es gibt weder Daten zu Dr. Okons Beiträgen noch Zustimmung von Fachleuten zum Thema Stern-Dreieck-Wicklung. Ich weiß nicht, warum er weiterhin in allen Hobbyforen falsche Geschichten über die antiquierte Wicklung verbreitet, die er verwendet. Man sollte meinen, ein echter Dr. hätte genug Autorität, um neben seinem Geschwafel auch echte Daten zu veröffentlichen.

eg.

[Clugh]

To mislead hobbyist or potential pilots that something like this increase in load efficiency would be an "application" specific benefit is truly ignorant and a load of BS from Powercroco. Please note the academic prediction and MEASURED ones. Where is Dr Okons data? Predicted or measured???

to go along with these real test results. I've also showed him the lower idle currents I've recorded but the Dr wont report his constants.

[Clugh]

is a shame that a person would speak on its effectiveness in his application not realizing that his own ear and data such as this are a result of an eliminated first order stator MMF harmonic. That harmonic would also be the main one responsible for PM and rotor losses. This elimination would benefit motors that are demagnetizing and failing commutatively in their application.

[Clugh]

In the 12N10P the 1st 11th, and 13th stator MMF harmonics are eliminated. The winding factor of the 12N10P hybrid is also 96.6 % the winding factor of the wind Dr Okon uses is 93.3%. That means 3% more of the copper is being used to produce torque. At the same amp draw the hybrid winding can produce 3% more torque. It also has lower torque ripple. Unless his plane has no use for all around better motor he simple cannot admit that the American he is subscribed to is well ahead of him in understanding and apparently execution because I still haven't seen a star-delta hybrid run there or any data from it.

[Clugh]

Star and Delta Hybrid connection (SDHC)

In the section, FLUX is employed to calculate electromagnetic force of the PM machine and the vibration and acoustic noise are predicted by boundary element method, which is also the so-called LMS Virtual Lab. This software is the global leader CAE software dedicated to noise analysis. Fig. 17 presents the stator core deformation of the FSCW-PM machines with the SDHC windings configuration, as compared with the conventional one. As exhibited in Fig. 14, the SDHC windings configuration PM machine has lower amplitude of the second-order radial force harmonic than that of the conventional one; thus, it has less stator deformation in the same frequency point of 500 Hz. As seen in Fig. 17, the maximum displacement of the PM machine with the SDHC windings is about 1.4 × 10−5 mm and the conventional one is about 1.6 × 10−5 mm. In other words, high vibration will cause in the conventional machine, and will lead to loud acoustic noise. Moreover, Fig. 18 indicates the acoustic noise pressure of both FSCWPM machines. From Fig. 18, it can be seen that the circular surface of the measurement field is around 38.5 dB at 500 Hz, while the conventional PM machine is around 40.2 dB at the same frequency point of 500 Hz. That is, the PM machine with the SDHC windings configuration can weaken sound pressure amplitude.

Star and Delta Hybrid Connection of a FSCW PM Machine for Low Space Harmonics Wenxiang Zhao , Senior Member, IEEE, Junqiang Zheng, Jinghua Ji , Shengdao Zhu, and Mei Kang

[Clugh]

Hallo Deutschland
Wenn Powercroco festgestellt hat, dass der Stern-Dreieck-Hybrid in seinen Anwendungen nichts zu suchen hat, warum sollte er dann noch daran interessiert sein, dass jemand anderes „ECHTE INDUSTRIELLE ANWENDUNGEN“ teilt? Dr. Ralph Okons sollte endlich erwachsen werden und ehrlich zu den Hobbyforen sein, denn er hat keine Volllastdaten zu einer Stern-Hybridwicklung. Niemand in der Elektrotechnik schenkt diesem Mann überhaupt Beachtung.

[Clugh]

Wer glaubt Dr. Okon? Wenn er in seiner Bewerbung Volllastdaten zur Stern-Dreieck-Hybridschaltung hätte, warum müsste er dann ein ganzes Forum dazu befragen? Vor allem, wenn er dort der Guru sein soll? Ralph erzählt dir nur Scheißlügen und ist ein Mythomane.

Sofern Sie nicht dumm sind, wissen Sie, dass er, wenn er über umfassende Daten zu diesem Thema verfügte, die keine Verbesserung zeigten, diese veröffentlichen und dem Crazy American und dem IEEE die Tür vor der Nase zuschlagen würde.



Danke,
Hubert

[Clugh]

Also Ralph, wenn du etwas über Motoroptimierung verstündest, könntest du durchschnittlich 600 km/h fliegen. Niemand, der dir zuhört, hat das mit deinen Motor- und Antriebsvorschlägen je geschafft. Das ist Fakt. Meine F3A-Motoren sind überhaupt kein Testgelände für deinen Unsinn. Ich weiß, du bist neidisch, dass niemand deinen 3225 mit 5-Dollar-Lagern haben will. Und wer hat dir gesagt, dass niemand einen Hybrid fliegt? Du weißt wieder nicht, wovon du redest.

Sie reden nur über Nichtigkeiten, weil Sie keine Daten haben. Warum lügen Sie in Hobbyforen?

[Clugh]

Du hast keine Volllastdaten. Was hat mein F3A-Motor damit zu tun, dass du ohne Daten dein Gerede redest und im Forum belügst, dass du welche hast? Wo sind denn die Volllastdaten zum Stern-Hybrid-Wind, Ralph?


Ein langsam denkendes Krokodil hat absolut keine Ahnung, was wir hier im amerikanischen Wickelprogramm tun oder anbieten. Deshalb sind Sie jeden Tag hier bei Nummer 3 oder 4 und versuchen neugierig, es herauszufinden. @ 4:54 Uhr EST

Volle Datenlast... Junge, bitte... du hast kein Molekül davon.

Sie sollten die Volllastdaten und Betriebstemperaturen während Ihrer Motorausfälle im Video veröffentlichen, in dem die gesamten Flugzeugbatterien und der Wechselrichter komplett zerstört werden. Sie haben insbesondere Rotoren entmagnetisiert und Wicklungen verbrannt. Die Temperaturen über 200 °C. Sie behaupten, der Motor könne mehr aushalten. Warum kommt es dann zu einem katastrophalen Ausfall, wenn kein mechanischer Defekt die Ursache ist? Sie sollten den Bericht mit den Volllastdaten veröffentlichen. Ich habe nämlich einen hier im Video.

[Clugh]

Wash rinse repeat

You know the truth....You dont have an iota of full load data on a star- delta hybrid connected scorpion or pyro to offer a single speed pilot or the forums in 2025.

der 5050 und der yge 320 haben nie eine Durchschnittsgeschwindigkeit von 600 km/h erreicht


Danke
Hubert

[Clugh]

The applications here in North America the hybrid will work very well Dr Okon so please don't tell the forum more untruths about what we do here.. I certainly plan to implement it. but we already surpass you with the standard drive and also have a new direct drive composite contra that makes this thing look like a real massive mess . You never have to worry about the F3A motors Ralph because they are already better than what you build. Pilots here do not have to worry about you catching up for years especially with a Wye wound scorpion outrunner with 2 bearings. It will fail in the Brenner v4 drive almost everyday.

That's no cap either The 3225 scorpion has very poor mechanical integrity as the stamped stator is the only thing that centers the far end cheap 5 dollar bearing. And it only has 2..


BTW how much does this thing in the attachment weight 1000 Grams??

Lets not forget Dr Okon when it comes to things like setting up the low pass filtering on modern day inverters there isn't a clue in Dresden.....

Meine deutschen Freunde, euer Motorleiter ist sich anscheinend der sogenannten Restinduktivität in einem Magneten nicht bewusst und weiß nicht, wie die Magneterhitzung zu einem Verlust der Flussdichte und damit auch zu einem Verlust des Feldes für die Kommutierung führt, bevor der Curie-Punkt im PM erreicht wird.

Das steht in direktem Zusammenhang mit Synchronisationsverlusten und einem geringeren Drehmoment der Maschine.
.

[Clugh]

Lets look at the degradation of the magnetic field as a function of temperature.

But first consider the geometry used in these test results

Grade 45M Cylindrical Neo magnet
0.500″ OD x 0.500″ thick (M)
Work-piece 3/8″ thick 1018 mild steel
0.005″ gap between the magnet and work-piece


~ chart courtesy of Dura Magnetics~

we see here the attractive force of the magnet, is proportional to 2 times the degradation of the Residual Induction (Br). This is a good first order estimate and it can be used, but should be validated empirically.

• Even though a selected grade of magnet does not experience an irreversible loss (i.e. permanent demagnetization) when heated up, it will still lose net magnetic field.

• For recoverable losses due to heating, a magnet will recover when cooled back down.

• Even though a magnet did not experience an irrecoverable loss, the recoverable loss may be such that the magnet fails to deliver adequate field at an elevated operating temperature.

• The Residual Induction Temperature Coefficient α (Br) can be used to estimate the degradation of the Br for a specified temperature range.

• The resulting percent decrease in attractive force or net field is proportional to 2 times the percent degradation of the Residual Induction (Br).

• Selecting a higher heat tolerance grade may not solve the problem of reversible field losses due to heat. A higher heat tolerance will mean that the magnet will not experience an irreversible loss at higher temperatures. This does not mean the percent loss of Br per degree C will be improved to the point the magnet will be successful in the application. The solution may be in the magnetic geometry design or changing alloys.

You see the magnetic field is a descending line as a function of the magnets temperature to demag. Are you sure this wind that drastically reduces this heat in the magnets does nothing you could feel. From here it should be apparent that the Energy Density (Grade) drops considerably as the magnet is heated up. The grade 45 essentially becomes a grade 38.7. This loss is reversible and the magnet will recover, but the application may be in jeopardy as the net field of the magnet degrades.

What else is apparent is the magnet loses a full two pounds of attracting force when going from 20°C to 100°C.