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Official Freewing 90mm F-4 Phantom II Thread

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  • GG, if I use half flap on take off and it is in trim then on landing come through half flap to full flap and the plane dips a wing, how does the gyro know whether it was a gust of wind or one flap a few degrees out of trim? Would the gyro not bring it back to level fight using ailerons to compensate or is the gyro only a single momentary correction? Just asking, don't have the problem. !

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    • Hi Locharrow,

      I had a PJ-50 flap horn working loose. So I was getting a slight asymmetric flap deployment.

      I can tell you from experience that the gyro DID NOT stop the slight roll. It may have reduced the amount of toll, but she still rolled. Maybe because I had the gyro gain at 30 to 40%. A higher setting may have locked down the roll….probably would have.

      Others with more gyro knowledge will need to add their comments.

      -GG

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      • I gyro counteracts bumps so it won't level out the plane. If you have a self leveling gyro (SAFE) then in that mode it will.

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        • E D , I was flying around in some kind of safety mode last week when it would not let me roll so I wont be there again!!

          Another great flying morning, light grey sky and park to myself. Did all the trims that needed doing after last flight. I set the battery back 1/4" from my usual mark. I was expecting to use trim to bring the nose down but it settled into nice level flight after flaps up. Very pleased with the set up now, if it gets any better I will try landing between the goal posts ! ...

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          • I remember your posts...

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            • https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZdScd...UJTG9jaGFycm93 Well they shifted the goal posts to the middle of my take off and landing strip so I might add a battery operated grinder to my flight box ….😎

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              • Well, I found out today the gyro does not compensate for trim!! Took off half flap as usual, gear up OK...flaps up ... wanted to roll right in a big way. Put in left trim which sort of half fixed it but still having to hold a lot of left stick. Flew a couple of passes but not pleasant. I had planned to land into the wind on the short football pitch but that would mean flying the crippled crate " good phrase that " low over guys building houses so chose a downwind half flap fast-ish landing. . Put the flaps down and lo and behold it started to behave a lot better. Landed OK, fast but fine and I taxied it back to the car. Raised the flaps and the left one stayed down. I thought it would be a pull apart job but it turned out to be just a faulty connector on the board, fairly easy fix so onwards and upwards ....

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                • Yep! As we stated…regarding the gyro.

                  It’s a forgiving bird. I had the rudder servo jam at full throw when I did my 180 degree turn around from taxi to take-off heading a few weeks ago.

                  As you say, she wanted to roll, but the aileron compensated. After I settled down and realized she could still fly, brought her in for a landing.

                  Rudder servo was replaced before the next flight.

                  Love the F-4

                  -GG

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                  • On my radio I can have where there are separate trims for different functions and if flaps cause a roll I have were the flap lever changes the roll trim as flaps go up and down. Simple as a click in my radios trim function.

                    But that is only a last resort after making sure flap travel is identical.

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                    • Originally posted by locharrow View Post
                      Well, I found out today the gyro does not compensate for trim!! Took off half flap as usual, gear up OK...flaps up ... wanted to roll right in a big way. Put in left trim which sort of half fixed it but still having to hold a lot of left stick. Flew a couple of passes but not pleasant. I had planned to land into the wind on the short football pitch but that would mean flying the crippled crate " good phrase that " low over guys building houses so chose a downwind half flap fast-ish landing. . Put the flaps down and lo and behold it started to behave a lot better. Landed OK, fast but fine and I taxied it back to the car. Raised the flaps and the left one stayed down. I thought it would be a pull apart job but it turned out to be just a faulty connector on the board, fairly easy fix so onwards and upwards ....
                      I agree with Evan D. I have every aircraft with flaps set up that way. On a Spektrum transmitter, that ability is found under F-Mode setup (not to be confused with gyro Flight Modes set up with a Spektrum RX), where you assign Flight Modes to a switch, in this case, I assign that switch as D, which is my Flap switch. Then go down to Trim Setup and you can see each surface default set as unassigned. Next to the ailerons, I change it to F-Mode and even more important change the elevator to F-Mode. That way I can trim ail/ele at each flap setting and the trim is retained. Makes flying with flaps so much easier, but of course you are quite busy on the maiden trimming both Aileron and Elevator at each flap setting. When finished, the aircraft remains level as does the AoA at each flap setting.
                      Hugh "Wildman" Wiedman
                      Hangar: FL/FW: Mig 29 "Cobra", A-10 Arctic, F18 Canadian & Tiger Meet, F16 Wild Weasel, F4 Phantom & Blue Angel, 1600 Corsair & Spitfire, Olive B-24, Stinger 90, Red Avanti. Extreme Flight-FW-190 Red Tulip, Slick 60, 60" Extra 300 V2, 62" MXS Heavy Metal, MXS Green, & Demonstrator. FMS-1700mm P-51, Red Bull Corsair. E-Flite-70mm twin SU-30, Beast Bi-Plane 60", P2 Bi-Plane, P-51.

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                      • Usually I will put in the recommended elevator to flap mix and fly it with normal trims, not on F-Mode. If I find flaps cause more or less elevator compensation I'll just put it in the mix. If I note a roll with flaps that's when I go in and to the F-Mode as you are saying. I keep flaps on a slider and it's nice how it keeps the trim proportional as you apply or reduce flaps.

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                        • Well, I like to keep it simple. I just grabbed it's neck and said "now listen jack straighten up and fly right". Seemed to work, good flight yesterday, no trouble at all.

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                          • locharrow
                            I solemnly swear to "over-celebrate" the smallest of victories.
                            ~Lucky B*st*rd~

                            You'll never be good at something unless you're willing to suck at it first.
                            ~Anonymous~

                            AMA#116446

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by locharrow View Post
                              Well, I like to keep it simple. I just grabbed it's neck and said "now listen jack straighten up and fly right". Seemed to work, good flight yesterday, no trouble at all.
                              That works best for me when I grab the neck of the reflection I see in a mirror.

                              -GG

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                              • Without getting teknikal guys, on HRB 6000s I'm flying 4 minutes at varied speeds. Batteries read out, when re-charging, around 3.8 most cells quite consistently. Without getting to the point of no return, is there another half minute to be found in them ...or even a full minute. Now bear in mind I am VERY old and my brain is mince so keep it SIMPLE !! (please)

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                                • Originally posted by locharrow View Post
                                  Without getting teknikal guys, on HRB 6000s I'm flying 4 minutes at varied speeds. Batteries read out, when re-charging, around 3.8 most cells quite consistently. Without getting to the point of no return, is there another half minute to be found in them ...or even a full minute. Now bear in mind I am VERY old and my brain is mince so keep it SIMPLE !! (please)
                                  You can SLOW flight, but she’s a jet! Why?

                                  I fly only 3:30 to have an emergency reserve.

                                  LiPos will last a lot longer if you stop at a low voltage of 3.8 V (about 40% left in the tank).

                                  Good idea for several reasons to stay at 3:30 in my opinion. I fly 6000s SMC and Admiral

                                  B-2 = 5 min
                                  AL37 = 4:30
                                  PJ50 = 4 but I hot rod this bird
                                  F-4 = 3:30

                                  If you would fly these at 25% power only, you could extend all of them. But….THEY ARE JETS!!! Why?

                                  -GG

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                                  • GG......I may have given the wrong info,.....the timing starts when I switch on TX, I then plug in and taxi out 50yards or so then take off. Warning is set at 3.30 min. when I set up to land. That is "my" 4 min.. I was hoping that I could extend that a wee bit as it galls me to have to land because it is great watching it fly.
                                    I get 6-8 minutes on my 4000s in the FMS Pitts but don't have the same "don't want to land" feeling!

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                                    • I start my timer and take off immediately, no taxi time. I am flying a full 3:30…you are not.

                                      You have 3 choices then….to fly longer:

                                      1) fly slow.
                                      2) Start your timer later or increase it to compensate for taxi time. Not much power is being used during taxi.
                                      3) install a more efficient motor…there are choices to be made from. Others will need to comment.

                                      -GG

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                                      • I post many times that we time our flights many different ways. Like GG I taxi out (paved taxi/ runway so not using a lot of power) and before taking off I reset the timer which starts at 15% throttle and continues running. I have a voice time remaining call out whenever I go to idle and at one minute a warning. At the one minute I begin the set up to land and usually touch down as my timer goes off.

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                                        • Originally posted by GliderGuy View Post

                                          You can SLOW flight, but she’s a jet! Why?

                                          I fly only 3:30 to have an emergency reserve.

                                          LiPos will last a lot longer if you stop at a low voltage of 3.8 V (about 40% left in the tank).

                                          Good idea for several reasons to stay at 3:30 in my opinion. I fly 6000s SMC and Admiral

                                          B-2 = 5 min
                                          AL37 = 4:30
                                          PJ50 = 4 but I hot rod this bird
                                          F-4 = 3:30

                                          If you would fly these at 25% power only, you could extend all of them. But….THEY ARE JETS!!! Why?

                                          -GG
                                          Wow 40% left in your batteries, I got batteries 4 yrs old and have been ran down to 14% several times by accident, my normal is about 30%, still flying them today, not puffy but starting to get a little soft, I won't name the brand so I don't start a brand war, I have proof that you can go lower than 40% , if I stayed at 40% I would get 10yrs...

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