Official Freewing F/A-18C Hornet 90mm EDF Thread

[Evan D]

I also have one of the very first ones, Blue Angel. Well over 100 flights with all the stock stuff except its got a 3400w 8S set up and I pulled out the wing ribbon cables and ran individual extensions to the servos. I bypassed the MCBe for everything but retracts and lights.

Zero issues and one of my favorite planes.

But yeah, lots of people have said they have had servo and BB issues.

[Moose115]

Looking for help. Tried to maiden my grey hornet with 1900kv motor upgrade. Smooth grass field, no bouncing but grass cut a bit long. I could not get airborne 6 tries on 600’ Rwy. 6s 6000 battery stock cg 88 -90, with 3/4 flaps. By book settings. Any suggestions to get this thing in air? Move cg more aft,,, full flaps.... smaller battery would 3300 work for short flight..... working on getting field a shorter cut...

thanks for any help
Moose

[xviper]

Looking for help. Tried to maiden my grey hornet with 1900kv motor upgrade. Smooth grass field, no bouncing but grass cut a bit long. I could not get airborne 6 tries on 600’ Rwy. 6s 6000 battery stock cg 88 -90, with 3/4 flaps. By book settings. Any suggestions to get this thing in air? Move cg more aft,,, full flaps.... smaller battery would 3300 work for short flight..... working on getting field a shorter cut...

thanks for any help
Moose

I had the same problem with the previous outrunner EDF. It reached terminal velocity on grass quite quickly but can't go faster than that and not enough for take off. I would have thought that the new inrunner version would have enough punch to make it happen. I can only suggest you don't use so much flaps and too much will slow the plane down and NOT help it with lift. Also use high rates on the elevator to help with rotation. Try a lighter battery. A 6000 may simply be too much weight for grass. I was using 5000 and it couldn't do it. A stronger head wind might help. If it still can't get off the ground with these changes, I fear it never will. 600 feet is a very long run. Anything beyond 300 feet isn't going to make much difference.

[Hugh Wiedman]

Looking for help. Tried to maiden my grey hornet with 1900kv motor upgrade. Smooth grass field, no bouncing but grass cut a bit long. I could not get airborne 6 tries on 600’ Rwy. 6s 6000 battery stock cg 88 -90, with 3/4 flaps. By book settings. Any suggestions to get this thing in air? Move cg more aft,,, full flaps.... smaller battery would 3300 work for short flight..... working on getting field a shorter cut...

thanks for any help
Moose

Moose not sure this will make a difference, but at the start of the take-off run, use full up elevator to help keep the nose wheels from "digging" into the grass. I have the grey F-18 that I redid into the Canadian version with a 3D cockpit and all the extra weight added an additional 1.2 pounds to the stock grey version and I was still able to get it off of grass in about 130 feet using 1/2 flaps and with the original stock 9 blade 3748-1750 Kv outrunner. Our grass is cut to about 3/4 inches so it is possible your field is just too high. I'm also using the RT 6250 battery and have the CG around 92 mm, and that's with the battery all the way back into the fuselage because of all the extra weight, especially in the nose with the 3D cockpit. I've noticed that most of my EDF's, especially with my F-16 and SU-30 which are even heavier, if you accelerate on take-off with the elevator in the neutral position and wait for it to hit V1 before giving it up elevator, it almost never gets there. On the other hand, by starting off with full up elevator it seems to get up to speed much quicker, but before you reach V1, you need to ease off the elevator so it doesn't take-off with an extremely high AOA and stall.

You'll notice that the nose will have a tendency to bounce a little up when you do this, but that's almost a good thing because it cuts way down on the drag of that nose wheel. All the large turbine jet pilots do this because the jets have a tendency to push down on the nose wheel during takeoff making it act like a brake. These guys all told me to try this and it cut my take-off run on all my EDF's by at least half the distance I was accustomed to taking off in. And as xviper said, a little head wind also couldn't hurt. Hope this helps.

[Mizer67]

My F-18 doesn't arrive until Sunday, but here's what I'd try:

• CG at 100mm
• Try a 5000 mah battery no more than ~820 - 850 grams or so, lighter if you have them and as high a C as you have
• Don't use more than about 25 degrees of flap, more than that usually just adds drag (as mentioned by xviper )
• Per Hugh Wiedman, keep the weight off of the nose wheel when starting the T/O roll
• Make sure your fan isn't full of grass clippings, that would kill any chance you had of making V(r) / V(rot)
• Test your static thrust on the ground using a fish scale - I'd expect to see around 3000 grams of thrust
• Check your battery performance on a watt meter to make sure you're making the rated power at WOT

If all that fails, the last ditch effort you could try is charging your lipos to 4.35V per cell vs. 4.20V if your charger is capable of increasing the end point. The lipos can take it, but it will reduce their lifespan by 20-25%. You'd need to double check your ESC is up to the task though too.

Only other thing to try would bring a weed whacker to the field with you and make yourself a narrow strip with very short grass. I've done that out of frustration on one rare occasion.

[Hugh Wiedman]

My F-18 doesn't arrive until Sunday, but here's what I'd try:

• CG at 100mm
• Try a 5000 mah battery no more than ~820 - 850 grams or so, lighter if you have them and as high a C as you have
• Don't use more than about 25 degrees of flap, more than that usually just adds drag (as mentioned by xviper )
• Per Hugh Wiedman, keep the weight off of the nose wheel when starting the T/O roll
• Make sure your fan isn't full of grass clippings, that would kill any chance you had of making V(r) / V(rot)
• Test your static thrust on the ground using a fish scale - I'd expect to see around 3000 grams of thrust
• Check your battery performance on a watt meter to make sure you're making the rated power at WOT

If all that fails, the last ditch effort you could try is charging your lipos to 4.35V per cell vs. 4.20V if your charger is capable of increasing the end point. The lipos can take it, but it will reduce their lifespan by 20-25%. You'd need to double check your ESC is up to the task though too.

Only other thing to try would bring a weed whacker to the field with you and make yourself a narrow strip with very short grass. I've done that out of frustration on one rare occasion.

Great Advice Mizer67 The Admiral 5000 50C (more likely a 25C according to my IR meter) actually weighs about 730 g. The Roaring Top 6250 35C only weighs 790 g and the actual C is more like 27C, and if you want to try the HRB 6000 50C (actual 35C) it weighs in at 830 g. I suggest you try the HRB 6000 which will give that inrunner about 200-300 Watts of more power because of the higher C. I use those in my inrunners in the F-16 and SU-30 and they get off grass nicely. I use the RT 6250 in my F-18 for 3 reasons, 1) it's the least heavy of the 3, 2) it provides the longest flight time and 3) my F-18 has the stock outrunner and in my power tests, the outrunner does not benefit as much from a higher C compared to an inrunner.

[Elbee]

Hey Hornet Drivers, Still plugging away with big graphics and some reassembly. I keep finding those, "I'll do that when I get to that point" items' however, excited to have finished the install of the Tail Hook Assembly. I will redesign the cover to a more scale length but other than that, it's done. Got some 3DPUP trim parts installed including (Insert Original Author's Name Here) LEX Fence Bracket. It is a perfect fit, I printed it at .5mm Z which worked better for me. Anyway, big thank you there. More, when there's more. Best, LB and Happy Labor Day.

[Mizer67]

Looking for help. Tried to maiden my grey hornet with 1900kv motor upgrade. Smooth grass field, no bouncing but grass cut a bit long. I could not get airborne 6 tries on 600’ Rwy. 6s 6000 battery stock cg 88 -90, with 3/4 flaps. By book settings. Any suggestions to get this thing in air? Move cg more aft,,, full flaps.... smaller battery would 3300 work for short flight..... working on getting field a shorter cut...

thanks for any help
Moose

I forgot one item:

• You could try to change the AoA on the ground to make it sit higher

Typically, folks shim the nose gear on other planes, or potentially switch to a larger nose wheel. Conversely though less common, you could compress the mains perhaps. I've seen folks add rubber tubing to the nose gear as well to keep it from compressing as much under load. As Hugh Wiedman mentioned, that's a killer if the nose digs into the grass as it also negatively effects the planes AoA, making it harder to break loose.

One thing I'll say is I've noticed the difference in flight between high C batteries and low C batteries. The difference is more than you'd think. I've seen a 6% increase in top speed and 10% in vertical just from changing batteries, even though they're heavier.

[Aros]

I'll say Elbee you will have the most scale FW F/A-18 out of all of us! Love seeing the progress my friend.

[HellHathNoFury]

I forgot one item:

• You could try to change the AoA on the ground to make it sit higher

Typically, folks shim the nose gear on other planes, or potentially switch to a larger nose wheel. Conversely though less common, you could compress the mains perhaps. I've seen folks add rubber tubing to the nose gear as well to keep it from compressing as much under load. As Hugh Wiedman mentioned, that's a killer if the nose digs into the grass as it also negatively effects the planes AoA, making it harder to break loose.

One thing I'll say is I've noticed the difference in flight between high C batteries and low C batteries. The difference is more than you'd think. I've seen a 6% increase in top speed and 10% in vertical just from changing batteries, even though they're heavier.

Noticeable performance between Graphenes & normal batteries... Though heavier Graphenes make up for it in Performance.. I fly with CNHL 5000mah G+ 70c & Black series 65c .. Definitely notice the difference in rotation,fast passes & Verticals ..Running a Wemo Evo/1900kv SK3 motor..

[xviper]

For my EDFs, I buy nothing below 70C since I know I'm getting only about 40C to 45C anyway. The only exception are my Gens Ace, which I get in 45C and occasionally in 60C. The Gens 45C seems to perform just as well as other brands of 70C. I'm sold on the CNHL LiPos. I've not tried some of the other high end LiPos (like Roaring Tops or HRB) due to higher cost and difficulty in obtaining where I live.

[Hugh Wiedman]

Hey Hornet Drivers, Still plugging away with big graphics and some reassembly. I keep finding those, "I'll do that when I get to that point" items' however, excited to have finished the install of the Tail Hook Assembly. I will redesign the cover to a more scale length but other than that, it's done. Got some 3DPUP trim parts installed including (Insert Original Author's Name Here) LEX Fence Bracket. It is a perfect fit, I printed it at .5mm Z which worked better for me. Anyway, big thank you there. More, when there's more. Best, LB and Happy Labor Day.

Quite simply put, OUTSTANDING!

[Elbee]

Thanks, Hugh.

[Hugh Wiedman]

I forgot one item:

• You could try to change the AoA on the ground to make it sit higher

Typically, folks shim the nose gear on other planes, or potentially switch to a larger nose wheel. Conversely though less common, you could compress the mains perhaps. I've seen folks add rubber tubing to the nose gear as well to keep it from compressing as much under load. As Hugh Wiedman mentioned, that's a killer if the nose digs into the grass as it also negatively effects the planes AoA, making it harder to break loose.

One thing I'll say is I've noticed the difference in flight between high C batteries and low C batteries. The difference is more than you'd think. I've seen a 6% increase in top speed and 10% in vertical just from changing batteries, even though they're heavier.

As I've mentioned before and detailed in the thread I started under batteries called "Lipo Wars", I've found that inrunners definitely produce more power with a higher C battery, however, in all the outrunners I've tested, they do not seem to benefit as much. For example, the 90mm outrunners in my F-18 (stock grey originally), the 2 F-4's, the Stinger 90 and now the 2 80mm EDF's in the A-10, the power was virtually the same using a 35C Roaring Top 6250, and 50C HRB 6000 and a 70C RT 5500. Specifically, those numbers for the A-10 were 87.3 Ah/1999 Watts on the 35C, 89.65 Ah/2061 Watts on the 50C and 89.75 Ah/2081 Watts on the 70 C. The F-18 (and F-4 showing similar results) outrunner tested at 114 Ah/2750 Watts, 115.6 Ah/2785 Watts and 116.2 Ah/2798 Watts. Statistically the same so in these I use the battery with the highest mAh and lowest weight (RT 6250).

The inrunners were much different. In my F-16 with the upgraded inrunner (4068-1835 Kv) and the SU-30 with it's 2 1850 Kv inrunners, the difference in power with a higher C battery was significant. 113.7 Ah/2594 Watts, 115.6 Ah/2693 Watts, 117.1 Ah/2810 Watts. The difference was so dramatic that you could actually feel and hear the difference on the bench and in flight the take-off run is a good 40 feet shorter and vertical is significantly enhanced (can't tell you about the speed though as I do not have a "jugs" gun to test that). With those EDF's, I'll use the higher C battery for increased performance, either the HRB 6000 or the RT 5500.

Since the upgraded grey F-18 now comes with the 1900 Kv inrunner, it will definitely benefit from a higher C battery.

[Hugh Wiedman]

I forgot one item:

• You could try to change the AoA on the ground to make it sit higher

Typically, folks shim the nose gear on other planes, or potentially switch to a larger nose wheel. Conversely though less common, you could compress the mains perhaps. I've seen folks add rubber tubing to the nose gear as well to keep it from compressing as much under load. As Hugh Wiedman mentioned, that's a killer if the nose digs into the grass as it also negatively effects the planes AoA, making it harder to break loose.
.

Completely agree Mizer67 . I changed the nose wheel in my F-16 and SU-30 from the stock 1 3/4" to a 2" in the F-16 and a 2 1/4" in the SU-30. This changed the A0A enough (along with the easier rotation of a larger wheel on grass) to now resulting in both jets taking off of our grass field in 100 feet and 130 feet respectively. I even stuck the heavy Hobbystar 8000 in both and each got off in almost the same distance. Flight characteristics on the F-16 where not affected at all (but man the extra flight time was great) but the SU-30 labored in vertical performance so I no longer bother to put that battery in.

It may be difficult to replace the 2 nose wheels on the F-18 with larger ones but if you can shim the gear, that would help. I haven't had to do that on mine so it is still stock and gets off the grass just fine.

[dam718]

Hi guys, I am working on a VFC-12 Fighting Omars livery on a base gray F/A-18, but in reference to the picture below the base gray paint from Freewing is a bit light.

For the guys that have done custom liveries, are you folks just using the stock base gray paint as your canvas, or respraying with a darker gray to better match the scale aircraft?

I just have a feeling if I stick with the stock paint, while I may be the only one to ever notice, it would bother me. So I'm likely going to respray, just looking for suggestions on what paints / colors folks are using. If there is a good base color from Krylon/Rustoleum, etc, that would work. Or even Vallejo, Tamiya, Createx airbush paints would be even better as I prefer to not use a rattle can if I can help it.

Thanks!

[Waconut]

dam718 you can always go to Lowe’s/Home Depot and get a sample can of latex mixed to the color you want. I did that for the base gray on my F-18 and F-4.

[Mizer67]

I'm not sure about VFC-12's livery match, but I'm going to do a VFA-192 livery and their colors.

Testors 1741 (FS36375) and Testors 1748 (FS36320) are supposed to be the matches for VFA-192 colors based on the research I did. My paints are still on the way, have not had a chance to test them yet, but will likely spray over the base coat as I agree it's a bit on the light side.

I'm a little concerned about the weight it will add though. My model's already higher than spec. weight; weight is the enemy.

[Elbee]

Mizer67 I use whatever is the best match to the colors that are called out. In your case, if the OEM Base Gray is not what you like, paint it. I prime over the OEM paint and go from there, usually in black or dark gray. Krylon primer and then mostly HD exterior latex, but if it's available in the correct color I will use Model Masters enamels or Vallejo acrylic or whatever. I finish with matte clear polycrylic from Krylon or Hobby Lobby Tree House brand. Those are preferences, there are many good spray clear acrylics. Hope I've not muddied the water too much for you. Best, LB

[Mizer67]

Mizer67 I use whatever is the best match to the colors that are called out. In your case, if the OEM Base Gray is not what you like, paint it. I prime over the OEM paint and go from there, usually in black or dark gray. Krylon primer and then mostly HD exterior latex, but if it's available in the correct color I will use Model Masters enamels or Vallejo acrylic or whatever. I finish with matte clear polycrylic from Krylon or Hobby Lobby Tree House brand. Those are preferences, there are many good spray clear acrylics. Hope I've not muddied the water too much for you. Best, LB

Thanks Elbee.

Mine's already ~98 grams heavy vs. factory spec. (perhaps the Hi-Perf. motor weighs more than the old outrunner), so I don't want to add too much more weight. I'm probably just going to leave the light base gray on the bottom and do the dark ghost gray on the top and sides where the three-way view indicates. I don't want to strip off all of the old paint with acetone just to change it, that's a pain.

I did get mine out flying this weekend for the maiden. I had an eventful first flight as I lost signal on the 6 ch. Admiral receiver I used, again. This was my only spare receiver and MRC said it "checked out" in range testing when I sent it in (and it checked good on range testing on the ground) but once I got the model out there in flight, I lost signal....fortunately in level flight. Had the same issue with my F-22 with this receiver...diversity antennas carefully aligned and taped in place...

The model pitched up at a ~20 degree angle after the motor shut off and started to slow, but luckily I regained control before it stalled and I so brought it in nervously to land and did quite a bit of a "kangaroo" hop as I tried to correct positioning to avoid a curb. I didn't want to risk a go-around with a wonky RF signal. Fortunately no damage other than some scrapes on the tail cone. Those gear are tough.

Need to put in a different receiver and have another go, probably not until next weekend. Hoping I'll still have a plane to fly once the decals and paint arrive. 😅

[Evan D]

From the people on here and at my field I would take a hammer to that receiver.