Official Freewing F/A-18C Hornet 90mm EDF Thread

[janmb]

Today's flights, tweaking an Eagle Tree Guardian II for landings

The second landing was really good - far better (less) energy than the others.

As for the third (go around), I would highly recommend a tad more patience before climbing out since you have the space for it. Staying low and wings level allows building more speed, giving much more margins in the climbing turn. A completely necessary thing if ever going turbines as well.

[Carlbrainiac]

Interesting Motion RC Europe still says eta late June and we're now the 1st July lol

[janmb]

Interesting Motion RC Europe still says eta late June and we're now the 1st July lol

Apparently, mid July for blue, late July for gray has been confirmed. Shame they don't update publicly

[Carlbrainiac]

Apparently, mid July for blue, late July for gray has been confirmed. Shame they don't update publicly

Yeah believe me I know. Ordered my base grey pnp on the 14th May. Gonna be a long wait for me.

I just find it funny that website says eta date will be updated here if any changes and it hasn't. Lol.

[Evan D]

Slow your flaps servos. Mine isn't doing any momentary pitch.

I also added up ailerons to my flaps and rudder air brakes. Remember it will need different elevator compensation.

Glad you got the setup ok, Steve. Shaq and I flew my plane this evening, three flights which makes a total of 8 to date. I flew the last two tonight. Went very well, the only thing that alarmed me a bit was when I added full flaps on downwind leg the plane pitched down appreciably, but was easy to recover. When we flew it slower on downwind leg for landing and extended the full span flaps, we didn’t get that big momentary down pitch. I’m happy with it so far. We are going to next experiment with tow- in on the rudders when flaps are down.

[clearprop88]

Today's flights, tweaking an Eagle Tree Guardian II for landings

I haven't built mine yet, but I want to put a Guardian in it.
Would you show your installation of the G.
Thanks

[Aros]

Did you figure out the Thrust problem??

No, I didn't change a thing and it seems to be peppier now...No clue. Gremlins love this particular one, lol. As long as they got their fix and moved on! LOL

[Aros]

Interesting Motion RC Europe still says eta late June and we're now the 1st July lol

Updated. My bad, I missed the notification that the ETA had changed...

[Desertlakeflying]

Look, stock set up works otherwise we wouldn't recommend it. Now for you hard core scale aficionados a scale mix is absolutely wonderful (like Steve has going) but is it necessary to fly this model successfully? Not hardly. I have flown this model with the stock set up and it's great. But myself being the fan I am of this jet I want more so I fully plan on stealing, er, borrowing Steve's SPM file to get this model flying closer to scale in all her configurations. Not because it's necessary but because it's FUN!

Except stock power when you are anything above sea level. That is ALWAYS marginal at best.

[RCjetdude]

Except stock power when you are anything above sea level. That is ALWAYS marginal at best.

Do you say that about all EDF manufacturers of just Freewing? I am at 2300' ASL and don't find the power marginal at all but if people want more they are free to install whatever they want.

[fredmdbud]

Do you say that about all EDF manufacturers of just Freewing? I am at 2300' ASL and don't find the power marginal at all but if people want more they are free to install whatever they want.

Reno is 4,505 ASL. Same complaints have been made in Colorado. Places like these are doomed to upgrades.

Just sell the stock power unit to offset the upgrades, or buy ARF Plus.

[RCjetdude]

Reno is 4,505 ASL. Same complaints have been made in Colorado. Places like these are doomed to upgrades.

Just sell the stock power unit to offset the upgrades, or buy ARF Plus.

Granted but the comment basically said "anything above sea level being ALWAYS marginal at best."

[Nottoday]

What kind of CG do you fly?

[Carlbrainiac]

Quick question with flying with gyros. I have never used one but curious about them.

My only concern is does it smooth it out too much? What I mean by that is when I'm coming in to land I can see if I have slowed the model up too much because its starts trying to drop a wing. This alerts me to react and add more power. My worry is that if a gyro reacts to that then I'm not going to know I'm close to stall speed...

[Evan D]

Some gyros are invasive and take away the feel. Newer ones like AS3X can be set up to almost not be felt... The biggest thing is a lot of people add a gyro to bandaide or mask a bad aerodynamic set up. That's the wrong approach. I'm no expert so that's about all I can tell you.

Quick question with flying with gyros. I have never used one but curious about them.

My only concern is does it smooth it out too much? What I mean by that is when I'm coming in to land I can see if I have slowed the model up too much because its starts trying to drop a wing. This alerts me to react and add more power. My worry is that if a gyro reacts to that then I'm not going to know I'm close to stall speed...

[bandit]

At the risk of starting a gyro discussion, most gyros have three modes. The first is off, then normal and the last is called different things depending on the manufacturer. Usually 3D Flight mode of Heading Hold.

1. Off is just that "off". No effect on flight

2. Normal will only react to quick disturbances like turbulence. The higher the gain, the more dampening. If your wing tip starts to drop as you get close to stall, the gyro probably won't even see that so you will be fine. Most times you operate the gyro in this mode. It will slow stick response down a little depending on how high the gain is set.

3. Heading hold mode will attempt to maintain the attitude the plane was in when you released the stick. This mode will mask everything. It would attempt to keep your wing level even as you were stalling. Also, a potentially fatal situation would occur if you did not always use rudder in turns. Without rudder input, as you turned to the right for example, the gyro would start adding left rudder in an attempt to keep you going in the same direction. That would not be good.

[janmb]

Quick question with flying with gyros. I have never used one but curious about them.

My only concern is does it smooth it out too much? What I mean by that is when I'm coming in to land I can see if I have slowed the model up too much because its starts trying to drop a wing. This alerts me to react and add more power. My worry is that if a gyro reacts to that then I'm not going to know I'm close to stall speed...

Having dealt extensively with numerous different gyros for a few years now, I have to disappoint and say there's no simple answer to this.

The main mindset that's important when getting into gyros is to consider this something that needs to be studied and understood, and not just tossed in and expecting to work optimally/safely without any fiddling.

The primary aspect of gyro tuning is gain (how large a % of your total surface deflection the gyro is allowed to use). How much this is depends entirely on the model, how much throws you use, and also at what top speeds you choose to fly. Also, any given % is not necessarily translatable from one gyro system to another. In short, start low (20% or so) and carefully work your way up. Preferably you should have gain adjustable from your tx, but worst case, land, tune, fly again. You know you have gone past the limit when the model starts oscillating when you fly fast. Then dial back a tad and you're good.

The secondary, and what you are really asking about, is what most gyro systems call priority. (to what extent stick input overrides/temporarily reduces gyro gain). Far from all gyros let you adjust this at all, but some do. Overall, most gyros I've encountered have been fairly decent in this respect.

The third aspect is the relationship between your radio setup vs gyro. In short, most people find that they prefer slightly less expo (or more rates) when using a gyro vs when not. A gyro does NOT replace the need for expo or sensible rates, but most gyro systems add at least a tiny bit of cushioning, so whatever stick sensitivity you had before adding the gyro may feel a bit too soft.



As for the gyro masking feedback, yes it does. And this is definitely something to take into account. In my opinion this is not something to be feared, it is not that dramatic on most models, but yes, it is good to keep this in mind for sure. We had a pilot in our club trash his Goshawk several times trying to find sink rate, essentially slowing it down until it was completely stalled without any prior feedback what so ever. So yeah, this is a thing. The mere fact that you asked the question means you will be perfectly fine though - good luck!

edit: And along the same lines as bandit posted: generally stay away from heading hold modes, especially on jets.

[Carlbrainiac]

Yeah must admit I need to get more confident with rudder use. I do tend to be a bit bank and yank. Mainly because I'm nervous when adding rudder input while I still have an aileron input because I lost a model this way when it snap rolled into a spin due to me incorrectly applying rudder & aileron either too much or not at the right times. Always trying to improve my flying though especially now I'm getting more into scale flying. Just need to remember to try these things a few mistakes high first lol.

[janmb]

Yeah must admit I need to get more confident with rudder use. I do tend to be a bit bank and yank. Mainly because I'm nervous when adding rudder input while I still have an aileron input because I lost a model this way when it snap rolled into a spin due to me incorrectly applying rudder & aileron either too much or not at the right times. Always trying to improve my flying though especially now I'm getting more into scale flying. Just need to remember to try these things a few mistakes high first lol.

I would strongly recommend practicing rudder turns indeed. Especially during slow flight and landing patterns, low bank turns are much more scale, much more safe.

The simplest way to ease into this is to stop initiate your turns with aileron at all. Instead, while wings are still level, ease in a tad rudder. Not a ton, just a tad. And ease it in, never jerk. This will do two things (on 99% of all models I know): 1. Start yawing a bit, 2: Start rolling the same direction (without ever adding any aileron). Once this happens, apply a little elevator (less needed than you are used to), and opposite aileron as much as needed to keep the plan from rolling more than you want.

To exit the turn, ease out of the rudder and elevator, and keep/increase opposite ailerons to level out as you normally would.


(tons of examples in this video: https://youtu.be/y6w8y80aQG4 IIRC don't think I had a positive (same direction) aileron input on a single turn in those entire flights. Making turns on the brink of stalling would simply not be possible with a bank and yank technique)

[Carlbrainiac]

I would strongly recommend practicing rudder turns indeed. Especially during slow flight and landing patterns, low bank turns are much more scale, much more safe.

The simplest way to ease into this is to stop initiate your turns with aileron at all. Instead, while wings are still level, ease in a tad rudder. Not a ton, just a tad. And ease it in, never jerk. This will do two things (on 99% of all models I know): 1. Start yawing a bit, 2: Start rolling the same direction (without ever adding any aileron). Once this happens, apply a little elevator (less needed than you are used to), and opposite aileron as much as needed to keep the plan from rolling more than you want.

To exit the turn, ease out of the rudder and elevator, and keep/increase opposite ailerons to level out as you normally would.


(tons of examples in this video: https://youtu.be/y6w8y80aQG4 IIRC don't think I had a positive (same direction) aileron input on a single turn in those entire flights. Making turns on the brink of stalling would simply not be possible with a bank and yank technique)

Yeah I will practice it. Problem I have though and likely the reason I got into the bad habit of bank and yank I'd because the field I fly from is quite small so we have to make quite aggressive turns to avoid flying outside our boundaries. Hence applying a little gentle rudder and waiting for it to roll on a fast moving jet isn't really an option.
That being said I do like to keep it realistic so not like I'm doing 90 degree bank angles. Lol. I always keep my bank angles within sensible limits and just fly it how it looks right.