New Avios Mig 17 ?

[themudduck]

Sorry, I think its a great thing to say these things again. I didn't mean to come across as much of an a$$ as I just did...

I've also had the odd retraction (without the gear doors opening) but so far not in flight. Good idea on the spoon. I also have the 3d printed tail skid, great since I do balance tail heavy as you do...

Hey Evan, we're cool! Yeah today, when I inspected my plane after the belly landing today I saw that the gear had retracted without the inner doors opening - so the gear was jammed and it didn't want to re-open. After I got the plane back to the pits I was able to cycle it through and get it back to normal. But all those scrapes along the bottom were a pain in the ass. The spoon will fix that (if it ever happens again) and it looks cool.

Anyone else going to the Ejets/Ewarbirds event next weekend at the TORKS club near Columbus Ohio?

[xviper]

Someone was asking about what is the right size for the pilot figure?

[Phantom]

Hey guys,
I did a bunch of flights today, trying to get the balance point sorted out. Earlier this summer I was using an older-style Admiral 5000 (short and fat) pushed all the way forward … and with my timer set at 3 minutes I found that I had a very small safety margin with the battery. So I switched to the longer RoaringTop 6250 and that solved two problems - first I was able to move the battery back about an inch to where the Velcro strap could reach it, and second it gave me enough juice so I could make 2 aborted landings after I reach my 3 minute timer.

The battery is sitting very far forward, much further forward than what the battery tray seemed to be set up for. I balanced it per the manual, but I needed some up trim to fly level.
I was still having trouble with the bounce, even after practicing it for the past few weeks. I am very pleased with the way the plane flies, but during landing if you accidentally smack the nose gear the model will bounce back into the air. I've been trying and trying but I still get this bounce. Last weekend I had a near disaster with a big bounce that ended with a "saber dance" but I managed to save it.

So I was thinking maybe its nose heavy. Today I tried moving the 6250 battery backwards a little bit at a time, just to see how it would do.
Well, I found that it really made a big difference. With the battery pushed back, the plane is much easier to land.

Do this balance test: with the battery set back from the forward position, I found that if you tilt the model back on the gear it will just sit back and stay on the tail skid. if you just nudge the nose down, it will sit very lightly on the nose gear.
So in other words, position the battery so that the model is just resting very slightly on the nose gear, but it will tilt back and stay if you lift it on purpose.

You may think its tail heavy with it set up like this, but inverted flight testing proves that it is not tail heavy. When inverted it only needs the slightest touch of down elevator which means its basically neutral. It flies really well balanced like this (I don't need any up trim for level flight) and when its landing its really easy to hold the nose up (obviously) which solves the bounce problem. It does have a tendency to do "wheelies" when its taxing over bumps, but its not bad. Do not push the battery back to where it sits heavily on the tail, that's too far back. It needs to sit on the nose gear - just very lightly.

Something else I found from testing is that the flaps do not affect the attitude of the plane much - originally I had a little down trim set with the flaps but I removed almost all of it. With full flaps set, the elevator is trimmed down maybe 1/32" (maybe 1.5mm). That is just enough to help the plane avoid ballooning.

I hope it helps! Try flying this bird balanced like I suggest and see if you like the way it lands better!

I appreciate the info, even if it is slightly restated. I don't recall it, and so I'll just chock it up to you possibly being the first to consolidate it in one post.

Either way, as I was reading your post I was like the CG is too far forward!! Haha but you figured it out. Glad to hear that the Mig 17 is identical to the F-86 set up when it comes to balancing. I've never owned a Mig 15 but if I did, my first go to would be to set it up as my F-86. I had to learn that forward CG/bounce issue on my A-10, A-6, and my F-86. Lesson learned! I don't use that old pilot adage, "I'd rather be nose heavy than tail heavy", anymore. Sure she'll fly better nose heavy, but depending on the model she may be destroyed upon landing. So I had to change my ways, I get as close to CG as possible prior to the first powered flight.

I combine two techniques I figure this out, first is the landing gear, tricycle or tail dragger doesn't matter, I check to see how the model balances sitting on her gear with the battery installed. Now I know this is giving the engineers/design team a lot of credit, and that if all models were true to scale, this wouldn't be half as successful as I've found it to be, but this is step one, and I've found when combined with step two, that the medium between the two puts me within a few millimeters of true CG. Part two, is suck up the gear, install the battery, and give it an old fashion chuck. I usually chuck it towards the bed with pillows as a backstop. The lighter aircraft actually glide down to the bed, the heavier ones, greater than say 3lbs don't glide at all. What they do, if they are balanced is come forward and down keeping the fuselage level. Last step is the aerodynamic balancing known as trimming the flight surfaces during the maiden. I got too excited with my A-10, and glued all the bottom antennas on, so never got to the chuck test, cost me a couple of nose gears as I figured out that the CG was WAY too far forward in the manual.

[Phantom]

One more thing, I used to use the thickest part of the cord, or highest part of the wings camber on straight winged planes to guess as to a models CG, but I've found that not too be half as helpful for finding true CG as my method above.

[themudduck]

Just about all of the commercial models I've flown specify a CG that is too far forward in the manual. Its like that for a reason - a plane will generally fly pretty well nose heavy, which is what you want if you're selling models, especially if you have inexperienced pilots included in the mix. So its not a bad idea to start that way and move it back as you gain experience with the model, as opposed to starting tail-heavy and moving it forward.

That being said, I would like to see the manufacturers recommend a "starting" CG in the manual with the note that it should be moved back. 'Cause many don't realize this.

[patrick verlinden]

Small reminder : The MiG-17 cockpit set is still available! STL files if you can print it yourself, but also complete sets.
Please contact me at pat.verlinden@telenet.be

[Hardway]

Hi everyone!!! Patrick just shipped my order and sent me pics!!! His 3D stuff looks like a winner! I will post pics and update here when they get to Texas! Excited to add some details!!! Thanks Pat!!! Jerry

[gooniac33]

OMG!!!!! I love this plane!! its a pain to get in the car but what a pleasure to fly!! Here are my videos....also I have a "do it yourself" version of the afterburner if anyone is interested in how to do it...

[gooniac33]

Another one bites the dust. Sheesh, what is it with some kids not wanting to play nice in the sandbox lately?

Doesn't play well with others... gotta keep it on course... Love this plane and am so glad I spent the time to get it how I wanted! The gear doors being off have been a huge relief for me! No issues with funky gear actuation either... Loving it! Gotta get a couple more flights in before the airshow this weekend...

[EDF_Lover]

This is a little off-topic but I’m betting someone will be able to help me.

I hate RC landing gear. Now that I have that context established...

A friend at the club just bought the Avios MiG 17. He was raving about the gear retracts. So I bought a set, thinking it would be a great project to integrate them into one of the EDF models I have that had gear issues flying off our grass field (IE all of them!)

I got the retracts quickly from HobbyKing! And I started
studying them to see why they are so great. Obviously they are very different than most retracts, etc. All metal. Sturdy. Nice.

But wait! Only 2 conductors in the wires to the motors! And, where is the steering arm?

Yep. There is a special control board required. Location: Hong Kong. Ordered one. 3-9 days shipping. Can’t wait..

My actual questions:

Is there anything I need to know about connecting the special board to my receiver? I read something about these retracts perhaps needing a different voltage than usual. Do they just plug into a standard receiver and the board does the rest?

And, it looks like the steering servo mounts to the strut and swings up and down with the gear. Is that right?

Any other insights and random thoughts about these retracts would be greatly appreciated!

[Gilatrout]

Well, I'm annoyed. Was configuring the receiver, and when I plugged in battery... Nothing nada no beeps. It worked 5 min before, but no longer. I figure it is a bad ESC. At least it didn't happen in the air.

Looks good.though...

[themudduck]

This is a little off-topic but I’m betting someone will be able to help me.

My actual questions:

Is there anything I need to know about connecting the special board to my receiver? I read something about these retracts perhaps needing a different voltage than usual. Do they just plug into a standard receiver and the board does the rest?

And, it looks like the steering servo mounts to the strut and swings up and down with the gear. Is that right?

I can't help much with the question on the board (My PNP bird came with the board already installed) but I can tell you that everything plugs into a regular receiver and the board does the work of sequencing the gear. Although it seems to be finicky and so I cycle it each time I fly.

The steering servo is mounted on a metal plate (shaped like a "C") that is attached to the strut, so yes, it does swing up and down with the gear. It works well, but that plate can be bent in a hard landing and then the steering will be off-center. That happened to me and it was very easy to straighten it out - but I wasn't very happy with how easily it bent. I noticed HK sells that plate as a spare part. So I ordered one!

[EDF_Lover]

That’s exactly what I needed to know! Thanks!

Is there any chance you could post a picture of how the steering servo connects to the strut? I can imagine how to rig something but it would be great to see how Avioys did it.

Thanks do much!

[themudduck]

That’s exactly what I needed to know! Thanks!

Is there any chance you could post a picture of how the steering servo connects to the strut? I can imagine how to rig something but it would be great to see how Avioys did it.

Thanks so much!

Hey there lover ,


Sure, here are a few shots. Its not easy to photograph this, since its a small space and the servo is mounted to the back side of the strut.
But here you go.... the model is upside-down obviously, and the view is towards the tail.

(In the first pic, the doors are disconnected)

The black zip-ties that you can see lock down the retract to the floor and prevents the retract unit from being forced backwards in a hard landing.

[themudduck]

I printed "Superhero's" 3D-printed tail nozzle that he designed for the MIG (you can find it here on Thingiverse) and installed it this evening after a quick paint job.
It fit perfectly. Its very simple and looks great!

The original foam nozzle pulled off easily.

[Maxun]

Hey guys,
I did a bunch of flights today, trying to get the balance point sorted out. Earlier this summer I was using an older-style Admiral 5000 (short and fat) pushed all the way forward … and with my timer set at 3 minutes I found that I had a very small safety margin with the battery. So I switched to the longer RoaringTop 6250 and that solved two problems - first I was able to move the battery back about an inch to where the Velcro strap could reach it, and second it gave me enough juice so I could make 2 aborted landings after I reach my 3 minute timer.

The battery is sitting very far forward, much further forward than what the battery tray seemed to be set up for. I balanced it per the manual, but I needed some up trim to fly level.
I was still having trouble with the bounce, even after practicing it for the past few weeks. I am very pleased with the way the plane flies, but during landing if you accidentally smack the nose gear the model will bounce back into the air. I've been trying and trying but I still get this bounce. Last weekend I had a near disaster with a big bounce that ended with a "saber dance" but I managed to save it.

So I was thinking maybe its nose heavy. Today I tried moving the 6250 battery backwards a little bit at a time, just to see how it would do.
Well, I found that it really made a big difference. With the battery pushed back, the plane is much easier to land.

Do this balance test: with the battery set back from the forward position, I found that if you tilt the model back on the gear it will just sit back and stay on the tail skid. if you just nudge the nose down, it will sit very lightly on the nose gear.
So in other words, position the battery so that the model is just resting very slightly on the nose gear, but it will tilt back and stay if you lift it on purpose.

You may think its tail heavy with it set up like this, but inverted flight testing proves that it is not tail heavy. When inverted it only needs the slightest touch of down elevator which means its basically neutral. It flies really well balanced like this (I don't need any up trim for level flight) and when its landing its really easy to hold the nose up (obviously) which solves the bounce problem. It does have a tendency to do "wheelies" when its taxing over bumps, but its not bad. Do not push the battery back to where it sits heavily on the tail, that's too far back. It needs to sit on the nose gear - just very lightly.

Something else I found from testing is that the flaps do not affect the attitude of the plane much - originally I had a little down trim set with the flaps but I removed almost all of it. With full flaps set, the elevator is trimmed down maybe 1/32" (maybe 1.5mm). That is just enough to help the plane avoid ballooning.

I hope it helps! Try flying this bird balanced like I suggest and see if you like the way it lands better!

Rest the plane in a flap surface, install the battery and cockpit, the nose will go forward, open the cockpit move the battery back, and check as many times is required until the tail stay down with the nose up, then move the battery forward just enough for the nose will to touch the ground and you CG will be perfect. For a peace of mind after that move the battery foward just 10 mm then flight the plane should glide with 1/8 or 0 throttle and in landing flare should be ease. If the plane is imposible to flare in landing you are nose heavy, and will jump and jump in the of the runway do to the speed and ground effect, happy flying.

[Maxun]

This plane is amazing, Im a 3D giant scale pilot, and this is my second EDF, so I check the quality of the airplane, I'm a airline inspector with 40 years in my belt, so I know a few thinks.
The plane construccion is second to none, the QC is terrible, founded one wire from esc to motor disconnected, a piece of wood that supposed to hold the esc, flying around no glue in the dobler, so my advise is remove the esc holder completely with the 2 screws and hot glue the wire to the foam to secure esc, if this wood piece get loosed and end up in you blades you will be sorry. Servo link, lots of complains of people burning servos, this links are not designed for rotation, this are not helicopters links, this are hard case and the ball will not move that easy, this is only for geometry, the correct way to install this links is tie nut and screw and then back up until the screw rotate free on the ball, then use silicone in the end of the treath, do not use loctite that will eat you plastic, they did use some cain of locktite on the gear door, and the door are getting destroy, you can see it the this treath. My planes are set up to the hi standard of the comercial airliners so I will recommend this airplane to anyone is a fantastic bird. 2 more inspector here will get the same airplane today after they saw it flight. We love it. And if someone do some 3D printing upgrade, please posted in thingiverse.com for all of us, that is where I post my.
Avios Mig 17
Extreme flight Extra 300 170CC 125"
Extreme Flight Yak 100cc
FX79
Avios Tundra
Avios C-130
Skipper
Bush Mule
Volantex Ranger 2000 and 2400
Nano Goblin
Zohd Dart
Zohd XL
Dragonlink
Futaba
Taranis
Jumper T16
Crossfire
R
Frsky R9
Drones DJI Mavic, phantoms and aspire
Racing Drones, Betaflight, Inav, Arduplane

[EDF_Lover]

Thanks for the pictures!!!

[EDF_Lover]

I thought I’d “close the loop” on my posting about the landing gear control board. I just got a notification from Fedex International that the board will arrive tomorrow AM.

Chronologically speaking, this is impressive. I ordered it from Hobby King yesterday morning (the warehouse is in Hong Kong for this part). I paid $16 for 3-9 day Fedex.*

So, Hobby King must have jumped right on it. And, Fedex isn’t wasting any time either! So, “credit where credit is due!”

* Yes, $16 to ship a $10 part. But, it’s not that much more than what I typically pay to ship something, and it makes the delivery time a lot more predictable from Asia. I’ll just pretend that the part costs $100. What a deal!

[Hardway]

This plane is amazing, Im a 3D giant scale pilot, and this is my second EDF, so I check the quality of the airplane, I'm a airline inspector with 40 years in my belt, so I know a few thinks.
The plane construccion is second to none, the QC is terrible, founded one wire from esc to motor disconnected, a piece of wood that supposed to hold the esc, flying around no glue in the dobler, so my advise is remove the esc holder completely with the 2 screws and hot glue the wire to the foam to secure esc, if this wood piece get loosed and end up in you blades you will be sorry. Servo link, lots of complains of people burning servos, this links are not designed for rotation, this are not helicopters links, this are hard case and the ball will not move that easy, this is only for geometry, the correct way to install this links is tie nut and screw and then back up until the screw rotate free on the ball, then use silicone in the end of the treath, do not use loctite that will eat you plastic, they did use some cain of locktite on the gear door, and the door are getting destroy, you can see it the this treath. My planes are set up to the hi standard of the comercial airliners so I will recommend this airplane to anyone is a fantastic bird. 2 more inspector here will get the same airplane today after they saw it flight. We love it. And if someone do some 3D printing upgrade, please posted in thingiverse.com for all of us, that is where I post my.
Avios Mig 17
Extreme flight Extra 300 170CC 125"
Extreme Flight Yak 100cc
FX79
Avios Tundra
Avios C-130
Skipper
Bush Mule
Volantex Ranger 2000 and 2400
Nano Goblin
Zohd Dart
Zohd XL
Dragonlink
Futaba
Taranis
Jumper T16
Crossfire
R
Frsky R9
Drones DJI Mavic, phantoms and aspire
Racing Drones, Betaflight, Inav, Arduplane

Here is a source for 3D parts. Pat has them available.... ALSO!!! WELCOME to Hobby Squawk. Glad you are here! Jerry

Small reminder : The MiG-17 cockpit set is still available! STL files if you can print it yourself, but also complete sets.

Please contact me at

pat.verlinden@telenet.be