New FMS/Eflite Su-30 coming soon

[T-CAT]

I just need some help with setting up flaperons. I am using a DX18 and 12 channel Spectrum RX, and when I have full flap set, about 50 degrees, I have very little aileron. I'm thinking that I will lose roll control and am wondering whether I need to mix tailerons? If I do, are the stock servos ok for the tailerons? Also, can you increase aileron travel with full flap? Thanks!

Are you going with a turbine on this with a midline setup using the X45 ? I have two friends that did this.

[Hugh Wiedman]

Look, I'm not saying the Roaring Tops are bad batteries, from my tests, they do have a higher tested C than the Admirals I've been using (and I'm not saying Admirals are great-I just happen to have a load of them and they always balance charge great and have never puffed, in 60 of them I have). In fact, they are slightly less in price than the Admirals and weigh slightly less (30-50g) than a comparable Admiral. A fully charged 5500 70C RT and fully charged 6000 50C AD put out close to the same amps and watts on my meter. Both drop off about 20 Amps and 400 Watts of power as they get down to 50% charge, and I'm not locking the RT's in storage as I said, I'm going to fly the snot out of them.

My only real point is they're not any better than what I've been flying. In fact, I've ordered the 6250mah 35C RT's to try those out (man am I a gluton for punishment-now we all know why I'm always broke). Although in all my tests, I did notice a clear pattern, the lower the displayed C, the closer to the actual tested C. (1 of my E-Flight 3200mah 20C tested at 14C-likely a true 20C battery) The RT's are about 20 bucks cheaper than the Admirals and weigh slightly less. But 70C, not on your life. But as the RC Geek laid out in his discussion on Lipo's, 70C on that battery would be massive overkill. The SU-30 system requires about 120Amps. With a 5500mah battery, the required C rating would then be about 22C for that jet. The RT absolutely has at least that. I was just hoping for something from RT significantly better than what I've been using, and it isn't significantly better, but still good.

[Aussie1]

Are you going with a turbine on this with a midline setup using the X45 ? I have two friends that did this.

Yes, already set up with a X45. Just worried about roll control with full flap. I haven't had a chance to test fly it yet, so hopefully very soon!

[T-CAT]

Excellent! Good luck, man. If needed, I can get you in contact with my friends if you want any specific information regarding their conversion. Chances are that you've seen it already on RCgroups.

[Aussie1]

Excellent! Good luck, man. If needed, I can get you in contact with my friends if you want any specific information regarding their conversion. Chances are that you've seen it already on RCgroups.

Appreciate the offer! Iv'e done a few now including the FW F14 and that had tailerons as standard, so I think that I'll just go down that path.

[T-CAT]

No problem! Let us know how it all works out.

[JLambCWU]

Great to see your actual measurement numbers! No doubt the Admiral HD packs are an ENORMOUS improvement over their standard packs. I’ve owned about 20 admirals and of the few I have that are still flyable, I only fly them in my prop Warbirds pulling less amps now as they can barely get 80-90mm EDFs off the runway.

I don’t own any of the Admiral HDs, but flew lots of them while out at Joe Nall, specifically in the Freewing Thunderbird with the 1835 inrunner. Now I don’t know how they had been treated before I flew them, but they were relatively new and had matched cell charges without balancing. I found them to be good packs, but consistently came down warmer than the Roaring Tops I brought with me to fly at the show. The Admirals sagged in performance in the heat before the RTs did, and while not a lot different in the Thunderbird, the top speed and vertical performance wasn’t quite as good as the RTs.

I haven’t had a chance to fly the Admiral HDs in the SU-30, but would love to evaluate them in it in actual flight conditions.

I’ve never owned a power meter, but my good friend Tom does and has checked out many of the batteries we’ve tested at the field. Definitely true that most manufacturers WOEFULLY over rate the C rating on their batteries. With that said, my RTs have always had a lot of consistency unlike some other supposedly top end brands. We measured and flight tested a new Name brand, supposedly top notch graphene at AZ Electric Fest, and the performance was honestly appallingly bad. Come one, come all, we’ll honestly evaluate them.

RTs aren’t perfect, but have been the most consistent and powerful I’ve found in thousands of EDF flights now. I can’t tell you the number of times people have said.. “Your ..F-22, F-18, F-16, F-5 is WAY faster than mine, takes off faster, verticals better etc” then ask what power system I have in it, only to find out mine matches theirs. The difference, running quality high C rated packs, regardless of the brand.

I’m always looking for the best 6S performance and have found a clear winner in actual conditions. While your results on the Admiral make me optimistic for another choice and more performance, I’ve had bad luck with older Admirals quality. Newish packs dropping cells, causing LVC on two jets that couldn’t get back to the field/damaged etc. Furthermore, where I bought them offered me no support when I told them 3 of the 12 batteries had dropped cells in less than 6 months of use via the best practices. Again, RTs aren’t perfect either. I’ve had two of the 70C 5500 packs drop a cell now. The difference is that they were both immediately replaced in less than 2 weeks, and I haven’t had an issue since. No product is perfect.

Just tonight I had the chance to test out some new Spektrum smart packs. A power show with the twin 70mm SU-30 is a brutal test on Lipos. I’m happy to report that the 5000mah 100C Spektrums performed well, and certainly close in performance to my 1yr+ old 70C RTs. Going to run them hard as I get more opportunities to and will definitely post up what I find.

Very curious to see how you find the actual flight performance and difference between the Admiral and Roaring Tops in the SU-30 and 1835 F-16.

As an official disclaimer, I don’t work for any hobby site /battery vendor. I fly for the airlines and buy what I want.
I’ve paid for all of my RT packs and the rest. Because I wasn’t honestly sure, I just went and counted how many 6S 4000mah or bigger lipos I currently have/have tested. Less than half are Roaring Top, but they’re my absolute go to in my power hungry EDFs. Turns out I currently have 50.

OK, finally received some 5500mah 70C Roaring Tops...

But we all really know that proof is in the use of the Lipo in actual conditions. I also hooked up my trusty GT Power meter to all my jets to see how much Amps and Watts each were drawing. My SU-30 on the Admiral 6000 50C was at 116.5 Amps and 2862 Watts. On the Roaring Top 5500 70C it was down to 106.3 Amps and 2257 Watts. My F-16 with the upgraded 4068-1835kv inrunner was 110.2 Amps and 2446 Watts on the Admiral and 102.6Amps and 2315 Watts on the Roaring Top. To make matters worse, I could actually feel (and hear) more thrust coming off of both with the Admiral than with the Roaring Top. The Admiral is also about 50g heavier in weight.

I can't deny that JLamb's flights have plenty of power, and many others swear by the Roaring Tops. Aros uses them in his F-16 Artic Camo (with the same inrunner as mine) and Chris Wolff of RC Geek uses them exclusively in all his FW jets-but he uses the 6250 35C, and anyone else I know who uses them will only install Roaring Tops. I'm finally going to maiden the SU-30 on Thursday as the winds are finally predicted to be down to 15mph (they've been 25-30 or more for the last 3 weeks) so I'll get to test them out. I can just tell you that the Roaring Tops don't measure up (by actual test data) and you can easily feel the lower thrust even on the bench. It still has plenty of thrust, just not as much as with the Admirals (and I'm not pitching Admirals, I'm sure there are plenty of other great brands out there). I've been flying all my jets on the AD 6000 for the last 4 months, always felt they have plenty of power, but after hearing everyone say RT where best, I had to try them out. Well, I now have 8 new 5500 70C and they may go into permanent storage.

[Hugh Wiedman]

Great to see your actual measurement numbers!

Very curious to see how you find the actual flight performance and difference between the Admiral and Roaring Tops in the SU-30 and 1835 F-16.

Anyone out there have any "crow" I can eat for supper? Got the maiden in and 3 additional flights on the SU-30 and used the Roaring Top 5500mah 70C battery. It does fly better than the Admiral 6000 50C Pro's. A little more punch on take-off and a higher top end (at least that's what I felt). Also put the RT in my F-16 inrunner in 4 flights, and it too performed better than the Admiral's I've been flying on. So I readily admit that until something else comes along, those 2 will only get RT's for breakfast. I'll leave the Admiral's to my Avanti and Stinger 90. Next trial is in my 2 F4's, and I've also got a 6250mah 35C RT in the mail to try that out, as Chris (RC GEEK) says that's all he uses in the FW jets.

My initial "disappointment" when I received the RT's stemmed from "hoping" that my Progressive RC ESC meter would give an actual C of something like 30-35 on the RT's, so when it came in at 21-22, I was none too happy. That meter is very conservative on actual C, and they claim a battery testing at 30C is more likely closer to 45C. The highest tested C I had of 105 other batteries I have was 20, and the Admirals were around 18-19C, so I did have big hopes. But my GT Power meter is an even better measurement (but still no substitute for actual flight conditions) of output (wish I had a thrust meter of some sort). When I first tested the RT against the Admiral, the RT put out 10amps less and 350 watts less than the Admirals. I believed I was testing both at full charge, but I later learned that I picked up the wrong RT and it was only at 50% charge. Whoops, there I went flying off the handle before checking my testing methods. Re-tested a fully charged RT and on the SU-30, it was up to 122 amps and 2890 watts (about a 5% increase over the Admirals). In the F-16, it tested out even better, up an additional 9%. It performed that way in the air as well. Sorry that I gave out erroneous information there, but you guys should have expected that from me by now.

As far as the SU-30 maiden, this "heavy" jet has no business flying as well as it does. With flaperons programmed in (I fly off grass so thought it would help), it took off smoothly with a moderate roll out (thanks Roaring Top) and climbed easily. Very little trimming needed, except about 3% and 6% up on the elevator for the 2 flap deflections. Cruised easily at 50% and at full throttle was surprisingly quick. Climbed exceptionally well and was stable as a rock. Landing with flaps allowed a nice, slow nose up landing (haven't tried the air brake yet). As I mentioned in another post on "what did you fly", this jet has virtually no "pucker" factor. After the first go around (after trimming), I felt so comfortable with it I was able to do loops, rolls, split S's and Cuban 8's. Never have I done that on a maiden! Landed with 25% after 3 minutes, but did spend at least I/2 the flight at higher throttle values doing maneuvers. Can't wait to take it out again. Ended up flying it in 20mph headwinds, and this beast didn't blink an eye, although it didn't want to land and floated surprisingly easy for such a heavy bird (I'm sure it won't do that in calm winds). The twin RC Geek afterburners looked outstanding, as the LED's are fairly close to the end of the nozzle and bright even in daylight. Sorry, no pictures of that in flight, I don't have a dedicated cameral girl, unfortunately.

[Aussie1]

Excellent! Good luck, man. If needed, I can get you in contact with my friends if you want any specific information regarding their conversion. Chances are that you've seen it already on RCgroups.

Here are a few pics of my conversion, so far. I ended up reducing the flap travel, not using tailerons and now it still has plenty of aileron with full flap at about 40 degrees.Here is a video of the Freewing SU27 using flaperons, and from what I can gather, is the same as the Eflite SU30.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Myam...RhkTdcrfnHbNbQ

[T-CAT]

That video definitely shows some amazing thrust to weight ratio. The paint scheme FMS chose is phenomenal on the SU-30.

[PaulZ]

Congratulations on the successful maiden Hugh Wiedman ! Looks like the high gyro rates and flaperons worked as predicted.

[Hugh Wiedman]

Congratulations on the successful maiden Hugh Wiedman ! Looks like the high gyro rates and flaperons worked as predicted.

Worked EXACTLY as you predicted, many thanks for being the guinea pig. The only thing I haven't tried yet is the speed brake with the flaps. The headwind kicked up to 20mph on the last 2 flights so I felt the last thing I needed was to slow it down on landing any more than it did. But hit the speed brake as soon as it touched down so it still kind of looked cool! Have you experimented with the CG yet? Those 4 flights were at 132mm, in the middle of their recommended CG range. Felt reel good to me, but wonder if we move it back to say 140, the high alpha in flight might be even easier? No sense in me taking the risk, so why don't you try it and let me know so I don't have to be the guinea pig-at least you can handle it!

Seriously, thanks for all your great input. This was the first maiden that I felt completely at ease with and was able to fly it like I've had many sorties before. Boy, I'm itching to get it back out there as soon as possible. This may turn into my go-to jet. Hope I didn't just jinx myself.

[PaulZ]

Worked EXACTLY as you predicted, many thanks for being the guinea pig. The only thing I haven't tried yet is the speed brake with the flaps. The headwind kicked up to 20mph on the last 2 flights so I felt the last thing I needed was to slow it down on landing any more than it did. But hit the speed brake as soon as it touched down so it still kind of looked cool! Have you experimented with the CG yet? Those 4 flights were at 132mm, in the middle of their recommended CG range. Felt reel good to me, but wonder if we move it back to say 140, the high alpha in flight might be even easier? No sense in me taking the risk, so why don't you try it and let me know so I don't have to be the guinea pig-at least you can handle it!

I started with the CG in the middle of the range like you did and found it to be a bit too nose heavy. Now I fly with my 6s 5000 all the way back as far as it would go and like it there. Feels almost neutral when inverted. I am not sure where that puts it as I did not measure it. Just experimented by moving the battery back.

[Wild Man]

I would love to fly my Jets at just above sea level. How many of you have ever flown your EDF'S at or above 6,000 ft. MSL. You will find that your stall speed goes up dramatically, and the take off roll will more than double in length.Due to the higher Density alt. You will think there is some thing wrong with the performance of the motor, and will seem like your batteries or motor are lacking in power. As a Private Pilot we are always aware of the Three H'S. In the higher altitudes that I fly in I am grateful for the cold weather we have. and the air lower than a standard atmosphere 29.92

[gooniac33]

Anyone out there have any "crow" I can eat for supper? Got the maiden in and 3 additional flights on the SU-30 and used the Roaring Top 5500mah 70C battery. It does fly better than the Admiral 6000 50C Pro's. A little more punch on take-off and a higher top end (at least that's what I felt). Also put the RT in my F-16 inrunner in 4 flights, and it too performed better than the Admiral's I've been flying on. So I readily admit that until something else comes along, those 2 will only get RT's for breakfast. I'll leave the Admiral's to my Avanti and Stinger 90. Next trial is in my 2 F4's, and I've also got a 6250mah 35C RT in the mail to try that out, as Chris (RC GEEK) says that's all he uses in the FW jets.

My initial "disappointment" when I received the RT's stemmed from "hoping" that my Progressive RC ESC meter would give an actual C of something like 30-35 on the RT's, so when it came in at 21-22, I was none too happy. That meter is very conservative on actual C, and they claim a battery testing at 30C is more likely closer to 45C. The highest tested C I had of 105 other batteries I have was 20, and the Admirals were around 18-19C, so I did have big hopes. But my GT Power meter is an even better measurement (but still no substitute for actual flight conditions) of output (wish I had a thrust meter of some sort). When I first tested the RT against the Admiral, the RT put out 10amps less and 350 watts less than the Admirals. I believed I was testing both at full charge, but I later learned that I picked up the wrong RT and it was only at 50% charge. Whoops, there I went flying off the handle before checking my testing methods. Re-tested a fully charged RT and on the SU-30, it was up to 122 amps and 2890 watts (about a 5% increase over the Admirals). In the F-16, it tested out even better, up an additional 9%. It performed that way in the air as well. Sorry that I gave out erroneous information there, but you guys should have expected that from me by now.

As far as the SU-30 maiden, this "heavy" jet has no business flying as well as it does. With flaperons programmed in (I fly off grass so thought it would help), it took off smoothly with a moderate roll out (thanks Roaring Top) and climbed easily. Very little trimming needed, except about 3% and 6% up on the elevator for the 2 flap deflections. Cruised easily at 50% and at full throttle was surprisingly quick. Climbed exceptionally well and was stable as a rock. Landing with flaps allowed a nice, slow nose up landing (haven't tried the air brake yet). As I mentioned in another post on "what did you fly", this jet has virtually no "pucker" factor. After the first go around (after trimming), I felt so comfortable with it I was able to do loops, rolls, split S's and Cuban 8's. Never have I done that on a maiden! Landed with 25% after 3 minutes, but did spend at least I/2 the flight at higher throttle values doing maneuvers. Can't wait to take it out again. Ended up flying it in 20mph headwinds, and this beast didn't blink an eye, although it didn't want to land and floated surprisingly easy for such a heavy bird (I'm sure it won't do that in calm winds). The twin RC Geek afterburners looked outstanding, as the LED's are fairly close to the end of the nozzle and bright even in daylight. Sorry, no pictures of that in flight, I don't have a dedicated cameral girl, unfortunately.

hey man we all make mistakes. I have made flights with discharged packs... far too many times! Its easy to do and just gotta remember to check state of charge. In my experience Roaring Top batteries are amazing! I am the type that will always go off of the load more than an advertised C rating. My fave packs were 6s 35c 5800s (discharge rating of 203 amps) from these guys and they are amazing! I used them in my edfs for almost 2 years before relegating them to low amp draw duty. They are still in use today with an Eflite Carbon Z T-28. Glad to hear your maiden went well!

[JLambCWU]

Now you know why I was so skeptical about "what's his name" (who has been on the ignore list since) and his so called "FACTS". Obviously just a shill for that shop. Anyone who pushes a product as hard as he did, have dubious motives.
Your measurements are what I call "FACTS". Thank you for doing that although I'm sorry that you had to fork out money for the batteries before you could do it. I was actually going to buy one just to see for myself but you did it for me. I've been known to buy whole airplanes because someone boasted vehemently about how great it was, just to prove what a "croc-o-shat" it was.

🙄
So how does one nicely tell another to check themselves here?

Great write up Hugh. Hope you enjoy those Roaring Tops as much as the rest of us do! You’ll love that SU-30 more every flight. Does amazing for how heavy it is.



”Got the maiden in and 3 additional flights on the SU-30 and used the Roaring Top 5500mah 70C battery. It does fly better than the Admiral 6000 50C Pro's. A little more punch on take-off and a higher top end (at least that's what I felt). Also put the RT in my F-16 inrunner in 4 flights, and it too performed better than the Admiral's I've been flying on. So I readily admit that until something else comes along, those 2 will only get RT's for breakfast. I'll leave the Admiral's to my Avanti and Stinger 90. Next trial is in my 2 F4's, and I've also got a 6250mah 35C RT in the mail to try that out, as Chris (RC GEEK) says that's all he uses in the FW jets.

My initial "disappointment" when I received the RT's stemmed from "hoping" that my Progressive RC ESC meter would give an actual C of something like 30-35 on the RT's, so when it came in at 21-22, I was none too happy. That meter is very conservative on actual C, and they claim a battery testing at 30C is more likely closer to 45C. The highest tested C I had of 105 other batteries I have was 20, and the Admirals were around 18-19C, so I did have big hopes. But my GT Power meter is an even better measurement (but still no substitute for actual flight conditions) of output (wish I had a thrust meter of some sort). When I first tested the RT against the Admiral, the RT put out 10amps less and 350 watts less than the Admirals. I believed I was testing both at full charge, but I later learned that I picked up the wrong RT and it was only at 50% charge. Whoops, there I went flying off the handle before checking my testing methods. Re-tested a fully charged RT and on the SU-30, it was up to 122 amps and 2890 watts (about a 5% increase over the Admirals). In the F-16, it tested out even better, up an additional 9%.

[Hugh Wiedman]

[QUOTE=JLambCWU;n242160]
🙄
So how does one nicely tell another to go... themselves?

Great write up Hugh. Hope you enjoy those Roaring Tops as much as the rest of us do! You’ll love that SU-30 more every flight. Does amazing for how heavy it is.


Come on now, everyone is entitled to their likes and dislikes. I'm not say Roaring Tops are the best batteries out there (they may be for all I know), all I can say is they are better than the Admirals I was using (and that may not be saying that much). A friend of mine who is at Jet Jam swears by HRB's and he is one of the best EDF pilots I've ever seen, has flown virtually every EDF out there and been flying EDF's since "God was a Boy" (even though he is not that old-well compared to me everyone is "not that old"). Are HRB's the best, for him they are. Are Roaring Tops the best, for others they are. All that matters is what each feels comfortable about. No need to go to war over some stupid batteries. My only point in originally asking the question was to get some advice from guys with experience and tons more knowledge about this stuff than me (which is just about anybody). I've gotten great advice from everyone on the Squawk and xviper and JLambCWU have always steered me in the right direction. Thank you to both, your opinions matter greatly to me and I will continue to seek them out.

[JLambCWU]

[QUOTE=Hugh Wiedman;n242277]

🙄
So how does one nicely tell another to go... themselves?

Great write up Hugh. Hope you enjoy those Roaring Tops as much as the rest of us do! You’ll love that SU-30 more every flight. Does amazing for how heavy it is.


Come on now, everyone is entitled to their likes and dislikes. I'm not say Roaring Tops are the best batteries out there (they may be for all I know), all I can say is they are better than the Admirals I was using (and that may not be saying that much). A friend of mine who is at Jet Jam swears by HRB's and he is one of the best EDF pilots I've ever seen, has flown virtually every EDF out there and been flying EDF's since "God was a Boy" (even though he is not that old-well compared to me everyone is "not that old"). Are HRB's the best, for him they are. Are Roaring Tops the best, for others they are. All that matters is what each feels comfortable about. No need to go to war over some stupid batteries. My only point in originally asking the question was to get some advice from guys with experience and tons more knowledge about this stuff than me (which is just about anybody). I've gotten great advice from everyone on the Squawk and xviper and JLambCWU have always steered me in the right direction. Thank you to both, your opinions matter greatly to me and I will continue to seek them out.

Simply addressing “X viper”s name calling, and inference that I’m hocking sales based on ulterior motives.

👍🏼

[Hardway]

... fix it....

[gooniac33]

Now you know why I was so skeptical about "what's his name" (who has been on the ignore list since) and his so called "FACTS". Obviously just a shill for that shop. Anyone who pushes a product as hard as he did, have dubious motives.
Your measurements are what I call "FACTS". Thank you for doing that although I'm sorry that you had to fork out money for the batteries before you could do it. I was actually going to buy one just to see for myself but you did it for me. I've been known to buy whole airplanes because someone boasted vehemently about how great it was, just to prove what a "croc-o-shat" it was.

Yeah it boils down to using actual facts.... not just opinions

The actual truth is that there are a lot of batteries out there that are great values now! I don't just go off of brand or price but what actually works for me! To date China Hobby Line, HRB and Gens Ace are my fave brands. None of them have ever failed me and that is why I tell people about them. The HRB were a HUGE surprise! The price is low and the performance is incredible! $74.99 for a 6s 50c 6000 pack that an handle 150amp draws with out heating up or puffing...now that is what I call a value! And the other big surprise are the China Hobby Line Black Series!! I got them on sale back in july 2019 and they have yet to skip a beat! It doesn't surprise me because their packs have always been good to me but still I wanted to check to see that they were going to work out! If they didn't I wouldn't mention them... But they cost $55 for 6s 65c 5000mah packs!!!! And they too take that 150amp draw with no sweat... Roaring Tops are awesome packs! Some of my faves to date! The only issue is the cost... If I can get just as much performance out of packs that cost less then there is no need to go for them. If they go on sale again then I will consider them but no need at this time...